Canadian Idol canceled for 2009

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

Isn't that exactly how shows get cancelled? By no one watching.

Actually, according to this article, ratings were still pretty good. It's just the advertising market is drying up and the show would have cost too much to produce.

Also according to that article, this puts 650 people out of work. It's not GM going belly up, but it still sucks to be those 650 people.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

Because it's a shitty show,

So is Knight Rider. Were you celebrating when that show got cancelled?

and it does nothing for the music industry,

Neither does downloading songs for free over the internet, but where's the thread railing against that?

or for the real musicians who have to spend months on the road eking out a (mostly) meager living playing gigs and traveling from place to place hoping that they will become more popular.

If it means that much to you, why don't you go buy tickets to these gigs, or buy their albums, and support the musicians you consider "real", instead of complaining about a TV talent competition?

If that rude cocksucker Simon Cowell really wanted to break new musical talent, he should be helping these people,

Cowell (and Idol) are holding open auditions. Anyone who thinks they have real musical talent is free to show up and stand in line to audition. What more should Cowell be doing to help break new musical talent? Go directly door to door and ask people to sing for him?

not deluded idiots like William Hung sing glorified karaoke music.

Not sure what show you're watching, but Cowell clearly wants nothing to do with novelty acts like William Hung and Sanjaya.

Its. Just. A. TV. Show.

Seriously if you don't like it (and I don't) just don't watch it

What he said.

 

[Tomato]

whoo ho!!!

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Because it's a shitty show,

So is Knight Rider. Were you celebrating when that show got cancelled?

Knight Rider was a scripted show telling a story, not a glorified karaoke show with contestants who should know better being sold bullshit dreams of stardom. And Knight Rider was finding its way, and would have become a better show eventually-too bad the networks only care for the quick turn-around of a cheap reality TV show like Canadian Idol/American Idol.

and it does nothing for the music industry,

Neither does downloading songs for free over the internet, but where's the thread railing against that?

Downloading songs is just an excuse for the industry to cover up the fact that they don't know how to sell music properly anymore, and keep signing pop tarts like Britney 'Brit The Clit' Spears who knows only how to shake her clit and nothing else. If the kind of assholes in middle management ran record companies then they way they do now, people like Bob Dylan would have been dropped after just one failed album, and shitty 'artists' like Sanjaya would be making music. That's the problem, not downloading. When people download, they do it to find artists the can't hear on the radio or see on TV due to shitty shows like Canadian Idol. Only the Polaris Music Prize is a good enough judge of what is good talent, and more Canadians should be paying attention to that. But, like lemmings, we won't.

What to know the real truth about downloading? Check out this speech by Courtney Love and then try to defend the music industry: Courtney Love Does The Math

Better yet, here's a statement from a ordinary citizen on why he downloads music; To Whom It May Concern At The CRIA

If it means that much to you, why don't you go buy tickets to these gigs, or buy their albums, and support the musicians you consider "real", instead of complaining about a TV talent competition?

I do my part. Do you?

Cowell (and Idol) are holding open auditions. Anyone who thinks they have real musical talent is free to show up and stand in line to audition. What more should Cowell be doing to help break new musical talent? Go directly door to door and ask people to sing for him?

Cowell can set up a record label like everybody else, or he can get his rude ass out of the industry; either way, what he does isn't promoting talent, but being an asshole.

not deluded idiots like William Hung sing glorified karaoke music.

Not sure what show you're watching, but Cowell clearly wants nothing to do with novelty acts like William Hung and Sanjaya.

Then why did Sanjaya and Hung make it onto the show in the first place? Cowell should have been watching out, but wasn't, like the big rude asshole that he is.

Its. Just. A. TV. Show.

Seriously if you don't like it (and I don't) just don't watch it

What he said.

Why didn't the both of you follow your own advice and not watch Voyager or Enterprise? Because like my sig says, you can whine about Star Trek, but you sure as frack can't write an episode of it.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

Knight Rider was a scripted show telling a story, not a glorified karaoke show with contestants who should know better being sold bullshit dreams of stardom.

So, your argument is that a shitty scripted show is better than a shitty reality show? Because to me, shit is shit.

If the kind of assholes in middle management ran record companies then they way they do now, people like Bob Dylan would have been dropped after just one failed album, and shitty 'artists' like Sanjaya would be making music.

Sorry, I don't buy your line of thinking. There have been worthless pop acts as long as there's been pop music. This is not a new phenomenon.

You bring up Dylan, and I can think of plenty of his contemporaries who didn't deserve recording contracts: Donovan, Peter Paul & Mary, just to name a couple. Just because those terrible acts got to put out albums didn't prevent Dylan from releasing his own albums at the same time.

And Sanjaya has never released an album, and I doubt he ever will.

Courtney Love Does The Math

Sorry, I wouldn't trust Courtney Love to correctly add up 2+2.

Then why did Sanjaya and Hung make it onto the show in the first place? Cowell should have been watching out, but wasn't, like the big rude asshole that he is.

Idol (American or Canadian) is not a dictatorship. There are other producers who call the shots, frequently overruling Simon. If you watched the show, it was clear after a few weeks that Simon was completely disgusted with the Sanjaya "phenomenon".

And Hung never "made it onto the show". He auditioned, was rejected, and became a cult sensation through YouTube, completely outside of the show. I think they did have him back on the show once, because even they couldn't ignore how he had become a household name.

Why didn't the both of you follow your own advice and not watch Voyager or Enterprise? Because like my sig says, you can whine about Star Trek, but you sure as frack can't write an episode of it.

Why don't you go back and read what I actually wrote? I never said Idol was above criticism. I said I don't understand why people are so happy about a show getting cancelled.

I found Enterprise pretty worthless, but I didn't start a celebration thread when it got cancelled. By the time it got the axe, I wasn't watching it anymore, so why would I have cared? It's not like the show's mere existence was some kind of personal affront to me.

Same deal here: people who don't even watch the show are throwing a party, while several hundred people just lost their jobs. Seems kind of juvenile to me.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Knight Rider was a scripted show telling a story, not a glorified karaoke show with contestants who should know better being sold bullshit dreams of stardom.

So, your argument is that a shitty scripted show is better than a shitty reality show? Because to me, shit is shit.

Sorry, but I'll take a shitty scripted show over a shitty reality show. And as I said, Knight Rider was coming into its own, but the network was too impatient and just canceled it. Too bad they couldn't show any judgment about these reality shows.

If the kind of assholes in middle management ran record companies then they way they do now, people like Bob Dylan would have been dropped after just one failed album, and shitty 'artists' like Sanjaya would be making music.

Sorry, I don't buy your line of thinking. There have been worthless pop acts as long as there's been pop music. This is not a new phenomenon.

Yes, but those worthless pop acts wern't encouraged to have long careers like today's worthless pop acts are.

You bring up Dylan, and I can think of plenty of his contemporaries who didn't deserve recording contracts: Donovan, Peter Paul & Mary, just to name a couple. Just because those terrible acts got to put out albums didn't prevent Dylan from releasing his own albums at the same time.

To you, Donovan/Peter, Paul & Mary are worthless; to me, and millions around the planet, they signify the best of the '60's: Donovan's song about the Vietnam war still resonates today, as do Peter, Paul & Mary's songs. That you don't get them is your problem.

And Sanjaya has never released an album, and I doubt he ever will.

I don't care if he has or hasn't recorded one; he shouldn't be mentioned about at all by anybody, or have been given a chance by anybody.

Sorry, I wouldn't trust Courtney Love to correctly add up 2+2.

Her drug problem is none of your business; her frank and quite true talk about downloading is. Apparently you didn't see me also mention the other person who said the same thing as she did, or read what he said.

Then why did Sanjaya and Hung make it onto the show in the first place? Cowell should have been watching out, but wasn't, like the big rude asshole that he is.

Idol (American or Canadian) is not a dictatorship. There are other producers who call the shots, frequently overruling Simon. If you watched the show, it was clear after a few weeks that Simon was completely disgusted with the Sanjaya "phenomenon".

As I said above, Sanjaya should never have been allowed to blow up into the phenomenon that he was. As for Hung, a little quality control on the part of the producers would have been enough to make sure that his audition tape was never broadcast at all.

And Hung never "made it onto the show". He auditioned, was rejected, and became a cult sensation through YouTube, completely outside of the show. I think they did have him back on the show once, because even they couldn't ignore how he had become a household name.

Again, quality control would have made sure that Hung couldn't be seen on YouTube or any other Internet video site. All it would have taken was a legal letter to YouTube saying 'NO!' Videos have been prevented and taken off of You Tube before because of legal challenges, including one of mine (banned by Paramount & Marvel Comics) ; his should have been no different.

Why didn't the both of you follow your own advice and not watch Voyager or Enterprise? Because like my sig says, you can whine about Star Trek, but you sure as frack can't write an episode of it.

[Why don't you go back and read what I actually wrote? I never said Idol was above criticism. I said I don't understand why people are so happy about a show getting cancelled.

Maybe because it was/is crap?

I found Enterprise pretty worthless, but I didn't start a celebration thread when it got cancelled. By the time it got the axe, I wasn't watching it anymore, so why would I have cared? It's not like the show's mere existence was some kind of personal affront to me.

Judging by all the personal attacks on Berman & Braga, and all the bitching about the shows by everybody else, I never would have guessed. To be brutally frank, Enterprise was only crappy to you and people like you on the 'Net; to most other Trekfans who aren't on the 'Net all the time, it was a good show, and they liked it-enough to make it a ratings winner on Sci-Fi Channel in reruns.

Same deal here: people who don't even watch the show are throwing a party, while several hundred people just lost their jobs. Seems kind of juvenile to me.

Juvenile crap deserves juvenile hatred. As for this bunch losing their jobs...cry me a river; also, read the other posts on this forum about network executives and employees, and how people feel about them. There are millions of others across Canada out of work, with jobs more important than making a shitty talent show; save your sympathy for them. The Idol staff will get work on some other show, at some other network or production company, or maybe even at a music company. Many other people, like the GM workers, might not be so lucky.

 

[DeafPoet]

Why don't you go back and read what I actually wrote? I never said Idol was above criticism. I said I don't understand why people are so happy about a show getting cancelled.

I had a large rant all typed out and ready to go but I'm not going to post it because I realized I was trying to be objective about something that, to put it simply, just pisses me off.

I'm happy that Canadian idol was cancelled because the whole "phenomenon" makes me ill. It's a show marketed to morons who lap it up like mother's milk and the fewer of those there are on TV the better off we'll all be.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Word! That's all I got to say.

 

[DBR]

I wonder how many crew people and other staff are losing their jobs because of this, and why so many people here are thrilled about it.

Sorry, but I just don't get being happy about a show, any show, being cancelled. If you don't like it, just don't watch it.

I think I read in the paper ~650. But you can take comfort in knowing that Ben Mulroney was one of them.

 

[spoonunseptium]

Ah, if only. The only good thing to come out of American Idol was the hilarious iconography of Simon Cowell. Those jokes got old fast, though.


The most annoying thing about it is how the local news stations even have entire segments dedicated to the show. I mean, come on, I when I watch the news I want to be informed about what's going on in the world and in my area, not what some crappy wannabes are doing in Hollywood!

I wonder how many crew people and other staff are losing their jobs because of this, and why so many people here are thrilled about it.

Sorry, but I just don't get being happy about a show, any show, being cancelled. If you don't like it, just don't watch it.

I think I read in the paper ~650. But you can take comfort in knowing that Ben Mulroney was one of them.

and, granted, that is pretty sad. Editors, camera men, sound technicians, graphics people, publicists- all of them unemployed or underemployed.

I stopped watching American idol after the first one, and I got bored of auditions after a while because it became repititive. I just don't want to hear about Joe Dazzler on the 8:00 news.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

Juvenile crap deserves juvenile hatred. As for this bunch losing their jobs...cry me a river

Well, I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree. I don't see much purpose in expressing "juvenile hatred" towards anything, least of all a TV show. It's one thing to criticize, it's another thing to take delight in the misery of others, IMHO. I can only hope that if you find yourself personally affected by layoffs, no one is there to tell you "oh, cry me a river".

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Ah, if only. The only good thing to come out of American Idol was the hilarious iconography of Simon Cowell. Those jokes got old fast, though.


The most annoying thing about it is how the local news stations even have entire segments dedicated to the show. I mean, come on, I when I watch the news I want to be informed about what's going on in the world and in my area, not what some crappy wannabes are doing in Hollywood!

I wonder how many crew people and other staff are losing their jobs because of this, and why so many people here are thrilled about it.

Sorry, but I just don't get being happy about a show, any show, being cancelled. If you don't like it, just don't watch it.

I think I read in the paper ~650. But you can take comfort in knowing that Ben Mulroney was one of them.

and, granted, that is pretty sad. Editors, camera men, sound technicians, graphics people, publicists- all of them unemployed or underemployed.

I stopped watching American idol after the first one, and I got bored of auditions after a while because it became repetitive. I just don't want to hear about Joe Dazzler on the 8:00 news.

Juvenile crap deserves juvenile hatred. As for this bunch losing their jobs...cry me a river

Well, I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree. I don't see much purpose in expressing "juvenile hatred" towards anything, least of all a TV show. It's one thing to criticize, it's another thing to take delight in the misery of others, IMHO. I can only hope that if you find yourself personally affected by layoffs, no one is there to tell you "oh, cry me a river".

Oh, but I do feel for people that are unemployed: I feel for the staff of the show The New Music that was canceled by CTVGlobemedia (the owner of both Much Music, which aired The New Music, and CTV, which aired Canadian Idol) because it wasn't the reality TV sludge that airs on Much Music, MTV and CTV, but was about getting into the music itself. Those people did good work by doing a great music journalism show, not a crappy reality TV show. For them I feel sorry. And as before, I feel for the hundreds of people across Canada and the United States who will be out of work in the New Year.

But don't worry: Canadian Idol is only going off of the air for 2009; in 2010, the same people will be back, hard at work, making people throw up watching idiots try to sing. But what of The New Music staffers? What will they do? What of the viewers who loved The New Music and who depended on it to inform them of the true world of music? Can you answer that?

 

[CaptainHawk1]

First of all you're in Canada so nobody really gives a shit, sorry.

Second as far as Idol is concerned, you're deluding yourself in your thinking that it's not furthering the music industry because it certainly is. The goal of the Music Industry is to make money, period, just like any other industry. Again, your perception is skewed because you're in Canada. US Idol has the equivalent of more than the entire population of Canada watching every week so I can understand why percentage wise, even a successful Idol in Canada can't sustain itself with ad-revenues.

I don't really understand why every jackass in a garage band that's playing gigs for free beer is any more qualifed for fame than someone who tries out for Idol. The only thing that matters is having a marketable product to the Industry. And if you actually watched the show, you'd see that there are a lot of contestants who have worked hard in music but haven't gotten noticed and Idol is their shot.

You come from a perspective of someone who doesn't watch the show and I didn't either until four years ago and I actually found out that I liked it. Sanjaya is a poor example because he was actually very good until he started getting to the rounds where he was being voted on by the viewers and his popularity was an aberration for a few reasons: One, during the early stages (post round of 12) there were worse singers than him. Then people started feeling sorry for him and he did become a novelty and eventually he wound up getting knocked out (and rightfully so). Hung was knocked out at the tryout audition and as was pointed out, became a sensation on YouTube becasue he was a buffoon which speaks volume about the state of entertainment today and nothing necessarily about Idol and the Music Industry.

Stop carrying the torch for ENT because it has the same crappy ratings on SciFi that it did on UPN. The difference is that now its in reruns so it doesn't cost anything to produce and it's on a niche market where 2.5 million viewers per week is considered successful. Nothing against ENT, but facts is facts.

For me, being in a country that actually matters when it comes to media, what I appreciate about the show is that you get to watch people with dreams and talent start from nothing and work their way up based upon their talent become successful. There is something very American about that concept. It's why baseball works here and not in Canada. The U.S. is still a meritocracy unlike Canada which is a quasi-socialist state and your attitude about the working-class bands struggling and deserving more than an artist who actually has a product that people want is indicative of a socialist mentality. All I see in this thread is jealousy and resentment and then perverse pleasure and gloating because something that was successful has failed. That's pretty fucked up.

You're also approaching Idol as if every no talent hack and his brother has achieved fame and success from it and that's simply not the case. The Sanjayas and the Hungs are anomalies and are simply a product of the Internet generation and their 15 minutes usually is up very quickly. Also, part of the appeal of the show in the beginning is the terrible auditions which are pretty entertaining. It is TV show first and it does need to appeal to wide audience.

Furthermore, it's rather insulting to suggest that anyone who enjoys Idol is a moron. Just because you're resentful of the success doesn't mean it's for morons.

-Shawn

 

[stoneroses]

hallelujah! Canada sees the light

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

For me, being in a country that actually matters when it comes to media, what I appreciate about the show is that you get to watch people with dreams and talent start from nothing and work their way up based upon their talent become successful. There is something very American about that concept. It's why baseball works here and not in Canada. The U.S. is still a meritocracy unlike Canada which is a quasi-socialist state and your attitude about the working-class bands struggling and deserving more than an artist who actually has a product that people want is indicative of a socialist mentality.

I honestly don't think it's a Canadian thing. I see this attitude from pretty much everybody. I think most people enjoy dumping on reality shows like Idol because it makes them feel smarter than the average TV viewer. But it's mathematically impossible for ALL those people to be smarter than the average viewer. Meaning, a lot of them are below the curve despite what they want to believe.

And if you actually watched the show, you'd see that there are a lot of contestants who have worked hard in music but haven't gotten noticed and Idol is their shot.

Also true, there are plenty of contestants who had their own bands before Idol, and write all their own songs (David Cook and Chris Daughtry spring to mind). They're not all a bunch of Britney/Mariah/Christina-wannabes.

Stop carrying the torch for ENT because it has the same crappy ratings on SciFi that it did on UPN. The difference is that now its in reruns so it doesn't cost anything to produce and it's on a niche market where 2.5 million viewers per week is considered successful. Nothing against ENT, but facts is facts.

There was a brief time when Enterprise and American Idol were on opposite each other. And while Idol has big flaws, it's still capable of producing more drama, suspense, excitement and fun than Enterprise ever could. To me it was a pretty easy choice between watching Idol and dreary, monotonous Enterprise episodes.

I don't even understand the suggestion that Enterprise is a "smarter" show than Idol. For the most part, Enterprise's plots were simple, straight-line stories with no real twists or turns. I don't know where this idea comes from that it takes a lot of brain power to watch/understand Enterprise.

 

[firehawk12]

I think people see Idol as a threat to scripted programming. The more successful it is, the less incentive there is to do scripted drama. And no doubt AI has all the elements that make reality TV interesting, but it'll never be able to do the same things that a show like House or 24 (I can't think of any other Fox shows) can do.

Interesting note though - from the original article linked, AI USA is cutting its "charity" show in order to cut costs.

 

[Kelthaz]

I think people see Idol as a threat to scripted programming. The more successful it is, the less incentive there is to do scripted drama. And no doubt AI has all the elements that make reality TV interesting, but it'll never be able to do the same things that a show like House or 24 (I can't think of any other Fox shows) can do.

Exactly. If American Idol (or Canadian Idol) could exist in a vacuum without affecting the rest of the TV market I would be fine with it airing. Of course, that's not how it works. I miss the days when TNG, Seinfeld, and Cheers were the big ratings hits and networks were trying to emulate them.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

There are a lot of threats to scripted programming. Internet, video games, DVD, Blu-ray, MP3, whatever. People aren't bailing on TV because networks are putting on reality shows--the networks are putting on reality shows because people are bailing on TV.

The audience is eroding and the networks don't have much choice but to put on cheaper programming to turn a profit. Especially when one episode (one episode!) of a scripted series can cost $1-2 million to produce these days.

If you really want to help endangered scripted programming, turn off your computer, your iPod, your PS3, and sit in front of your TV all night. I really don't think anyone will do that, though. I like having a lot of choices for entertainment and I'm sure everyone else does, too. But we have to accept the consequence of this, which is that scripted shows are getting less and less cost-effective by the day.

 

[firehawk12]

I'm sure Idol's costs are up there - which is why they're making cut backs. At the very least, the judges and the hosts must make a large salary and then you need to maintain the voting infrastructure (assuming that voting is legitimate).

And sure, other forms of entertainment taking precedence - but in the realm of TV production, I'm sure they look at the trends within their own medium. I still think we're living in a serialized television bubble because of the success of Lost. Remember that pretty much every network has their own talent-based reality show now... I'll just leave it up to other people to decide whether that's good or bad.

 

[FordSVT]

First of all you're in Canada so nobody really gives a shit, sorry.

This doesn't get a warning in TV&Media?

Second as far as Idol is concerned, you're deluding yourself in your thinking that it's not furthering the music industry because it certainly is. The goal of the Music Industry is to make money, period, just like any other industry.

Funny how music industry revenues keep falling and American Idol contestants have mediocre to non-existent careers with minimal album sales with few exceptions. Some help it is.

Again, your perception is skewed because you're in Canada. US Idol has the equivalent of more than the entire population of Canada watching every week so I can understand why percentage wise, even a successful Idol in Canada can't sustain itself with ad-revenues.

I'm pretty sure we're aware why it's being cancelled, nothing skewed here but your poor attitude.

I don't really understand why every jackass in a garage band that's playing gigs for free beer is any more qualified for fame than someone who tries out for Idol. The only thing that matters is having a marketable product to the Industry.

Not necessarily more qualified, but probably more deserving. Not much different from someone who works to make their first million dollars and someone who wins it. Sing a bit of church choir, stand in line for half a day, sing, get your ticket if you're lucky. Hooray for the star making machine.

And if you actually watched the show, you'd see that there are a lot of contestants who have worked hard in music but haven't gotten noticed and Idol is their shot.

A fair point, but still irrelevant since every Idol contestants except maybe three have had poor musical careers anyways.

For me, being in a country that actually matters when it comes to media, what I appreciate about the show is that you get to watch people with dreams and talent start from nothing and work their way up based upon their talent become successful. There is something very American about that concept. It's why baseball works here and not in Canada. The U.S. is still a meritocracy unlike Canada which is a quasi-socialist state and your attitude about the working-class bands struggling and deserving more than an artist who actually has a product that people want is indicative of a socialist mentality. All I see in this thread is jealousy and resentment and then perverse pleasure and gloating because something that was successful has failed. That's pretty fucked up.

I'm sorry, I didn't think this was TNZ. Enough with the political and completely untrue bullshit, OK? Yeah, Canadians don't like baseball because we don't appreciate hard work and we're socialist. What is hockey, a communist sport? What are you going on about here?

You're also approaching Idol as if every no talent hack and his brother has achieved fame and success from it and that's simply not the case. The Sanjayas and the Hungs are anomalies and are simply a product of the Internet generation and their 15 minutes usually is up very quickly. Also, part of the appeal of the show in the beginning is the terrible auditions which are pretty entertaining. It is TV show first and it does need to appeal to wide audience.

I'm certainly not under the impression that every no talent hack and his brother has achieved fame and success from it, I'm under the impression that even the ones with talent got no success from it. What's Clay Aitken doing now? Singing at birthday parties?

Furthermore, it's rather insulting to suggest that anyone who enjoys Idol is a moron. Just because you're resentful of the success doesn't mean it's for morons.
-Shawn

I don't think anyone who enjoys Idol is a moron, I just think the show features bad music, mediocre performers, and a bunch of buffoons for hosts. I certainly don't resent anyone's success.