B5 Post Series Movie: In The Beginning
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If all of B5 had been like this, it would really have been an excellent series.
As much as I liked ItB, I wished that it was either a mini-series or a three-book trilogy so that we could get a better, longer look at the Earth-Minbari War. IIRC, JMS had originally pitched to Dell, the publisher of the first batch of B5 novels, a book (or books) that covered the Earth-Minbari War in a similar fashion to how World War II was done in Herman Wouk's Winds of War and War and Remembrance. We'd have seen the winds of war, then the war itself and the aftermath (kinda like The Shadow War in the series). We'd also have seen what all the characters were doing during the war.
I'd have preferred a longer look for one reason especially-- more Sinclair.
I'd have preferred a longer look for one reason especially-- more Sinclair.
I enjoyed the movies. The standalones seemed a little odd when they were first broadcast, because they weren't part of the arc, but they were still good. I actually enjoyed them more when I watched them again later on DVD.
Have you ever read Peter David's novelization of ITB? It does go into a lot more detail than the movie, and aside from the limits of its relative brevity, is a lot like what you describe.
Yeah I've read it. My favorite part is the "kiss with future history" when Sinclair and Sheridan met at the maglev train station on their way to their respective assignments, and Londo's narrative line about Sinclair being "a man who in a crowded room was still alone."
Still I longed for more of a Herman Wouk WaR tome, but that's just me since WaR is a favorite book of mine.
Wasn't that in Mrs. JMS's book To Dream in The City of Sorrows?
Been awhile since I read the City of Sorrows book but I don't remember that in there. Sinclair & Sheridan did meet during the food riots on Mars though, and I think that was mentioned in the series.
I like In the Beginning a lot. This movie was 'the better-longer look' at the E-M war -- "Atonement" was the episode it expanded on and was originally planned as a 3-part episode before jms had to juggle season 4 / 5. What else would there be to tell really beyond what we saw in the movie? I think the movie was perfectly paced and quite enjoyable.
As for my personal taste on the movies, my favorite is River of Souls. I don't really understand a lot of the criticism towards it; but if you are expecting another war movie you will be disappointed. I thought it was a lot of fun!
I like In the Beginning a lot. This movie was 'the better-longer look' at the E-M war -- "Atonement" was the episode it expanded on and was originally planned as a 3-part episode before jms had to juggle season 4 / 5. What else would there be to tell really beyond what we saw in the movie? I think the movie was perfectly paced and quite enjoyable.
As for my personal taste on the movies, my favorite is River of Souls. I don't really understand a lot of the criticism towards it; but if you are expecting another war movie you will be disappointed. I thought it was a lot of fun!
In the Beginning is overrated IMO. I enjoyed it, but wouldn't go out of my way to watch it again.
A Call to Arms was my favourite. Thirdspace was tolerable, A River of Souls a waste of film, LOTR written for 10 year olds (what happened to the zen-like Rangers we all knew and loved?) and Lost Tales made me fall asleep.
A Call to Arms was my favourite. Thirdspace was tolerable, A River of Souls a waste of film, LOTR written for 10 year olds (what happened to the zen-like Rangers we all knew and loved?) and Lost Tales made me fall asleep.
Indeed it was. If I remember correctly Sinclair accidentally dumped the contents of his dinner tray into Sheridan's lap in the academy cafeteria and since Sheridan was a 4th year upperclassman jarhead and Sinclair was a pleb...it didn't go over well. They weren't "friends" until the Mars food riots when Sinclair helped a fellow EF officer beat off a bunch of rioters. Only after did he realise it was Sheridan.
As for ITB; I always get slightly annoyed when people label something as "overrated", since that's a totally subjective term. I mean overrated by whom? Personally I thought it was good, though I enjoyed 'A Call to Arms' a little more. Thirdspace was ok and had possibly the best Zack scene in the entire series; 'River of Souls' was a bit odd due to the presence of Lovejoy (no, I don't expect the yanks to get that) and the slightly off kilter tone. Lost Tales was great for what it was but LotR....dose enyone know what went wrong there? I mean I know JMS's writing can be ropey at times and all writers are at the mercy of the director but still; what the hell happened there!?
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When the term "overrated" is applied, yes it is subjective but it is used generally in response to the number of people who hold a positive viewpoint on a work. Consider it shorthand for "it's not as good as everyone seems to think it is".
As for the problems with "Legend of the Rangers", I don't thinkit's quite as bad as most folks make it out to be ... but I definitely think it's the weakest work jms has created. The music and visuals were beautiful, and the acting hit-and-miss but that can be improved easily enough. The problem for me was the story seemed to be a retread in this particualr episode. JMS seemed... tired, overwrought and just plain burned out. A rested man would probably have done better, but this just seemed to be more a case of falling back on what had been done before becaue he was too tired to think of anything else.
As for the problems with "Legend of the Rangers", I don't thinkit's quite as bad as most folks make it out to be ... but I definitely think it's the weakest work jms has created. The music and visuals were beautiful, and the acting hit-and-miss but that can be improved easily enough. The problem for me was the story seemed to be a retread in this particualr episode. JMS seemed... tired, overwrought and just plain burned out. A rested man would probably have done better, but this just seemed to be more a case of falling back on what had been done before becaue he was too tired to think of anything else.
^^ I agree, and I also think the casting was kind of weak. If Sciffy wanted a B5 series, they really should have resurrected Crusade; that would have worked (most likely).
At a guess, I'd say that Sciffy wanted the youth factor. As JMS said in one of the script books when discussing how his idea for a recurring pilot character was shot down and he ended up casting the part of Keffer:
I'd've enjoyed seeing the relationship between David Martell and Dulann develop. I thought they had a good chemistry together.
Jan
See... I had no real problem with the casting. Some of the performances werea little weak or a bit hammy, but that is nearly always the case in the first season of a show. TNG, B5, DS9, BSG, and so many others ... nearly all have rought spots at first. They have to get used to the roles, the other actors, the directors, the material.... all of it. I'm not saying that the casting for LotR was perfect, but they weren't so bad that I couldn't realistically see them improving as a first season progressed.
That said, I would have MUCH rather seen "Crusade" be restarted. It had such excellent potential, and an established story and look and cast. Then again, it's entirely possible that jms could not get that cast back together... which I think was a requirement for him.
That said, I would have MUCH rather seen "Crusade" be restarted. It had such excellent potential, and an established story and look and cast. Then again, it's entirely possible that jms could not get that cast back together... which I think was a requirement for him.
I rather suspect JMS might have had the sneaky intention of revisited 'Crusade' had 'LotR' gone to a full series. Simply put, LotR took place in 2265 while Crusade started in 2267 so if LotR got that far then by season 3 they'd be overlapping. Infact, given that the Rangers were tasked with being the vanguard of the Excalibur's mission, I wouldn't be at all surprised if an eventual crossover was planned from day dot.
As for the casting, out of the whole crew the only characters I even remember by name are David and Dulan, which shows how much of an impression the others made. Ok, that's not strictly true, I remember 'Tirk' but still, Martell and Dulann were the only ones that had any kind of chemistry. I suspect part of the problem was either a lack of prep and rehersal time so most of the cast were just reading their characters off the page as it were. Most of them seamed as if they could barely get the lines out.
As for the casting, out of the whole crew the only characters I even remember by name are David and Dulan, which shows how much of an impression the others made. Ok, that's not strictly true, I remember 'Tirk' but still, Martell and Dulann were the only ones that had any kind of chemistry. I suspect part of the problem was either a lack of prep and rehersal time so most of the cast were just reading their characters off the page as it were. Most of them seamed as if they could barely get the lines out.
Everytime I watch this particular portion now, I always get distracted by the old woman extra who is entirely distracting in how she completely emotionlessly just keeps looking up at the ceiling... down at her kid... up at the ceiling... down at her kid...
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