Sort of like a tumor?
You know, this ship is starting to grow on me.
The New Enterprise Reveald
- Thread starter Jefferies
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Sort of like a tumor?
You know, this ship is starting to grow on me.
Sort of like a tumor?
You know, this ship is starting to grow on me.
Zing!
After roughly 40 years of watching the Grey Lady, I have to admit I'm really liking this new incarnation the more I see of her. 
I can get used to it.
Exactly. The characters showed no concern whatever about flying in atmosphere. Their concern for gaining altitude was to avoid detection.
On the basis of canon evidence presented in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday," atmospheric flight is not a problem for the Enterprise.
Technically, it's not "orbit" if you're in the atmosphere anyway...
The main issue I have with the "atmospheric flight" idea is that there's no indication that the ship was designed with lift (either aerodynamic, propulsive, or field-based) in mind. There are no downwards-facing thrusters except for the RCS-type steering thrusters. And the idea of building in an atmospheric "antigrav lift" system, while plausible in-continuity, seems not to be something which would have been built into the ship (even with m/am reactions, you're still paying a penalty for every unnecessary ounce of mass you carry around, including what would inevitably be a rather massive "lift system"... think of it as reducing the "antimatter fuel economy" of the Enterprise from 17,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles per gallon to 15,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles per gallon.
Unless the ship was designed to operate, regularly, in an atmosphere, this simply doesn't make sense.
For the TOS episode in question, well... the ship was probably flying somewhat awkwardly, with a significant angle-of-attack, with only the downward-facing thrust of the impulse engines providing the equivalent of "lift"... totally unsuitable if the impulse drive isn't providing a constant forward acceleration... the only way for the ship to effectively "hover" would be for it to be pointing straight upwards!
Yes, the one where the Enterprise flew like it was being piloted by Wile E Coyote and was animated at Termite Terrace. All that was missing was Carl Stalling music and the "beee-WOOP!" sound efects. I laughed till my sides hurt.
And, ya know, fan films have no bearing on (forgive me) "canon."
Great work ancient however one critique is that i think the deflector disk is to small compare to photo from the trailer(new Enterprise leaving the space station) other then that great work.Here's a front view. Proportions ara guesstimations.
Regarding the new Enterprise design and why i think it is improvement on TOS Enterprise is that they seems have resolved thin and fragile neck on TOS Enterprise by making the new Enterprise neck thicker and longer. The pylons on the new Enterprise is also wider and look better connected to the engineering hull then the original Enterprise.
I however my one dislike is that i think the nacelles length is ok but thickness is 10-15% too large on the new Enterprise. Specially if we look at the front view.
I like the original better!Here's a front view. Proportions ara guesstimations.
Re: The New Enterprise Revealed
One thing, though, in that very episode, Kirk et al are amazed by what they're seeing. Even though Ardana is a member world of the Federation, you forget that the Federation of TOS is modelled on the UN of the 1950s and 1960s... member worlds use the Federation Council to bicker, not govern, and certainly not to share their crap with everyone else.
One thing, though, in that very episode, Kirk et al are amazed by what they're seeing. Even though Ardana is a member world of the Federation, you forget that the Federation of TOS is modelled on the UN of the 1950s and 1960s... member worlds use the Federation Council to bicker, not govern, and certainly not to share their crap with everyone else.
Re: The New Enterprise Revealed
Sure, the Federation could design starships to hover by antigravity... if they were intended to be landable. But if that was the case, they'd also be designed to be stable when landed (say, like the original "study-model" Voyager was before it got "blobby-fied"). The 1701 design, just like the "production Voyager," makes no sense as a landable design. And if the ship isn't intended to do that, why would you waste time, energy, volume, and MASS including hardware that serves no useful purpose so far as the ship's mission is concerned?
It's not just the availability of the technology... it's also the PURPOSING of technology.
One thing, though, in that very episode, Kirk et al are amazed by what they're seeing. Even though Ardana is a member world of the Federation, you forget that the Federation of TOS is modelled on the UN of the 1950s and 1960s... member worlds use the Federation Council to bicker, not govern, and certainly not to share their crap with everyone else.
Sure, the Federation could design starships to hover by antigravity... if they were intended to be landable. But if that was the case, they'd also be designed to be stable when landed (say, like the original "study-model" Voyager was before it got "blobby-fied"). The 1701 design, just like the "production Voyager," makes no sense as a landable design. And if the ship isn't intended to do that, why would you waste time, energy, volume, and MASS including hardware that serves no useful purpose so far as the ship's mission is concerned?
Here's a clue: atmospheric aircraft don't maintain or "retain orbit." They fly or glide. So of course what Spock says makes sense; it's nearly self-evident.
There's nothing in the dialogue or action of "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" to suggest that the Enterprise is endangered as a vehicle by flying in the atmosphere or close to the ground. Really, the episode is canon evidence for the ship being able to do so.
In fact the word orbit is a little missleading. When in reality all that is happening is the vehicle is falling around the planet.
Here's a front view. Proportions ara guesstimations.
Just goes to show you how close they are.
RAMA
If these proportions are accurate and it seems they're pretty close, then this ship is a lot closer to the original proportions than I thought, if redistributed in an unattractive fashion.
but I thought the trailers showed the ship to be about 150% the length of the original 1701?
but I thought the trailers showed the ship to be about 150% the length of the original 1701?
Re: The New Enterprise Revealed
I would argue that such "hovering" was implied by many episodes. How often did the Enterprise, when deprived of power, immediately start spiraling toward the surface?
How often did Kirk have to wait to beam up before the orbit of the Enterprise brought the ship overhead where he could?
How could a shuttlecraft even "fly?"
And antigrav was ubiquitous, even advanced enough to be used in portable units like the ones in Obsession and the Changeling (if the two in the Changeling were maxed out on capacity, then one of those units could possibly "lift" 5500 lbs.)
Oh and Kirk et. al. were amazed at the "finest example of sustained anti-gravity in the galaxy."
It's not just the availability of the technology... it's also the PURPOSING of technology.
One thing, though, in that very episode, Kirk et al are amazed by what they're seeing. Even though Ardana is a member world of the Federation, you forget that the Federation of TOS is modelled on the UN of the 1950s and 1960s... member worlds use the Federation Council to bicker, not govern, and certainly not to share their crap with everyone else.
Sure, the Federation could design starships to hover by antigravity... if they were intended to be landable. But if that was the case, they'd also be designed to be stable when landed (say, like the original "study-model" Voyager was before it got "blobby-fied"). The 1701 design, just like the "production Voyager," makes no sense as a landable design. And if the ship isn't intended to do that, why would you waste time, energy, volume, and MASS including hardware that serves no useful purpose so far as the ship's mission is concerned?
I would argue that such "hovering" was implied by many episodes. How often did the Enterprise, when deprived of power, immediately start spiraling toward the surface?
How often did Kirk have to wait to beam up before the orbit of the Enterprise brought the ship overhead where he could?
How could a shuttlecraft even "fly?"
And antigrav was ubiquitous, even advanced enough to be used in portable units like the ones in Obsession and the Changeling (if the two in the Changeling were maxed out on capacity, then one of those units could possibly "lift" 5500 lbs.)
Oh and Kirk et. al. were amazed at the "finest example of sustained anti-gravity in the galaxy."
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