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Well that's "Court Martial" and "Obsession" gone then (SPOILERS)

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The only character whose backstory may have figured prominently in the way the actor and writers developed the character on screen was (obviously) Spock. Once his dual ancestry was established writers leaned specifically on it to provide motivation for his current behavior.

On other subjects...given Abrams' apparent penchant for complicated and non-linear plotting, what do you suppose is the possibility that some scenes in the movie will occur more than once in different ways and at different points in the narrative? I'm thinking specifically of the Vulcan rescue mission having more than one outcome, perhaps midway through the movie and then again at the climax.
Hmmm... now that's an interesting idea. It's sort of what was done in Generations, of course... not a NEW idea, in other words... but not necessarily a bad idea, for all that.

Would two Enterprises... from two different timelines... or from two different times (one under Pike, one under Kirk) be able to take out the Klingon "Squidship" mining platform? Maybe it would require someone to do a "Decker maneuver," letting the "reboot timeline" guys sacrifice themselves in order to put things right again?

Seems a bit contrived, maybe, but at least it wouldn't piss off the "reboot timeline" guys as much as it otherwise might if everything just got "reset-buttoned" at the end.
 
given Abrams' apparent penchant for complicated and non-linear plotting, what do you suppose is the possibility that some scenes in the movie will occur more than once in different ways and at different points in the narrative?
One can only hope that is is true.

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given Abrams' apparent penchant for complicated and non-linear plotting, what do you suppose is the possibility that some scenes in the movie will occur more than once in different ways and at different points in the narrative?
One can only hope that is is true.

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If some of this ends up in timelines that are corrected/erased by Spock's efforts, I can swallow even the dumber-looking and sounding stuff.
 
there is no Captain Robert April.

There is. In a TAS episode called "The Counter-Clock Incident".

Ask the average person on the street who Robert April is....


I did that once. The guy I asked answered "that guy on Star Trek played by Jeffrey Hunter."

Okay, so he was so completely wrong about, but he heard the name Robert April and immediately connected it to Star Trek. Shows something about the power of the name.
 
There is. In a TAS episode called "The Counter-Clock Incident".

Ask the average person on the street who Robert April is....


I did that once. The guy I asked answered "that guy on Star Trek played by Jeffrey Hunter."

Okay, so he was so completely wrong about, but he heard the name Robert April and immediately connected it to Star Trek. Shows something about the power of the name.


Now you're lying.
 
Ask the average person on the street who Robert April is....


I did that once. The guy I asked answered "that guy on Star Trek played by Jeffrey Hunter."

Okay, so he was so completely wrong about, but he heard the name Robert April and immediately connected it to Star Trek. Shows something about the power of the name.


Now you're lying.

Maybe; it'd certainly be interesting to see someone come up with a second example. :lol:
 
Ask the average person on the street who Robert April is....


I did that once. The guy I asked answered "that guy on Star Trek played by Jeffrey Hunter."

Okay, so he was so completely wrong about, but he heard the name Robert April and immediately connected it to Star Trek. Shows something about the power of the name.


Now you're lying.

Well, slightly exaggeraitng. I didn't ask some random guy on the street, I asked a co-worker who assumed everything that came out of my mouth was Star Trek related. And he knew Jeffrey Hunter played the first captain in Star Trek, because there was a Family Guy joke about him. So when I asked him if he knew who Captain Robert April was, he guessed "that guy on Star Trek played by Jeffrey Hunter."
 
Well, slightly exaggeraitng. I didn't ask some random guy on the street, I asked a co-worker who assumed everything that came out of my mouth was Star Trek related. And he knew Jeffrey Hunter played the first captain in Star Trek, because there was a Family Guy joke about him. So when I asked him if he knew who Captain Robert April was, he guessed "that guy on Star Trek played by Jeffrey Hunter."

So a guy who hears you talk about Star Trek all the time. Yes, you proved me wrong now :rolleyes:
 
Why the roll eyes? Help me to understand why some changes are okay, but this level of change is not, since we are proceeding under the assumption that canon is not important and that this film is being made primarily for people who are not fans and therefore know little or nothing about the show.
Don't be such an insufferable little pimple.

I'm quite certain that, by now, you've read a number of posts, in various threads, giving examples of other legends (Arthurian ones come to mind) wherein changes have been made over time, some slight, some larger, and yet the characters and setting remain recognizably similar to the original. You cannot seriously claim ignorance of this. Your "changes", as you know perfectly well, go well beyond that--as well as well beyond any changes proposed in this new movie. You are NOT looking for "reasoned responses" to your query--you're looking to show just how clever you think you are. Well, put simply, you're not that clever. Frankly, the kind of argument structure and style you've attempted here is juvenile as you stretch the notion of using exaggeration to make a point well past any "reasonable" point. You are trying to argue there are no degrees of alteration--that any deviation from your precious "canon" no matter how slight or severe, is equally bad. And now you know why no one has bothered to give you a "reasoned response" (and why I won't waste time giving a detailed rebuttal of your post--it isn't worth the effort).
You may not agree with Basil's post... and yes, he used hyperbole there... but his point is entirely valid. And calling people him ugly names doesn't change that.

His point... which I thought was remarkably well-illustrated, frankly... was that any change is a change. How do you decide which changes are "OK" and which are "not OK?"

Nobody would argue that the changes he proposed are OK. Not him, not anyone else. But you can easily take the same arguments which are being tossed out, regularly, by folks on here to denigrate the point-of-view of those who think that the current batch of changes are NOT OK and apply those arguments to any of his "hyperbole" changes... and the arguments you guys keep making are every bit as legitimate and appropriate in that case.

Hyperbole is a great tool to illustrate the absurdity of an opposing viewpoint... IF it fits. In this case, it fits perfectly.

Who decides which "dramatic changes to 40+ years of continuity" are trivial and can be tossed aside, and which aren't? Who decides which "uber-kewl stuff" is allowable and which is ludicrous?

There are only two answers to that. Either "the studio guys get to decide, and we have to take what we've been given and say "thank you kind sir" and keep forking over our money... or "WE get to decide," and if the studio does those things, we can choose not to support the bad decisions they make.

Which is it? Do we have to accept any changes, no matter how ludicrous we think that they are, or do we have the right to decide what we like and what we don't?
Thanks, Cary -- I was beginning to think that name-calling and avoiding the question were going to be the only responses I'd get.
 
Don't be such an insufferable little pimple.

I'm quite certain that, by now, you've read a number of posts, in various threads, giving examples of other legends (Arthurian ones come to mind) wherein changes have been made over time, some slight, some larger, and yet the characters and setting remain recognizably similar to the original. You cannot seriously claim ignorance of this. Your "changes", as you know perfectly well, go well beyond that--as well as well beyond any changes proposed in this new movie. You are NOT looking for "reasoned responses" to your query--you're looking to show just how clever you think you are. Well, put simply, you're not that clever. Frankly, the kind of argument structure and style you've attempted here is juvenile as you stretch the notion of using exaggeration to make a point well past any "reasonable" point. You are trying to argue there are no degrees of alteration--that any deviation from your precious "canon" no matter how slight or severe, is equally bad. And now you know why no one has bothered to give you a "reasoned response" (and why I won't waste time giving a detailed rebuttal of your post--it isn't worth the effort).
You may not agree with Basil's post... and yes, he used hyperbole there... but his point is entirely valid. And calling people him ugly names doesn't change that.

His point... which I thought was remarkably well-illustrated, frankly... was that any change is a change. How do you decide which changes are "OK" and which are "not OK?"

Nobody would argue that the changes he proposed are OK. Not him, not anyone else. But you can easily take the same arguments which are being tossed out, regularly, by folks on here to denigrate the point-of-view of those who think that the current batch of changes are NOT OK and apply those arguments to any of his "hyperbole" changes... and the arguments you guys keep making are every bit as legitimate and appropriate in that case.

Hyperbole is a great tool to illustrate the absurdity of an opposing viewpoint... IF it fits. In this case, it fits perfectly.

Who decides which "dramatic changes to 40+ years of continuity" are trivial and can be tossed aside, and which aren't? Who decides which "uber-kewl stuff" is allowable and which is ludicrous?

There are only two answers to that. Either "the studio guys get to decide, and we have to take what we've been given and say "thank you kind sir" and keep forking over our money... or "WE get to decide," and if the studio does those things, we can choose not to support the bad decisions they make.

Which is it? Do we have to accept any changes, no matter how ludicrous we think that they are, or do we have the right to decide what we like and what we don't?

The characters (so far as we know) haven't changed.
And why shouldn't they be changed if this film is made primarily for non fans, who presumably know next to nothing about the original show?

It seems only the fans would be concerned, and according to much of the rhetoric here, only obsessed fans, and, according to the rhetoric here, they are no longer the primary audience, nor should they be. So, the logic escapes me as to why the character retain any resemblance to the originals, let alone as much as they apparently do in the trailer.
 
Thanks, Cary -- I was beginning to think that name-calling and avoiding the question were going to be the only responses I'd get.

Well you know, that's all the anti-Trek XI people know how to do. Don't worry too much about it.
From what I can tell, the name-calling came from people in support of the film rather than opposition.


Then you haven't been looking very well. But I guess that the "drooling massages" and "average mouth breather" who will mindlessly accept anything with the name Star Trek were meant to be compliments. And of course being dismissed as a troll for effectively turning away any argument against change was meant as a praise of love.
 
Didn't see those terms in this thread, so you may be right that I didn't look very well. I will say being called a pimple seems a flame, though, and I wouldn't see your being addressed as "drooling massages" or "average mouth breather" as much different in reaction to something you posted.
 
Thanks, Cary -- I was beginning to think that name-calling and avoiding the question were going to be the only responses I'd get.

Well you know, that's all the anti-Trek XI people know how to do. Don't worry too much about it.
From what I can tell, the name-calling came from people in support of the film rather than opposition.

Actually its been coming from both sides.
 
Don't be such an insufferable little pimple.

I'm quite certain that, by now, you've read a number of posts, in various threads, giving examples of other legends (Arthurian ones come to mind) wherein changes have been made over time, some slight, some larger, and yet the characters and setting remain recognizably similar to the original. You cannot seriously claim ignorance of this. Your "changes", as you know perfectly well, go well beyond that--as well as well beyond any changes proposed in this new movie. You are NOT looking for "reasoned responses" to your query--you're looking to show just how clever you think you are. Well, put simply, you're not that clever. Frankly, the kind of argument structure and style you've attempted here is juvenile as you stretch the notion of using exaggeration to make a point well past any "reasonable" point. You are trying to argue there are no degrees of alteration--that any deviation from your precious "canon" no matter how slight or severe, is equally bad. And now you know why no one has bothered to give you a "reasoned response" (and why I won't waste time giving a detailed rebuttal of your post--it isn't worth the effort).
You may not agree with Basil's post... and yes, he used hyperbole there... but his point is entirely valid. And calling people him ugly names doesn't change that.

His point... which I thought was remarkably well-illustrated, frankly... was that any change is a change. How do you decide which changes are "OK" and which are "not OK?"

Nobody would argue that the changes he proposed are OK. Not him, not anyone else. But you can easily take the same arguments which are being tossed out, regularly, by folks on here to denigrate the point-of-view of those who think that the current batch of changes are NOT OK and apply those arguments to any of his "hyperbole" changes... and the arguments you guys keep making are every bit as legitimate and appropriate in that case.

Hyperbole is a great tool to illustrate the absurdity of an opposing viewpoint... IF it fits. In this case, it fits perfectly.

Who decides which "dramatic changes to 40+ years of continuity" are trivial and can be tossed aside, and which aren't? Who decides which "uber-kewl stuff" is allowable and which is ludicrous?

There are only two answers to that. Either "the studio guys get to decide, and we have to take what we've been given and say "thank you kind sir" and keep forking over our money... or "WE get to decide," and if the studio does those things, we can choose not to support the bad decisions they make.

Which is it? Do we have to accept any changes, no matter how ludicrous we think that they are, or do we have the right to decide what we like and what we don't?
Thanks, Cary -- I was beginning to think that name-calling and avoiding the question were going to be the only responses I'd get.
I see--an answer that disagrees with your perspective is "avoiding the question". As for calling you a pimple being a flame--this isn't the The Order of St. Mary's for the Meek. If I'd wanted to actually flame you, you'd be buying an asbestos suit.

Your "argument" remains ludicrous, as well as absurd--but then you already know that. If you'd been interested in a proper exchange, rather than determined to show off what you perceive to be cleverness, you'd have employed a measured amount of exaggeration to prove your point.
 
Didn't see those terms in this thread, so you may be right that I didn't look very well. I will say being called a pimple seems a flame, though, and I wouldn't see your being addressed as "drooling massages" or "average mouth breather" as much different in reaction to something you posted.

"Drooling masses" sorry. And yup, you didn't look well enough in the forum.
 
Oh, you're talking about other threads -- I was referring to this one. In that case, I certainly don't feel that name-calling in some other thread justifies name-calling against me or anyone else in this one.
 
Regarding the Gary Mitchell thing, I've just read something very interesting about the Peter David novel Q-Squared:

SPOILERS FOR Q-SQUARED.........
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In David's book, the events of Where No Man Has Gone Before are said to take place in an alternate universe to the normal Trek one (This is done mainly to explain Kirk's middle initial being R rather than T).
 
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