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HEROES 3x11 "The Eclipse, Part 2" Discuss and Grade

Grade the episode


  • Total voters
    64
HRG is so damned hard core and single minded in tracking down sylar if T:SCC gets another season he should so freeking play a terminator!

He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

....Yep, that's HRG in a nutshell. :lol:


Wait! That's it! HRG is the final Cylon!

*looks around* Oh wait, wrong forum.
 
Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world be all bubble gum and balloons for their Claire Bear.
 
This show is starting to remind me of a writing exercise in one of my high school english classes WAAAAY back in the 90's. The class was divided into smaller groups, and each group was responsible for writing a short story. One member of the group would write the first paragraph, then they'd hand it over to the next member to write the second paragraph, and so forth. What you often ended up with was a bunch of people who didn't like each others' stories, each one contriving up some ham-handed bullshit transition to get them from the story they were handed to the story they wanted to write.
You know something? That's almost how the show is written. Apparently each writer is given one storyline/character to work on and they write the scenes with those characters, which are then given to the episode writer who stitches them all together. This supposedly makes it all go faster. The reason given is that production needs to be able to shoot at a given location all at once, so if there is more than one episode at that location they need all those scripts ready. That may be true...but it's the crappiest way of writing a TV show I've ever heard. I'm surprised it got a whole good season out.

I'm just about done. All this buildup to a mysterious eclipse that's going to get an explanation...and almost nothing about it gets explained. "We lost our powers. Now we've got them back." Okay. Guessed that already. So how does it work? We really should have found out by now, I think.

And another thing: Charles Deveaux. I had to look up the last episode of Season 1 on Wikipedia to remember his name. That shouldn't have to be. Peter goes into the past, finds out that the man he was nursing earlier is in on the Company's plans, has a rather cool conversation with him on The Rooftop...and there's no follow-up on it at all. I'm actually willing to cut a small bit of slack with this: Remember that what we're seeing now would have been the last couple episodes of Season 2 if it wasn't for the writer's strike. Which means that they really should have brought Charles Deveaux (via flashbacks or time travel) into play by now to work him back into the overall scheme of things.

If you see a gun hanging on the wall in Act I, Scene 1...
 
^^^Join the cult.

Back to topic. This whole Villans saga is the cliff notes version of WWF (then E) wrestling throughout the past 25+ years.


Back in the 1980's, the faces (good guys) and heels (bad guys) were pretty much obvious. Hulk Hogan, Junkyard Dog, and Hillbilly Jim were faces, and Roddy Piper, Iron Sheik, and Nikolai Volkoff were heels. And they they played their respective parts to the hilt. Even when there was the occasional switch, like Andre The Giant becoming a heel, they didn't waver in their new roles. Then in the 1990's, the switching of faces and heels became erratic and faces started having heel like tendencies and faces that acted like true faces, like the Blue Blazer, were treated like jokes. Nowadays, everyone seems to be certain degrees of heels because it's "kewl" to be the badass. But to me, it's boring to see various degrees of the same personality. The same thing is happening with Heroes. They seemed to have been so wrapped up in the "who will be a villan" angle, that they forgot to get some actual heroes in the mix. Or the heroes they do have seem to be ineffectual. As cliched and simplistic as it may seem, the only way to save this show, to me at least, is to draw a line and have factions to be on either side of that line as a hero or villan. This "everyone has the potential to be an asshole" theme didn't work with Marvel's Civil War, and it ain't working here.

But hey, what do I know? According to TIm Kring, I'm a dipshit.
 
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Yeah, that seemed like a very LOOOOONNNNNGGG eclipse to me. Eclipses usually last much less than an hour, don't they? This one was long enough for Sylar and Elle to leave Pinehurst (East Coast somewhere, right?), go to what's-his-name's house (isn't that in California), fight with Noah, shoot Claire (then Claire gets taken home, goes to the hospital and dies), make love, get shot by Noah, run away, and fight with Noah again. That seems like a pretty full day to me, certainly more than an hour.

The eclipse didn't begin until they reached black hole man's house, as it was only then that they noticed their powers gone (Sylar still had his powers at the rental place). The episode jumped around a lot but the first battle in the house to the final fight at the supermarket could've taken less than 90 minutes.

I rated this one quite highly. I can never remember what the characters are doing weeks ago so I don't care if there is a sudden shift in direction. Tim Kring has always said he wanted a new cast for each season but producers force him to use the same actors, so he's stuck with them. The losss of Kristen Bell (like Malcolm Macdowell earlier in the season) due to contractual reasons is sad as I liked her character, but we have to move on.

I still love it, and will continue to watch it. It's one of those shows that I come home from a hard day at work, put my brain in neutral and enjoy.
 
Nowadays, everyone seems to be certain degrees of heels because it's "kewl" to be the badass. But to me, it's boring to see various degrees of the same personality. The same thing is happening with Heroes. They seemed to have been so wrapped up in the "who will be a villan" angle, that they forgot to get some actual heroes in the mix. Or the heroes they do have seem to be ineffectual.

Whatever people may think, television, movies, novels are all shaped by social and commercial pressures beyond the mere size of the net profit. Proof? Otherwise everyone would be doing porn. It was just a short time ago that the oped columnists and supposed deepthink trendy policy manifestoes were raving about America's empire and living up to the responsibility of the imperial project. Those pressures are not going away, even if they are temporarily financially embarrassed (and they will break unions to make sure it's temporary, too.) The kind of moral values needed for empire, particularly an empire which is going broke, are not the old values of sacrifice, tolerance, discipline, etc. The appropriate kind of values are the "heel" values. And television, movies and novels will mainly tell stories about how this is necessary and how it's human nature and so on.
 
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So how does it work? We really should have found out by now, I think.

Why?

I for one would really prefer not to know and this whole science based approach by Mohinder this season is really a worry. It takes away the whole mystery and magic that the characters have.

If I hear medichlorians I'm outta here.
 
Nowadays, everyone seems to be certain degrees of heels because it's "kewl" to be the badass. But to me, it's boring to see various degrees of the same personality. The same thing is happening with Heroes.
The way to do a story about villains is to forget the WWF as a model (I certainly hope that's not what they've been using but it might help explain why the writing is so bad) is to find the specific and unique "villain" in each character so that all the characters are different and true to their own selves.

All good characters have some weakness or deficiency. If they were perfect, they'd be a bore. The Heroes characters have some nice ways their unique villainy could be pulled out of them:

Matt means well but he's an action guy and he doesn't think in abstractions of good and evil. That would make him very prone to abusing his mental powers without stopping to realize that what he's doing can't be justified just because he means well and the ends are "good." Like in Five Years Gone.

Mohinder is in this story because he is motivated by what should motivate a scientist, a love of exploration and uncovering amazing things. With just a few changes, his dopey mad scientist plotline this season could have been perfect for him.

Nathan overcame his ambition, cynicism and selfishness in the S1 finale long enough to become a hero, but those traits didn't just vanish. They are part of his personality and can re-emerge under the right circumstances. Stupidly enough, his "villain" story seems to be about him being idealistic, stupid and naive, which are not his villain traits or any sorts of traits he's ever possessed! Those belong to his brother...

Peter can get carried away by his martyr complex and angry sense of self-righteousness when he isn't wallowing in self-pity. To top it all off, he's immature, kinda dense and lacks personal insight. In short, he's a disaster waiting to happen. Give him unlimited power, and villainy would be the next logical step. All the while of course he'd be so enmeshed in his self-justifying fantasies of heroism, nobody would be able to get through to him to kick some common sense into him.

There was never any reason to bring on new characters like Flint or Knox to be villains. Those guys are duds compared to the wonderful potential of the incipient villains they've already got on the payroll.

The idea of Heroes: Villains was a great one. But man oh man, these writers are horrifically bad at it. It's like they know what the right thing to do is, and then they do the opposite! :rommie:

Apparently each writer is given one storyline/character to work on and they write the scenes with those characters, which are then given to the episode writer who stitches them all together. This supposedly makes it all go faster. The reason given is that production needs to be able to shoot at a given location all at once, so if there is more than one episode at that location they need all those scripts ready. That may be true...but it's the crappiest way of writing a TV show I've ever heard. I'm surprised it got a whole good season out.

Oy! That sounds like a recipe for deliberately sabotaging the show. Were the producers who got fired responsible for that nonsense? If so, I'm glad they got the boot. And I wonder if a lot of S1 weren't written before production got underway and therefore there was more time for revision and adding overall coherence. It's very odd that it's so much better than S2 and S3.
 
The eclipse didn't begin until they reached black hole man's house, as it was only then that they noticed their powers gone (Sylar still had his powers at the rental place). The episode jumped around a lot but the first battle in the house to the final fight at the supermarket could've taken less than 90 minutes.
This was easily my biggest problem with this episode.

Our characters lost their powers for, what, an hour? Big fucking deal. Everybody needs to calm down.

Plus the fact that the older generation lost their powers too. Why? Did they lose their powers when the first eclipse happened in Season 1? No? Then what the hell is going on?
 
The way to do a story about villains is to forget the WWF as a model (I certainly hope that's not what they've been using but it might help explain why the writing is so bad) is to find the specific and unique "villain" in each character so that all the characters are different and true to their own selves.

Don't knock it, wrestling still occasionally provides a genuine surprise which is more than I can say for this show.
 
Just an aside since so many people seemed to have missed it, Sylar wasn't ripping open Elle's skull to learn how to use her power. He was trying to do what Peter tried to do to Nathan soon after he gained Sylar's power; probe his mind for the truth. Namely, whether or not she knew anything about his true origins thanks to Noah putting that suspicion into his head.
 
The way to do a story about villains is to forget the WWF as a model (I certainly hope that's not what they've been using but it might help explain why the writing is so bad) is to find the specific and unique "villain" in each character so that all the characters are different and true to their own selves.

Don't knock it, wrestling still occasionally provides a genuine surprise which is more than I can say for this show.
Speak for yourself, I am continuously surprised and shocked at the ineptitude of the writers to create consistent characters. :lol:
 
Below Average; I still enjoy the characters too much to ever give this show a Poor but blech, this Volume is shaping up to be an utter disaster. :rommie:
...

Temis, are you bipolar? :lol: (I mean that in the nicest sense) :)

Last episode you rated very highly...
Excellent! This episode is what this show should be doing every week, putting characters in scenes together and having them use dialogue to actually push their character arcs forward.
...Yet this episode you rate lowly and call this volume an "utter disaster".

Yet both parts of the two-parter contained the same break-neck character inconsistencies and sudden motivational changes. Is it just that you liked the changes last episode but disliked how they changed this episode? Just curious...
 
Below Average; I still enjoy the characters too much to ever give this show a Poor but blech, this Volume is shaping up to be an utter disaster. :rommie:

Because the writing is horrible. HORRIBLE! Seriously, it reeks. Take a fiction writing course sometime and then analyze this show after you've learned the things even a beginning writer must know. It will become obvious how truly wretched the writing is.

am I the only one who found the comic shop scenes a really hamfisted & lame attempt at pleasing fanboy types?

It was so painfully pointless and boring, I can hardly believe there's a person on the planet that enjoyed it.

Wow... I love your whole "my opinion is that this show/episode sucks balls and everyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking idiot" stance. Though I disagree, I admire such audacity and imposition. :techman:

Also, I love how alot of you guys are like "That's it, I'm DONE with this show/season/series! This episode was the tipping point..." but then every week you come back to talk about the next episode hahaha
 
^ That's kinda why I don't comment much in these threads. I admit the show is driving me crazy the last couple seasons, but it's too much work to analyze it to death anymore. I know I'll still be interested in what happens next, at least for a while.

I will say though, that my chosen viewing order has changed significantly lately. Heroes is no longer in the coveted "favorite saved for last" position. Now I watch Heroes, then save Chuck for last. :techman:

Whether it's true or not, the show no longer feels like the writers know where they're going with it. In the first season, as you watched each week, you felt like the story unfolding before you was carefully planned, practically past tense in its certainty. Like reading Isaac Mendez' comic, when the ending had already been written. The show doesn't feel like that anymore. Much as I've enjoyed the premise, I almost wish they'd stopped at the end of Season 1.
 
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