"Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

[Ezri II]

I didn't realize that Neelix and Kes's relationship could be seen as unseemly until sometime after the whole series was done, and I could see that Kes was really a child when Neelix met her.

Kes was as young adult by Ocampan standards. Yes there was a wide range in age/experience between her and Neelix which is why the relationship didn't last but Kes was not a child.

Not a childs body, but a childs mind when Neelix did meet her.

 

[kimc]

I didn't realize that Neelix and Kes's relationship could be seen as unseemly until sometime after the whole series was done, and I could see that Kes was really a child when Neelix met her.

Kes was as young adult by Ocampan standards. Yes there was a wide range in age/experience between her and Neelix which is why the relationship didn't last but Kes was not a child.

Not a childs body, but a childs mind when Neelix did meet her.

You're thinking in human, not Ocampan terms.

 

[Ezri II]

Kes was as young adult by Ocampan standards. Yes there was a wide range in age/experience between her and Neelix which is why the relationship didn't last but Kes was not a child.

Not a childs body, but a childs mind when Neelix did meet her.

You're thinking in human, not Ocampan terms.

With Kes and Neelix, and the whole of the crew of Voyager. Who on that crew would you say had the most simple understanding of life and there role with society.

Kes was on the ship, was it her freewill to stay on Voyager or was it Neelix? Kes was granted some rights on Voyager, but they were moderated at a level of a passive teenager. Janeway mothered Kes, Janeway was the captain with the rest of the crew. Now ask, who was more like a child during the time Kes and Neelix had their first meeting.

 

[exodus]

I didn't realize that Neelix and Kes's relationship could be seen as unseemly until sometime after the whole series was done, and I could see that Kes was really a child when Neelix met her.

Kes was as young adult by Ocampan standards. Yes there was a wide range in age/experience between her and Neelix which is why the relationship didn't last but Kes was not a child.

Not a childs body, but a childs mind when Neelix did meet her.

Nope, they did explain a few times that an Ocampians mind matures at a much faster rate than a regular humans. It would have to concidering they live way, way less that any humanoids life time.

 

[Jeri]

Did Kes actually say at one point that she had been a child? I seem to remember her saying something like that.

 

[exodus]

Not a childs body, but a childs mind when Neelix did meet her.

You're thinking in human, not Ocampan terms.

With Kes and Neelix, and the whole of the crew of Voyager. Who on that crew would you say had the most simple understanding of life and there role with society.

Kes was on the ship, was it her freewill to stay on Voyager or was it Neelix? Kes was granted some rights on Voyager, but they were moderated at a level of a passive teenager. Janeway mothered Kes, Janeway was the captain with the rest of the crew. Now ask, who was more like a child during the time Kes and Neelix had their first meeting.

Neelix was.

Neelix was planning on taking off after saving Kes. It was Kes who maturely suggested it would be wrong to not return the favor and help the Voyager crew.

 

[kimc]

Did Kes actually say at one point that she had been a child? I seem to remember her saying something like that.

I remember a scene where she referred to herself as young with a lot more to see and learn. The same can be said for any young adult. I don't recall her referring to herself as a child though.

 

[exodus]

Did Kes actually say at one point that she had been a child? I seem to remember her saying something like that.

I remember a scene where she referred to herself as young with a lot more to see and learn. The same can be said for any young adult. I don't recall her referring to herself as a child though.

No need, we saw what "child Kes" looked like in "Before & After".(remember her on Ocampa w/ her father in the garden)
So even by Ocampian standards she was a young lady when Voyager saves her, not a "child".

 

[Gojirob]

Why, the whole ep is open to parody : http://www.southroad.com/brightfame/stories/whereeveryfuryknowsyourname.html

 

[Jeri]

Well, ok, if you all say so.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.

Saying you still have a lot to learn is humility, not childishness.

 

[Ezri II]

And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.

Saying you still have a lot to learn is humility, not childishness.

REALLY !!!

 

[exodus]

And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.

She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.

 

[Ezri II]

And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.

She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.

Pre-teen is under 13!! That would have made her the youngest member on Voyager. Darn, when WESTLEY CRUSHER was a pre-teen on Enterprise Picard said *NO CHILDREN ON THE BRIDGE*

 

[exodus]

And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.

She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.

Pre-teen is under 13!! That would have made her the youngest member on Voyager. Darn, when WESTLEY CRUSHER was a pre-teen on Enterprise Picard said *NO CHILDREN ON THE BRIDGE*

Do you count Niomi Wildman or only main cast members?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.

She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.

Oh I had forgotten that, thanks!

It's a good example of how human terminology and expectations don't always apply to other species. If the Ocampan formed intimate relationships at the age Kes is on VOY then that is all that matters as to her maturity IMHO.

 

[Ezri II]

She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.

Pre-teen is under 13!! That would have made her the youngest member on Voyager. Darn, when WESTLEY CRUSHER was a pre-teen on Enterprise Picard said *NO CHILDREN ON THE BRIDGE*

Do you count Niomi Wildman or only main cast members?

Niomi Wildman was not born before Neelix and Kes were seeing each other for the first time.
You have jumped a few seasons.

 

[exodus]

And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.

She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.

Oh I had forgotten that, thanks!

It's a good example of how human terminology and expectations don't always apply to other species. If the Ocampan formed intimate relationships at the age Kes is on VOY then that is all that matters as to her maturity IMHO.

I honent don't think Neelix and Kes were ever "intimate" in their relationship. The Elogium marked puberty, so Kes would have no desire for intercourse before then. Neelix was lonely but he wasn't a rapist. During the ep. "Elogium" Kes asks Neelix if he would want to be her mate. Asking it that way seemed to confirm they weren't sexually active together.

 

[Lynx]

And don't forget she was capable of becoming a mother. Hardly a child.

She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.

Oh I had forgotten that, thanks!

It's a good example of how human terminology and expectations don't always apply to other species. If the Ocampan formed intimate relationships at the age Kes is on VOY then that is all that matters as to her maturity IMHO.

I agree. The Ocampa seem to be somewhat different than humans in some aspects and can't be judged by human standards.

As for Kes, she was something equivalent to an 18-25 years old in "Caretaker".

 

[exodus]

She wasn't capable of having children until she was 4 or 5, the Elogium was premature remember.

I guess Kes was a pre-teen.

Oh I had forgotten that, thanks!

It's a good example of how human terminology and expectations don't always apply to other species. If the Ocampan formed intimate relationships at the age Kes is on VOY then that is all that matters as to her maturity IMHO.

I agree. The Ocampa seem to be somewhat different than humans in some aspects and can't be judged by human standards.

As for Kes, she was something equivalent to an 18-25 years old in "Caretaker".

If we just established Kes hasn't gone thru puberty yet, how could she be 18-25 in "Caretaker"?