Any good Black Friday stories?

[RandyS]

I have a great Black Friday story.

Today, I slept in. And it was glorious.

Same here. I slept off a headache and missed the whole thing.

 

[ria 75]

That Black Friday business is fucked up. Why can't it be spread over several days?

Because businesses compete with each other... They compete to say they had xyz sales volume. There will be plenty of spectacular deals, some perhaps better than the ones we saw today, during the rest of the holiday shopping season... but to get things off to a strong start, they all want to start off right, and with the mob outside their door!

I prefer the French system. Each new week of sales period (roughly, January and July) the bargains get better, but the stocks thin out. The volume of shoppers is balanced between who prefers better choice or better bargains.

 

[dave_R_treker]

^^You go shopping under the reasonable assumption that this isn't going to be a dangerous shopping experience. You reasonably expect that you can go in there, under normal circumstances, shop for your items and be on your merry way. By hyping Black Friday deals and changing the store hours, an expectation is created among people that rare deals will be gone if they don't get there first in line... hence the creation of a mob. It's not unreasonable to assume that Wal-Mart full-well knew that the conditions would be dangerous.

Why can someone sue WM if they slip in water and fall but not sue for being trampled to death? In the same vein as the shoppers' scenario, every WM employee goes to work under the reasonable assumption that their working conditions will be safe as they did not apply for any high-risk position. Obviously, these workers are not trained to handle the mob.

Any other large venue with large amounts of people, that is prone to similar situations is required to have security personnel that are trained and expect to encounter sticky situations... be it concerts, sporting events, etc... these venues are held accountable. Wal-Mart has created an atmosphere where these similar conditions occur (if not worse) and have not taken reasonable measures to safeguard its customers and as such must be held accountable.

End of story.

I agree with you 150%.

Just a few things wrong with Wal-Mart. Undertrained, under staffed. Though who knows what would have happned if they did have a few more "security".

They should've easily forseen large crowds and taken some measure of crowd control. They didn't. A man died.

I would say that they did forsee this... which is why they cleared out the entrances at the time of opening

They clearly didn't do enough. Ropes, barriers, some form of other method to control the flow of people through the doors would've been more apt.

Ropes, barriers, none of this would have stopped a crowed like this. they would have just plowed them right down.

 

[DanCPA]

The system clearly IS failing.

Because it didn't work in 1 instance doesn't mean that it has failed.

Consent to what? Get shot? Stabbed? Trampled to death?

Frankly, yes. If you are going to run around in a mob, then you are consenting to that and more... Use your judgment and stay out of them... But if you choose to stay, you are now a willing participant.

People in general are nasty, brutish, violent animals. This is just one more bit of proof. But you're right, it may well take serious jail time to put a lid on this shit.

Yeah, it should. We agree! Huzzaa

I doubt it was as bad then. Did you see people being injured or killed then?

I heard on the news about people being mugged after getting their playoff tickets back in the 80s... Was I there, no. Was I in NY today for this, no.

Not if we put sufficient control on the people involved.

And waht is sufficient control?

As I said, I would consider it an acceptable risk...Better that the occasional profiling charge gets flung around, than the mobs be allowed to further spiral out of control and kill even more people.

And I disagree. Profiling charges can do serious long term damage to a companies profit margin... This is a business.

We'll see if anyone actually does get punished. It might be possible to check credit card receipts at this store,[\quote]That could help id some people

as well as check the security camera footage, to determine who was in the crowd and thereby find out who to charge - if not with murder, then at least reckless endangerment and possibly manslaughter.

Exactly! Plus, you have a bunch of eye witnesses, and the police showed up and no doubt took names and statements from people. Plus, the parking lot security has license plates and cars recorded.

This mob was out of control, but that should not deter from the enjoyment that many shoppers get from taking part in these black-friday free for alls.

It should.

Why? Society can not, nor should it, sanitize itself because of a few errant mal-effects. Want nothing to do with this... STAY HOME! But if you are going to join the mob, that's your choice, much like riding the bulls was a choice of many every year... Just be ready to accept the consequences. Society, like life, is meant to be enjoyed. If you don't want to take your kid to the park because something bad might happen, that's your choice... but don't have all the parks shut down because 1 kid was kidnapped from one... Same thing here... don't destroy the black friday free for all because of this unfortunate incident.

 

[DanCPA]

...shoppers don't, and never should be expected to.

Everytime you go out in public you know that there is the possibility of something horrible happening. That's life.
Also, if you see a huge mob and you choose to go there, you are consenting to what might happen because you are choosing to go. You also have the choice to walk away

Whatever saves lives.

By your logic we should remove all the cars from the roads to prevent auto fatalities.

Better that, than people dying.

No, it's not. One death, as tragic as it is, should not lead to the decline of a company that helps take care of millions world wide.

You can't enjoy it if you're DEAD!

But you can enjoy it if you stay away from out of control mobs. Use your judgment

The simple fact is, we don't have to accept this. We can change. We can reject the out-of-control 'buying' culture, we can reject mob violence, we can *end* mob violence.

Why would we? Black Friday is almost as important to the modern turkey day as the turkey itself to some... American civilization should not be changed because of one tragedy.

As it stands, the situation is unacceptable. You go out in that, you are not safe. Every step you take could be your last.

Then don't go in! Use your brain! When you go to a concert and start moshing, there is the chance you will be pulled down and trampled... but when you join the mosh, you are consenting. The same thing here my friend...

Are you seriously telling me you don't MIND that?

Yes, which is why I wouldn't go. I went out of my way to avoid the mall areas and Wal-Mart today. I even drove an extra 10 miles to go to the office depot near my work to avoid the disaster that I knew was going to form on 71st St/ Hwy 169 near the mall/bestbut/target area.

Don't you want things to change, to get better?

Nope. I think this was an extraordinary circumstances and we shouldn't over-react.

Ropes, barriers, none of this would have stopped a crowed like this.

Armed guards just might. Why not try that?

Oh yeah, lets start shooting blacks... That'll work

 

[Trekker4747]

But that method has worked for decades...

Drilling holes in peoples' heads to relieve headaches also "worked for decades" doesn't mean it's the right way to do things.

Ok, look at it like this. On your property you've a responsibility to make sure people don't get hurt. If someone is walking up your front walk and they slip on some ice and break a bone they can sue you for not clearing your walk. If you throw a party and someone gets hurt in a fight you can be sued. You've the responsibility.

The same goes to corporations and businesses. They've a responsiblity to their customers and moreso their employees to ensure their safety and they didn't do this. Just because they did what was minimally required doesn't mean they did all they could do.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Ropes, barriers, none of this would have stopped a crowed like this.

Armed guards just might. Why not try that?

Oh yeah, lets start shooting blacks... That'll work

I'll thank you to stop putting words in my mouth, thank you very much.

Firstly, I did not know then, nor do I care now, what color the mob's skin was. If we've learned anything it's that people of all colors and races can be equally vicious and bloodthirsty. It's *human* nature, not confined to any specific race or culture.

Secondly, I just said put the guards there. I didn't say I actually wanted them to shoot anybody. The mere fact of *having* armed guards just might be enough.

Black Friday is almost as important to the modern turkey day as the turkey itself to some...

As if we didn't have enough reason to suspect how utterly fucked up our society is.

American civilization should not be changed because of one tragedy.

I think it should.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

If something like that happens, they can charge the bartenders, I believe. If not, I wish they could.

There was a case where a guy filled up gas for an obviously intoxicated man. That man killed someone while drunk driving. The police determined that, had the attendant not filled up his tank, the man would have run out of gas before hitting anyone. The attendant was charged (I can't remember with what, unfortunately) and I believe his conviction was upheld. Something like that is pretty rare, but it isn't impossible.

I can definitely see a civil case against Wal Mart. Criminal charges would be difficult (criminally negligent homicide has a much stricter burden). Still, I don't think any blame being placed on Wal-Mart should excuse the crowd. Their actions are equally deplorable (and, although I doubt anyone will do anything about it, do qualify for criminal charges). Could this have been prevented? I think so (more security, at the very least. Hell, if the crowd was getting unruly enough to possibly break down the doors, the police should have been called).

 

[Brolan]

Why crowd control is important.

 

[DanCPA]

If someone is walking up your front walk and they slip on some ice and break a bone they can sue you for not clearing your walk.

Not here in Oklahoma
Here if you go out on a day where there is ice, or if a reasonable man would have avoided and used more caution in that area, you are not liable.

What ever happened to personal responsibility? What happened to knowing right and wrong. I get it, if the company fucks up, they should be punished. But if you are the fuck up (the mob in this case), then you should be punished.
I think, and hope, that Wal-Mart will offer a reasonable settlement to this temp's family, if for no other reason than PR. But I don't think they should be sued for it... Wal-Mart could not have predicted an angry black mob taking the door off the hinges and not giving this employee enough time to get out of the way... No one could have.

American civilization should not be changed because of one tragedy.

I think it should.

Then we will have to agree to disagree and simply leave it at that.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, I was thinking of that when hearing the story. The idea that people can get trampled in mass crowd situations like this isn't new. Whether it's a concert or Walmart, they need to be aware.

 

[Cutter John]

Honestly it wouldn't upset me terribly if they were to just ban these 'doorbuster' sales outright. Perhaps by spreading the 'bargains' throughout the day. Hell it worked for years with K Mart and their blue light specials.

Looks to me like WalMart actively encourages these sorts of feeding frenzy incidents.

Not that many good Youtube vids this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYpOGD0Dlxg and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg5A...fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=4048978 aren't too bad. Almost as much fun as the original Dawn of the Dead movie.

Can't really get my brain around the whole 'I'd rather sleep out on the sidewalk all night than spend time with my family' mindset.

 

[hamudm]

No offense to anyone, but I can't believe I'm reading some of this shit... :S

 

[DanCPA]

Hell it worked for years with K Mart and their blue light specials.

Hate to point out that KMart had to declare bankruptcy

 

[Cutter John]

Hell it worked for years with K Mart and their blue light specials.

Hate to point out that KMart had to declare bankruptcy

True. But thats just recently. They were THE discount department store long before Walmart came on the scene.

(remembers looking for Star Wars stuff back when I was a kid and the first movie was still in theaters)

No offense to anyone, but I can't believe I'm reading some of this shit... :S

Any shit in particular?

 

[DanCPA]

True. But thats just recently. They were THE discount department store long before Walmart came on the scene.

All the more reason for Wal-Mart to learn from the mistakes of others and remain the industry leader

 

[hamudm]

No offense to anyone, but I can't believe I'm reading some of this shit... :S

Any shit in particular?[/quote]

I'll take the fifth

 

[ria 75]

Honestly it wouldn't upset me terribly if they were to just ban these 'doorbuster' sales outright. Perhaps by spreading the 'bargains' throughout the day. Hell it worked for years with K Mart and their blue light specials.

Well said.
Retail customers are not stock market animals. They should not be treated as such.
Although they ARE there to be relieved of the wool off their backs...

 

[Cutter John]

Well said.
Retail customers are not stock market animals. They should not be treated as such.
Although they ARE there to be relieved of the wool off their backs...

Well, thats mostly true. Unless people decide to act like farm animals.


Want to have some real fun? Try watching this clip of last years BF feeding frenzy with this music playing.

Alternately, try this, and this.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Now, I am looking online for a 58" or 63" plasma

Are trying to build a private theater?

I didn't know they built TVs this big yet for normal use..

They certainly do! As I said, I have a 50" plasma and like anything you get used to it. I have an Onkyo 700 watt, 7.1 THX surround and a Samsung Blu Ray player to finish it off. It does make movie night interesting!