X-Men 4

[Captain Craig]

I'm all for X4 starring/costarring Rogure, Iceman, Colussus, Beast, Angel and some others.

I'm not up for calling it First Class. It shamelessly steals the name for no other reason than the comic guys know it. Furthermore, the movie audience should recognize the title as a farce if it indeed has the above mentioned characters because they know those characters aren't the First Class. It was established already who the First Class of Xavier Mutants is and thats Jean, Scott, Hank etc.

I'm willing to give Mr.Gossip Girl some room. Maybe he'll surprise, maybe not as long as its a continuation and not a do over or go another way.

 

[Siwilliams]

I don't see why people dislike X3, X1 and X2 were all talk, so it was refreshing to have X3 be all action, so cool, so cool

All action =/= Good movie

With X3, Disagree there. X1 and X2 are bore fests, X3 is total coolness

 

[Siwilliams]

Just reboot every movie. If Nolan bows out of making the next Batman movie. REBOOT again.

The second Craig quits Bond....REBOOT.

I would not call the last two Bond films reboots, they are more like remakes.

 

[exodus]

Just reboot every movie. If Nolan bows out of making the next Batman movie. REBOOT again.

The second Craig quits Bond....REBOOT.

Like there wasn't Tim Burton or Joel Schulmaker before Nolan?

Or

How about Connery, Moore, Dalton & Brosnan's Bond's were already reformatted for each actor and the time period they're in.

BSG vs. NuBSG anyone?
TOS vs. TNG?

How about all the Jaws sequals that aren't directly connected?
How many foregien films have been remade for the American audience?

Hollywood has been doing "reboots" of fictional movies & shows for years and nobody ever noticed or cared. Suddenly people here are acting like it's a brand new concept in the film industry.

 

[Siwilliams]

Just reboot every movie. If Nolan bows out of making the next Batman movie. REBOOT again.

The second Craig quits Bond....REBOOT.

Like there wasn't Tim Burton or Joel Schulmaker before Nolan?

Or

How about Connery, Moore, Dalton & Brosnan's Bond's were already reformatted for each actor and the time period they're in.

BSG vs. NuBSG anyone?
TOS vs. TNG?

How about all the Jaws sequals that aren't directly connected?
How many foregien films have been remade for the American audience?

Hollywood has been doing "reboots" of fictional movies & shows for years and nobody ever noticed or cared. Suddenly people here are acting like it's a brand new concept in the film industry.

TNG is not a reboot of TOS, maybe the first season, but that's it

Bond, they made connections with all five, whereas Craig's bond throws away the previous 20 films

Batman 1-4 all have connections, even though Batman 3 and 4 are total crap. Batman 1 and 2 = awesome

New BSG is totally a remake

Who the hell likes the Jaws movies?

 

[grabmygoblin]

I don't see why people dislike X3, X1 and X2 were all talk, so it was refreshing to have X3 be all action, so cool, so cool

All action =/= Good movie

With X3, Disagree there. X1 and X2 are bore fests, X3 is total coolness

guess we'll have to agree to disagree, X3 bored the hell out of me, whereas the talk in X-Men and X2 kept me extremely engaged.

 

[Siwilliams]

All action =/= Good movie

With X3, Disagree there. X1 and X2 are bore fests, X3 is total coolness

guess we'll have to agree to disagree, X3 bored the hell out of me, whereas the talk in X-Men and X2 kept me extremely engaged.

But the talk was basically the same in both movies, that is why the battles in X3 were welcomed, X3 though also had talk

 

[roguephoenix]

This should be focused on the New X-Men:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_X-Men

I sure hope this doesn't turn out to be X-Men 90210....

wow i had the EXACT same comment on a diff thread lol. here's to hoping there's no wolvercrap. >_<

With X3, Disagree there. X1 and X2 are bore fests, X3 is total coolness

LOL

 

[Siwilliams]

With X3, Disagree there. X1 and X2 are bore fests, X3 is total coolness

LOL

Yeah, I know right?....it is so funny that x1 and x2 are complete bore fests, it really humorous

 

[exodus]

LOL

Yeah, I know right?....it is so funny that x1 and x2 are complete bore fests, it really humorous

Repeating it over and over won't make it true.

Sorry my man but you won't find much support here for X3 being a good X-Men film. Special EFX don't mean shit without a story of substance to support it.

 

[Siwilliams]

Yeah, I know right?....it is so funny that x1 and x2 are complete bore fests, it really humorous

Repeating it over and over won't make it true.

Sorry my man but you won't find much support here for X3 being a good X-Men film. Special EFX don't mean shit without a story of substance to support it.

Don't have to repeat it, because I know X3 is superior. I did not say special effects make a good movie

 

[RookieBatman]

Yeah, I know right?....it is so funny that x1 and x2 are complete bore fests, it really humorous

Repeating it over and over won't make it true.

Sorry my man but you won't find much support here for X3 being a good X-Men film. Special EFX don't mean shit without a story of substance to support it.

I'll throw in my support for X3 (though I already mentioned it upthread). I thought the talk in X3 was good, and the action was a lot better than 1 and 2. I never understood, even before 3 came out, why people loved 2 so much. Aside from the opening Nightcrawler white house scene, there's really just not that much going on...for the whole rest of the movie.

 

[Siwilliams]

Repeating it over and over won't make it true.

Sorry my man but you won't find much support here for X3 being a good X-Men film. Special EFX don't mean shit without a story of substance to support it.

I'll throw in my support for X3 (though I already mentioned it upthread). I thought the talk in X3 was good, and the action was a lot better than 1 and 2. I never understood, even before 3 came out, why people loved 2 so much. Aside from the opening Nightcrawler white house scene, there's really just not that much going on...for the whole rest of the movie.

Exactly, though the Wolverine and Lady Death Strike scene was good

 

[RookieBatman]

I'll throw in my support for X3 (though I already mentioned it upthread). I thought the talk in X3 was good, and the action was a lot better than 1 and 2. I never understood, even before 3 came out, why people loved 2 so much. Aside from the opening Nightcrawler white house scene, there's really just not that much going on...for the whole rest of the movie.

Exactly, though the Wolverine and Lady Death Strike scene was good

I'll tell you what I disliked about that fight; it's something that plagues a lot of superhero movies (almost all of them, actually, even X3, to an extent). It's the tendecy to set up an opponent for our hero that's so powerful that he (or she) can't possibly beat them through traditional means, so they have to use some gimmick or mechanical plot device to do it. Iron Man defeated Iron Monger by blowing up the nuclear power plant thingie, Batman ('89) beat the Joker by pulling him off a building, Superman saved Lois by nothing less than reversing time itself (take that, Post-Crisis Supes!), Spider-Man defeated Doc Ock by unmasking, Green Goblin defeated himself with his own glider, on and on ad nauseum. I would much rather see a fight where the good guy actually just bests the bad guy squarely through higher strength, prowess, etc, then pulling out a Plot Device from his utility belt and zapping the villain with it. Admittedly, there are gimmick defeats aplenty in the comics, but there are also for more common examples of the hero defeating the villain by ordinary means than there are in movies. I'd say Batman Begins is a good example, since the train only crashed after Ra's was already subdued, and dare I say it, Daredevil did, if nothing else, feature not one but two fair fights with no gimmick defeat (although the first was marred by the silly CGI jumping). There really aren't many occurrences of a decent knockdown drag-out slugfest in the climaxes of superhero movies, and yet that should be what superhero action should be founded on. Yes, Iron Man was good, but which of these taglines sounds better? "Watch Iron Man battle Iron Monger!" or "Watch Pepper push a button that blows something up!"? See what I mean? It doesn't totally ruin the movie, but it does lessen the visceral impact of the villain being defeated. (Which was also the problem with X1--there was no final battle at all, except for the fight between Logan and Sabertooth, which was far too short, and featured too much FX over actual exchanges of blows.)
Anyway, that's what I disliked about Logan vs. Lady Deathstrike, and it's also my little rant about superhero movies in general. Certain snobbish people might think it ridiculous to say that a guy who prefers X3 has high standards, but I stand by that statement nonetheless.
So that's my opinion, take it how you will.

 

[Siwilliams]

Exactly, though the Wolverine and Lady Death Strike scene was good

I'll tell you what I disliked about that fight; it's something that plagues a lot of superhero movies (almost all of them, actually, even X3, to an extent). It's the tendecy to set up an opponent for our hero that's so powerful that he (or she) can't possibly beat them through traditional means, so they have to use some gimmick or mechanical plot device to do it. Iron Man defeated Iron Monger by blowing up the nuclear power plant thingie, Batman ('89) beat the Joker by pulling him off a building, Superman saved Lois by nothing less than reversing time itself (take that, Post-Crisis Supes!), Spider-Man defeated Doc Ock by unmasking, Green Goblin defeated himself with his own glider, on and on ad nauseum. I would much rather see a fight where the good guy actually just bests the bad guy squarely through higher strength, prowess, etc, then pulling out a Plot Device from his utility belt and zapping the villain with it. Admittedly, there are gimmick defeats aplenty in the comics, but there are also for more common examples of the hero defeating the villain by ordinary means than there are in movies. I'd say Batman Begins is a good example, since the train only crashed after Ra's was already subdued, and dare I say it, Daredevil did, if nothing else, feature not one but two fair fights with no gimmick defeat (although the first was marred by the silly CGI jumping). There really aren't many occurrences of a decent knockdown drag-out slugfest in the climaxes of superhero movies, and yet that should be what superhero action should be founded on. Yes, Iron Man was good, but which of these taglines sounds better? "Watch Iron Man battle Iron Monger!" or "Watch Pepper push a button that blows something up!"? See what I mean? It doesn't totally ruin the movie, but it does lessen the visceral impact of the villain being defeated. (Which was also the problem with X1--there was no final battle at all, except for the fight between Logan and Sabertooth, which was far too short, and featured too much FX over actual exchanges of blows.)
Anyway, that's what I disliked about Logan vs. Lady Deathstrike, and it's also my little rant about superhero movies in general. Certain snobbish people might think it ridiculous to say that a guy who prefers X3 has high standards, but I stand by that statement nonetheless.
So that's my opinion, take it how you will.

Makes sense. What about Batman Returns? That goes through a different ending than the usual superhero movies. Also The Incredible Hulk shows that both sides are strong and the good one defeated the bad one, but did not necessarily kill him. With Iron Man, I am not exacly sure how he would have defeated Iron Monger differently

 

[RookieBatman]

Makes sense. What about Batman Returns? That goes through a different ending than the usual superhero movies. Also The Incredible Hulk shows that both sides are strong and the good one defeated the bad one, but did not necessarily kill him. With Iron Man, I am not exacly sure how he would have defeated Iron Monger differently

I didn't like Batman Returns, and the ending did nothing to help that. I didn't see Incredible Hulk, but if the big fight between Hulk and Abomination was finished just by main force without any gimmicks, than I might have to take a look.
As for Iron Monger, that's really the problem. What the filmmakers did (and I think this was really their only significant mistake) was create a villain that their hero actually wasn't capable of defeating. Sure, that's all well and good for an explosive collectible miniseries in the comics, once every five years or so, but if you do it too often in the movies, all you're really saying is that your hero is just unqualified. Sure, he's heroic, for hanging in the pocket and taking all those hits, but if all he's doing is being an armored punching bag, Steve Urkel could do that. The idea, in my own personal opinion (that is, admittedly, probably a lot more narrow than most) is that the hero should be able to beat the villain through strength and skill, or at least endurance. If Iron Monger can simply hit harder than Iron Man, then Iron Man needs to find a way to score hits without himself getting hit. My kinda story features a hero going toe to toe with the villain and ultimately being the better fighter, not the better gimmick-user.

 

[Siwilliams]

Makes sense. What about Batman Returns? That goes through a different ending than the usual superhero movies. Also The Incredible Hulk shows that both sides are strong and the good one defeated the bad one, but did not necessarily kill him. With Iron Man, I am not exacly sure how he would have defeated Iron Monger differently

I didn't like Batman Returns, and the ending did nothing to help that. I didn't see Incredible Hulk, but if the big fight between Hulk and Abomination was finished just by main force without any gimmicks, than I might have to take a look..

Oh, Batman Returns is full of awesomeness and so is Batman (1989)

Oops, I should have put a spoiler warning for The Incredible Hulk (2008)

 

[exodus]

Repeating it over and over won't make it true.

Sorry my man but you won't find much support here for X3 being a good X-Men film. Special EFX don't mean shit without a story of substance to support it.

Don't have to repeat it, because I know X3 is superior. I did not say special effects make a good movie

Nearly every example you've given to support why X3 was good were the special EFX fighting scenes backed up by X1 & X2 had too much talk. So yeah, you kinda are.

 

[Trent Roman]

I'll tell you what I disliked about that fight; it's something that plagues a lot of superhero movies (almost all of them, actually, even X3, to an extent). It's the tendecy to set up an opponent for our hero that's so powerful that he (or she) can't possibly beat them through traditional means, so they have to use some gimmick or mechanical plot device to do it. (...) I would much rather see a fight where the good guy actually just bests the bad guy squarely through higher strength, prowess, etc, then pulling out a Plot Device from his utility belt and zapping the villain with it.(...) There really aren't many occurrences of a decent knockdown drag-out slugfest in the climaxes of superhero movies, and yet that should be what superhero action should be founded on.

I disagree entirely. The superhero has been using those conventional abilities to defeat conventional antagonists throughout the entirety of the film; if a mere exercise of those self-same powers (or tech, in Iron Man's case) is all that's required to defeat the principal villain, then that villain doesn't merit the title in the first place; he or she is merely a glorified version of the same kind of drudges the hero has been beating up so far. There's no drama in the superhero simply finding and beating the snot out of the villain: a good villain should challenge the hero, and that means being resistant to the hero's usual methodology. Also, it does not convey a very interesting message if the hero simply beats his antagonist to death (or into submission); merely that might makes right, and the hero is victorious simply for being stronger than anybody else. Phooey, I say. What the development of unconventional tactics, awareness of surroundings and, yes, even tool use communicates is that there's ultimately nothing more powerful than an agile mind; the hero is victorious because he or she embodies a synergies of strength, intelligence, creativity and willpower. And that, unlike superpowers or armoured suits, is something universal, something we can all relate to some degree or another.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[exodus]

I'll tell you what I disliked about that fight; it's something that plagues a lot of superhero movies (almost all of them, actually, even X3, to an extent). It's the tendecy to set up an opponent for our hero that's so powerful that he (or she) can't possibly beat them through traditional means, so they have to use some gimmick or mechanical plot device to do it. (...) I would much rather see a fight where the good guy actually just bests the bad guy squarely through higher strength, prowess, etc, then pulling out a Plot Device from his utility belt and zapping the villain with it.(...) There really aren't many occurrences of a decent knockdown drag-out slugfest in the climaxes of superhero movies, and yet that should be what superhero action should be founded on.

I disagree entirely. The superhero has been using those conventional abilities to defeat conventional antagonists throughout the entirety of the film; if a mere exercise of those self-same powers (or tech, in Iron Man's case) is all that's required to defeat the principal villain, then that villain doesn't merit the title in the first place; he or she is merely a glorified version of the same kind of drudges the hero has been beating up so far. There's no drama in the superhero simply finding and beating the snot out of the villain: a good villain should challenge the hero, and that means being resistant to the hero's usual methodology. Also, it does not convey a very interesting message if the hero simply beats his antagonist to death (or into submission); merely that might makes right, and the hero is victorious simply for being stronger than anybody else. Phooey, I say. What the development of unconventional tactics, awareness of surroundings and, yes, even tool use communicates is that there's ultimately nothing more powerful than an agile mind; the hero is victorious because he or she embodies a synergies of strength, intelligence, creativity and willpower. And that, unlike superpowers or armoured suits, is something universal, something we can all relate to some degree or another.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Very well said.