What would Kirk make of Data?

[Red Ranger]

It's really impossible to ever know whether another being is conscious or not - is it self-aware, or is it just programmed very well to pretend to be self-aware?

For me, the idea of Data's 'journey' was nullified when he only 'evolved' by adding the emotion chip. It spoke to me that he had NO potential for self-growth short of bolting more parts on, which lends itself to the 'programmed robot' interpretation and not the 'lifeform with individual rights' interpretation. I think this ruined his arc from a storytelling perspective.

Anticitizen:

I actually somewhat agree with you on this. I wasn't crazy about the emotion chip, either. However, I contend that Data, over time, was developing emotions, just of a different sort than humans. And then, the emotion chip jump-started them.

For example, I pointed in my post above to The Most Toys as evidence that Data has a sense of right and wrong and of desiring revenge. And I also think that in Redemption, Pt. II, Data enjoys an inward sense of revenge, as well as moral outrage, and just plain old delight, when he's confronted by Lt. Cmdr Hobson's bigotry, but refuses to let him off the hook by not serving as his first officer, even though he didn't want to, and explicitly said so to Data.

I also think of the emotion chip as no more contrary to being human than a person who needs medication for a condition to stay alive, or to keep his brain chemistry in balance. Those are "add-ons" to the biochemical devices called human beings.

Red Ranger

 

[BillJ]

The attitude that an android or hologram can't be a lifeform was challenged by the existence of Data and the Doctor. Those who refused to acknowledge that might as well join the Flat Earth Society.

Is my membership card in the mail?

I actually love how people will stoop to insulting others intelligence when the argument isn't going their way.

"Missah Red Ranger... yous so is smart for thinkin' that teh Missah Data is a person", is that the reply you're looking for?

Again, how does an android longing to be human cheapen what it means to be human? Were any of the characters' humanity cheapened as a result of the existence of Data? I don't think you can realistically come up with an example. Oh, maybe you can come up with a convoluted example, but that would cheapen the debate.

I would think his longing to be human cheapens the lives of every man and woman who serve aboard ships not named Enterprise. It deprives them of a tool that would be useful in deep space exploration.

I also think of the emotion chip as no more contrary to being human than a person who needs medication for a condition to stay alive, or to keep his brain chemistry in balance. Those are "add-ons" to the biochemical devices called human beings.

But they don't need those to understand what emotions are and to feel them, "We're going to install some more grey matter so you can feel emotion". That would be more akin to what the emotion chip represents.

The fact of the matter is that the JAG would have been disbarred had she made this ruling in real life. It's non-sense. At best she would have been the JAG of the basement urinals at the Klingon embassy. Hell, I'm still wondering why a human rights hearing would be handled by a member of the military in the first place.

 

[Red Ranger]

The attitude that an android or hologram can't be a lifeform was challenged by the existence of Data and the Doctor. Those who refused to acknowledge that might as well join the Flat Earth Society.

Is my membership card in the mail?

I actually love how people will stoop to insulting others intelligence when the argument isn't going their way.

"Missah Red Ranger... yous so is smart for thinkin' that teh Missah Data is a person", is that the reply you're looking for?

Again, how does an android longing to be human cheapen what it means to be human? Were any of the characters' humanity cheapened as a result of the existence of Data? I don't think you can realistically come up with an example. Oh, maybe you can come up with a convoluted example, but that would cheapen the debate.

I would think his longing to be human cheapens the lives of every man and woman who serve aboard ships not named Enterprise. It deprives them of a tool that would be useful in deep space exploration.

I also think of the emotion chip as no more contrary to being human than a person who needs medication for a condition to stay alive, or to keep his brain chemistry in balance. Those are "add-ons" to the biochemical devices called human beings.

But they don't need those to understand what emotions are and to feel them, "We're going to install some more grey matter so you can feel emotion". That would be more akin to what the emotion chip represents.

The fact of the matter is that the JAG would have been disbarred had she made this ruling in real life. It's non-sense. At best she would have been the JAG of the basement urinals at the Klingon embassy. Hell, I'm still wondering why a human rights hearing would be handled by a member of the military in the first place.

BillJ:

Actually, your membership card is coming your way via passenger pigeon. It'll get there soon! Sorry if you were insulted by that comment -- I was being sarcastic! But have fun sailing those flat seas, pal!

As for Louvois being disbarred, you're thinking in 20th century terms again. It's clear that while Starfleet has a military role and function, it's not solely a military organization. Certainly there must have been changes in legal procedure that don't fit your preconceived notions of the rules of a semi-military tribunal.

After all, despite some recent regression in military justice, they aren't kangaroo or drumhead courts anymore.

Oh, that whole "a ship with a Data on board" is such a canard. Guess you didn't understand that The Measure of a Man was an allegory against slavery. What if there were a whole race of androids? Should they be impressed into Starfleet simply because of their extraordinary abilities? Or should they be allowed to join Starfleet of their own free will? Or pursue any other choice, like going into politics, business, or medicine. I support the latter.

Let's remember that Soong didn't create Data for Starfleet. He created him for many reasons, to advance cybernetics and to introduce a new form of life. Data chose to join Starfleet! He shouldn't be penalized for that choice by being subjected to a dangerous experiment.

Also, Maddox may not have been able to create a race of Datas. He might have just succeeded in making substandard copies of Data that didn't have his capacity for original thought. I submit that many times, he demonstrated that ability, like choosing to join Starfleet in the first place, or violating Picard's orders to withdraw in Redemption, Pt. II to enact his plan which unmasked the Romulans' intervention in the Klingon Civil War.

I have to say the only argument in that ep that almost swayed me was when Maddox posed the hypothetical: What if the Enterprise computer refused a refit? And I was only slightly convinced when Maddox said he wouldn't be getting an argument on experimenting on Data if he was a box with wheels.

I predict that if we ever do create creatures like Data, more people will be like you and Maddox, unfortunately, slaves to their own narrow way of thinking, and therefore enslaving a new life form.

As I said, I'm not crazy about the emotion chip. I can kind of agree with your point on that. But generally, I see it more like a pacemaker. And psychotropic drugs can help people's gray matter be in balance and understand life in a calmer way, so I see that as a parallel to the emotion chip.

One more thing that's rather telling: Your use of semi-Stepinfetchit dialogue to claim I want you to be impressed by my opinion and agree with me. You have an opinion, and I disagree strongly with it. It's as simple as that. But it's ironic you'd use such an outdated stereotypical speech pattern, a form of speech used to denigrate another group of people, to decry my opinion. Hmm! I see a pattern emerging here!

Red Ranger

P.S.: I do want to remind everyone that we are quibbling over fictional characters, representing things that may never come to pass! Just saying!

 

[BillJ]

Let's remember that Soong didn't create Data for Starfleet. He created him for many reasons, to advance cybernetics and to introduce a new form of life. Data chose to join Starfleet! He shouldn't be penalized for that choice by being subjected to a dangerous experiment.

I watched all of TNG, I don't remember any specific reasons given for the creations of Lore and Data.

I have to say the only argument in that ep that almost swayed me was when Maddox posed the hypothetical: What if the Enterprise computer refused a refit? And I was only slightly convinced when Maddox said he wouldn't be getting an argument on experimenting on Data if he was a box with wheels.

So the shell helps foster the illusion that he is sentient? Perhaps Soong had other motives and hoped making his androids human in appearance would make them easier to integrate into society?

Oh, that whole "a ship with a Data on board" is such a canard. Guess you didn't understand that The Measure of a Man was an allegory against slavery. What if there were a whole race of androids? Should they be impressed into Starfleet simply because of their extraordinary abilities? Or should they be allowed to join Starfleet of their own free will? Or pursue any other choice, like going into politics, business, or medicine. I support the latter.

I got the point of the episode. My TRS-80 from Radio Shack had tremendous abilities back in the early 80's... guess it was a slave too? Next my PC will be asking for reparations for the inhumane treatment my TRS-80 was put through.

I predict that if we ever do create creatures like Data, more people will be like you and Maddox, unfortunately, slaves to their own narrow way of thinking, and therefore enslaving a new life form.

What can I say... I like being part of a crowd.

One more thing that's rather telling: Your use of semi-Stepinfetchit dialogue to claim I want you to be impressed by my opinion and agree with me. You have an opinion, and I disagree strongly with it. It's as simple as that. But it's ironic you'd use such an outdated stereotypical speech pattern, a form of speech used to denigrate another group of people, to decry my opinion. Hmm! I see a pattern emerging here!

Great... another person trying to bring real world etiquette to the internet. Might want to find something better to do with your time than call me a closet racist.

Actually, your membership card is coming your way via passenger pigeon. It'll get there soon! Sorry if you were insulted by that comment -- I was being sarcastic! But have fun sailing those flat seas, pal!

Nothing like a good 'ole fashion internet dust up.

 

[Red Ranger]

Let's remember that Soong didn't create Data for Starfleet. He created him for many reasons, to advance cybernetics and to introduce a new form of life. Data chose to join Starfleet! He shouldn't be penalized for that choice by being subjected to a dangerous experiment.

I watched all of TNG, I don't remember any specific reasons given for the creations of Lore and Data.

I have to say the only argument in that ep that almost swayed me was when Maddox posed the hypothetical: What if the Enterprise computer refused a refit? And I was only slightly convinced when Maddox said he wouldn't be getting an argument on experimenting on Data if he was a box with wheels.

So the shell helps foster the illusion that he is sentient? Perhaps Soong had other motives and hoped making his androids human in appearance would make them easier to integrate into society?



I got the point of the episode. My TRS-80 from Radio Shack had tremendous abilities back in the early 80's... guess it was a slave too? Next my PC will be asking for reparations for the inhumane treatment my TRS-80 was put through.



What can I say... I like being part of a crowd.

One more thing that's rather telling: Your use of semi-Stepinfetchit dialogue to claim I want you to be impressed by my opinion and agree with me. You have an opinion, and I disagree strongly with it. It's as simple as that. But it's ironic you'd use such an outdated stereotypical speech pattern, a form of speech used to denigrate another group of people, to decry my opinion. Hmm! I see a pattern emerging here!

Great... another person trying to bring real world etiquette to the internet. Might want to find something better to do with your time than call me a closet racist.

Actually, your membership card is coming your way via passenger pigeon. It'll get there soon! Sorry if you were insulted by that comment -- I was being sarcastic! But have fun sailing those flat seas, pal!

Nothing like a good 'ole fashion internet dust up.

Ah, you laugh at the thought your PC, and others, may be planning revenge on humanity! Laugh like that the next time your computer gets a virus, or you lose a paper you're working on! That snickering you'll hear is your PC laughing at your misfortune, and striking back at the minions of orthodoxy.

Nothing wrong with bringing etiquette to the Internet, old chap! Try it sometime, you may feel better about yourself! I didn't call you a closet racist -- you made the comparison. Also telling!

BTW, as far as Soong not saying why he created Data, I just remember a few lines, like in Datalore, when they said Soong was trying to achieve Isaac Asimov's dream of creating a positronic brain. And in Brothers, he implies he created Data and Lore for the same reason people have children -- to leave something of themselves behind when they're gone. That makes sense to me -- they both had Soong's face and voice.

Red Ranger

 

[BillJ]

Let's remember that Soong didn't create Data for Starfleet. He created him for many reasons, to advance cybernetics and to introduce a new form of life. Data chose to join Starfleet! He shouldn't be penalized for that choice by being subjected to a dangerous experiment.

I watched all of TNG, I don't remember any specific reasons given for the creations of Lore and Data.



So the shell helps foster the illusion that he is sentient? Perhaps Soong had other motives and hoped making his androids human in appearance would make them easier to integrate into society?



I got the point of the episode. My TRS-80 from Radio Shack had tremendous abilities back in the early 80's... guess it was a slave too? Next my PC will be asking for reparations for the inhumane treatment my TRS-80 was put through.



What can I say... I like being part of a crowd.



Great... another person trying to bring real world etiquette to the internet. Might want to find something better to do with your time than call me a closet racist.

Actually, your membership card is coming your way via passenger pigeon. It'll get there soon! Sorry if you were insulted by that comment -- I was being sarcastic! But have fun sailing those flat seas, pal!

Nothing like a good 'ole fashion internet dust up.

Ah, you laugh at the thought your PC, and others, may be planning revenge on humanity! Laugh like that the next time your computer gets a virus, or you lose a paper you're working on! That snickering you'll hear is your PC laughing at your misfortune, and striking back at the minions of orthodoxy.

Nothing wrong with bringing etiquette to the Internet, old chap! Try it sometime, you may feel better about yourself! I didn't call you a closet racist -- you made the comparison. Also telling!

BTW, as far as Soong not saying why he created Data, I just remember a few lines, like in Datalore, when they said Soong was trying to achieve Isaac Asimov's dream of creating a positronic brain. And in Brothers, he implies he created Data and Lore for the same reason people have children -- to leave something of themselves behind when they're gone. That makes sense to me -- they both had Soong's face and voice.

Red Ranger

Don't remember the Asimov lines from Datalore, do remember the offspring quotes from Brothers.

Probably going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. we seem to be clubbing each other over the head with the same points over and over.

 

[Red Ranger]

I watched all of TNG, I don't remember any specific reasons given for the creations of Lore and Data.



So the shell helps foster the illusion that he is sentient? Perhaps Soong had other motives and hoped making his androids human in appearance would make them easier to integrate into society?



I got the point of the episode. My TRS-80 from Radio Shack had tremendous abilities back in the early 80's... guess it was a slave too? Next my PC will be asking for reparations for the inhumane treatment my TRS-80 was put through.



What can I say... I like being part of a crowd.



Great... another person trying to bring real world etiquette to the internet. Might want to find something better to do with your time than call me a closet racist.



Nothing like a good 'ole fashion internet dust up.

Ah, you laugh at the thought your PC, and others, may be planning revenge on humanity! Laugh like that the next time your computer gets a virus, or you lose a paper you're working on! That snickering you'll hear is your PC laughing at your misfortune, and striking back at the minions of orthodoxy.

Nothing wrong with bringing etiquette to the Internet, old chap! Try it sometime, you may feel better about yourself! I didn't call you a closet racist -- you made the comparison. Also telling!

BTW, as far as Soong not saying why he created Data, I just remember a few lines, like in Datalore, when they said Soong was trying to achieve Isaac Asimov's dream of creating a positronic brain. And in Brothers, he implies he created Data and Lore for the same reason people have children -- to leave something of themselves behind when they're gone. That makes sense to me -- they both had Soong's face and voice.

Red Ranger

Don't remember the Asimov lines from Datalore, do remember the offspring quotes from Brothers.

Probably going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. we seem to be clubbing each other over the head with the same points over and over.

Generally speaking, yep! Thump, thump, thump! And, actually, I don't agree to disagree -- I just disagree! But then again, I'm cantankerous! -- RR

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And I also think that in Redemption, Pt. II, Data enjoys an inward sense of revenge, as well as moral outrage, and just plain old delight, when he's confronted by Lt. Cmdr Hobson's bigotry

I always thought that Data's attitude towards Hobson (openly yelling at him on the bridge and all that) was faked. Meaning, Data himself didn't feel the rage, but acted as if he did, for Hobson's benefit. An android would never really act like that, but Hobson needed that kind of a dressing down.

 

[Nebusj]

Kirk admired and respected Flint's creations. It's true they were in the guise of a beautiful woman, but I don't think he would have respected them less were they not.

You know (trying to wrangle this back to Kirk), I think Kirk's reactions to Rayna are important. He's not horrified or offended or annoyed when Rayna insists upon her ability to choose what she wants with her life: he's joyous, that she's achieved an important humanity. He sees it as a triumph that she insists on doing as she wants.

Granted that Kirk was infatuated with Rayna as he knew her: I don't think this reflects much of a difference from the Kirk who appreciated the Companion's love for what it was, or imbued humanity into the Kelvans, or that understood the horta.

 

[Anticitizen]

Regarding Data and the court-martial: the whole premise seemed unsound to me. Here we have a debate on whether Data is sentient or not, when the key argument should've been whether Data was Starfleet property or not. As far as I can recall, and correct me if I'm wrong, Data was discovered. He wasn't built with Starfeet technology or a commissioned art piece sponsored by Federation credits. The defense's argument should've been: 'We (UFP/Starfleet) didn't build him. We found him. Just as we've found many strange creatures. We have no idea how he really works or whether he's a life-form or even really a conscious being.' Seems to me that all they would have to do is cast sufficient doubt on the notion that he's some sort of Starfleet hardware, and that the legal opposition in the trial would then carry the burden of proof (which they don't have).

However, that wouldn't necessitate an episode on the subject, would it? The writers WANTED a story about a trial determining whether Data had rights or not.

My alternate-universe proposal: Data is put on trial for an action he committed. Let's say it's one of those fairly rare moments when he has the conn, and he makes the most logical decision anyone could under the circumstances, but it turns out to be the wrong choice and a few crewmembers are killed. Those in the prosecution hold that he shouldn't have ever been in the command seat because of his artificiality; the defense argues that he is not only qualified as any human, but also made the best choice that could've been made given the circumstances. Maybe throw in a Vulcan to testify that he would've made the same command choice, that'd be a nice touch.

This would be a better way, in my opinion, to explore the question of whether Data is a legal free agent in the eyes of Starfleet than the one we were given.

I realize we've gone way off topic insofar as Kirk is concerned, so I'll make it relevant by suggesting that if Kirk were in Picard's position, Kirk would attend the proceedings with his dress uniform bellyshirt and give a passionate, staccato speech accompanied with fervent hand gestures that would make the most stubborn of the opposition say: 'Well, while I don't necessarily agree, but it is James T. Kirk we're dealing with here.' Which is how things pretty much rolled where James T. Kirk was involved.

 

[BillJ]

Regarding Data and the court-martial: the whole premise seemed unsound to me. Here we have a debate on whether Data is sentient or not, when the key argument should've been whether Data was Starfleet property or not. As far as I can recall, and correct me if I'm wrong, Data was discovered. He wasn't built with Starfeet technology or a commissioned art piece sponsored by Federation credits. The defense's argument should've been: 'We (UFP/Starfleet) didn't build him. We found him. Just as we've found many strange creatures. We have no idea how he really works or whether he's a life-form or even really a conscious being.' Seems to me that all they would have to do is cast sufficient doubt on the notion that he's some sort of Starfleet hardware, and that the legal opposition in the trial would then carry the burden of proof (which they don't have).

However, that wouldn't necessitate an episode on the subject, would it? The writers WANTED a story about a trial determining whether Data had rights or not.

My alternate-universe proposal: Data is put on trial for an action he committed. Let's say it's one of those fairly rare moments when he has the conn, and he makes the most logical decision anyone could under the circumstances, but it turns out to be the wrong choice and a few crewmembers are killed. Those in the prosecution hold that he shouldn't have ever been in the command seat because of his artificiality; the defense argues that he is not only qualified as any human, but also made the best choice that could've been made given the circumstances. Maybe throw in a Vulcan to testify that he would've made the same command choice, that'd be a nice touch.

This would be a better way, in my opinion, to explore the question of whether Data is a legal free agent in the eyes of Starfleet than the one we were given.

I realize we've gone way off topic insofar as Kirk is concerned, so I'll make it relevant by suggesting that if Kirk were in Picard's position, Kirk would attend the proceedings with his dress uniform bellyshirt and give a passionate, staccato speech accompanied with fervent hand gestures that would make the most stubborn of the opposition say: 'Well, while I don't necessarily agree, but it is James T. Kirk we're dealing with here.' Which is how things pretty much rolled where James T. Kirk was involved.

"Your Honor. I would like to cite precedent. I submit you look at Finders Keepers vs. Losers Weepers."

 

[Red Ranger]

Regarding Data and the court-martial: the whole premise seemed unsound to me. Here we have a debate on whether Data is sentient or not, when the key argument should've been whether Data was Starfleet property or not. As far as I can recall, and correct me if I'm wrong, Data was discovered. He wasn't built with Starfeet technology or a commissioned art piece sponsored by Federation credits. The defense's argument should've been: 'We (UFP/Starfleet) didn't build him. We found him. Just as we've found many strange creatures. We have no idea how he really works or whether he's a life-form or even really a conscious being.' Seems to me that all they would have to do is cast sufficient doubt on the notion that he's some sort of Starfleet hardware, and that the legal opposition in the trial would then carry the burden of proof (which they don't have).

However, that wouldn't necessitate an episode on the subject, would it? The writers WANTED a story about a trial determining whether Data had rights or not.

My alternate-universe proposal: Data is put on trial for an action he committed. Let's say it's one of those fairly rare moments when he has the conn, and he makes the most logical decision anyone could under the circumstances, but it turns out to be the wrong choice and a few crewmembers are killed. Those in the prosecution hold that he shouldn't have ever been in the command seat because of his artificiality; the defense argues that he is not only qualified as any human, but also made the best choice that could've been made given the circumstances. Maybe throw in a Vulcan to testify that he would've made the same command choice, that'd be a nice touch.

This would be a better way, in my opinion, to explore the question of whether Data is a legal free agent in the eyes of Starfleet than the one we were given.

I realize we've gone way off topic insofar as Kirk is concerned, so I'll make it relevant by suggesting that if Kirk were in Picard's position, Kirk would attend the proceedings with his dress uniform bellyshirt and give a passionate, staccato speech accompanied with fervent hand gestures that would make the most stubborn of the opposition say: 'Well, while I don't necessarily agree, but it is James T. Kirk we're dealing with here.' Which is how things pretty much rolled where James T. Kirk was involved.

Anticitizen:

A very interesting take. I can also see the prosecution using an argument similar to the one Hobson did when he accused Data of not caring that he was throwing away people's lives, implying he couldn't understand that because he was just a machine (when Data's actions flooded part of the Sutherland with dangerous radiation).

Red Ranger

 

[Anticitizen]

You could even preserve the plot point where a conflicted Riker must work against his friend, and for a better reason: if Data is judged to be a lifeform, and therefore fit for duty, he can be tried and punished for a 'poor' command decision that cost lives. If he is ruled to be nothing more than a machine, then he would be expelled from Starfleet. Riker could feel that the latter option would be better for his friend. At the end, of course, Picard would convince everyone that Data is more 'human' because he has flaws and isn't perfect.

 

[Timo]

I dunno. I rather like it the way it went in the episode: Data was acknowledged to be but a machine, in this trial as well as originally when enrolling to the Academy, but this didn't affect his career prospects one iota. Data's sentience or lack of it played no role in his admission to the Academy or his continued Starfleet career, either. Which is all good and well, because those things would have no practical relevance, and Starfleet sounds like a practical organization. If Data walks, quacks and looks like a recruit, by no means recruit him, and turn him into a capable officer!

The trial in "Measure of a Man" was never about Data's deeper essence. It was only about a legal technicality that Philippa Louvois unfortunately let slip in a conversation with Bruce Maddox, and the latter then grasped this last straw in his attempt to get control of Data. And prying open that grasp was what our heroes achieved, through another trivial sleigh-of-hand, the construction of the straw man of "android armies".

Nobody seriously believed that Maddox was thinking on those lines. Nobody seriously believed such things would come to pass. But it was another technicality to trump Maddox' technicality, and allowed the piece of machinery that is Data to walk free.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Red Ranger]

And prying open that grasp was what our heroes achieved, through another trivial sleigh-of-hand, the construction of the straw man of "android armies".

Nobody seriously believed that Maddox was thinking on those lines. Nobody seriously believed such things would come to pass. But it was another technicality to trump Maddox' technicality, and allowed the piece of machinery that is Data to walk free.

Timo Saloniemi

Timo:

I must disagree with your last point. The idea of an army of Datas, or a whole race of androids, came right out of Maddox's mouth, when he said, and I'm paraphrasing, imagine every starship with a Data on board, being our eyes and ears in dangerous situations.

So obviously, Maddox saw his experiments as a way to create other Soong-type androids to serve in Starfleet in great numbers. So it wasn't really a straw man.

Red Ranger

 

[paudemge]

Kirk wouldn't have a problem with Data.
I think the real problem with AI and super efficient robots/androids is that once you introduce them it becomes obvious to the audience that almost every job should be done by AI or robot, so in order to keep the 'living' crew relevant the ai's/robots must have some kind of problem

 

[KirksFlyingFist]

I think he may have been skeptical at first, and due to Data's really quirky personality may not have seen him as fully human, but after time I think Kirk would grow to accept Data.

 

[Timo]

I must disagree with your last point. The idea of an army of Datas, or a whole race of androids, came right out of Maddox's mouth, when he said, and I'm paraphrasing, imagine every starship with a Data on board, being our eyes and ears in dangerous situations.

So obviously, Maddox saw his experiments as a way to create other Soong-type androids to serve in Starfleet in great numbers. So it wasn't really a straw man.

Umm, good point. But it's still quite a conceptual leap from "a Data on every starship" to "cannon fodder androids on battlefields" or "a race of machine slaves".

Admittedly, though, Starfleet doesn't seem to think on the lines of Maddox when it comes to sentient beings. There isn't a telepath on every ship, for example, or an empath, or a shapeshifter, or a superbly powerful brute, or even a calm and focused Vulcan, even though a "racially non-blind" recruiting policy would provide Starfleet with those valuable assets.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[btflash]

"Why, I can make a hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl... "

dam it! you beat me to it!