What about season 4 ???

[commodore64]

In Storm Front and Bond, I agree with you, but in my opinion, the only bad thing about Home was the special effects, which were quite laughable at times, even for a TV show (Shuttlepod arrival at the beginning, and that lava field scene), but I really loved the story, and especially the T'Les character. Joanna Cassidy totally nailed it.

To me, this was not Vulcan ... unless you see Vulcan as Phoenix. The customs weren't strange, the place didn't seem unique or interesting and most of the characters seemed like cookie-cutter versions of themselves. Nothing was fleshed out, not even the interesting dramas worked out from season 3 -- ergo a major disappointment for me. For example, T'Pol took drugs in season 3 and ... nothing. Archer had a night of sex, which seemed to save his soul (which had been troubled up until then), Tucker's family that seemed so important to him was barely a mention and he dodged them to see Vulcan ....

Boring.

 

[Mach5]

To me, this was not Vulcan ... unless you see Vulcan as Phoenix. The customs weren't strange, the place didn't seem unique or interesting...

I dunno, I liked the look of Vulcan, and as for the strange customs, we already saw all that in TOS.

Nothing was fleshed out, not even the interesting dramas worked out from season 3 -- ergo a major disappointment for me. For example, T'Pol took drugs in season 3 and ... nothing.

She kicked her trellium addiction, didn't she? And it's consequences were still very visible throughout the ep (she was basically on the verge of breakdown the whole time, especially during the lava field scene).

Archer had a night of sex, which seemed to save his soul (which had been troubled up until then), Tucker's family that seemed so important to him was barely a mention and he dodged them to see Vulcan ...Boring.

'Archer getting laid' plot was the lamest part of the episode, and it took too much screen time. Home should have definitely been a two parter, so that the other characters (Sato, Reed, Phlox, Maywe... meh, not him ) could be given something to do.
I agree that Trip's indifference toward his folks made little sense, but then again, meeting T'Mom was a pretty big deal to him I guess.

 

[Penguin]

In the beginning of HOme when T-Pol asked Trip to go with her to Vulcan I thought she was taking him there for Mom to give him the once over and if she approved T-Pol was going to confess her feelings (Love?) for him and perhaps they might have got Engaged or even married on Vulcan in a Vulcan marrriage ceremony. Never dreamed at the start that it would come out t he way did. which in restrospect was a complete waste of that part of the episode as Koss later divorces t-Pol.

 

[mic of orion]

To me, this was not Vulcan ... unless you see Vulcan as Phoenix. The customs weren't strange, the place didn't seem unique or interesting...

I dunno, I liked the look of Vulcan, and as for the strange customs, we already saw all that in TOS.

Nothing was fleshed out, not even the interesting dramas worked out from season 3 -- ergo a major disappointment for me. For example, T'Pol took drugs in season 3 and ... nothing.

She kicked her trellium addiction, didn't she? And it's consequences were still very visible throughout the ep (she was basically on the verge of breakdown the whole time, especially during the lava field scene).

Archer had a night of sex, which seemed to save his soul (which had been troubled up until then), Tucker's family that seemed so important to him was barely a mention and he dodged them to see Vulcan ...Boring.

'Archer getting laid' plot was the lamest part of the episode, and it took too much screen time. Home should have definitely been a two parter, so that the other characters (Sato, Reed, Phlox, Maywe... meh, not him ) could be given something to do.
I agree that Trip's indifference toward his folks made little sense, but then again, meeting T'Mom was a pretty big deal to him I guess.

Nice to see Croatian forumer

 

[crouteru]

Season four is great as a collection of multi-arced episodes, but there's no one episode that I'd call classic. It really has to be watched in quick succession, which makes it ideal for DVD purchase.

I pretty much liked all the two and three episode arcs, with the exception of Storm Front, which was just a bit too silly (though finally putting an end to the ill-concieved Temperol Cold War).

It was actually the single episodes that suffered the most. The two good ones were Home and Observer Effect. Daedalus was ok but a bit dull, Bound was a nod to The Original Seies rather dated views on sex, which looks so bad in the 21st century. Worst of all was These Are The Voyages..., which seemed to exist solely to give Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis a bit of extra cash.

On balance, season three is best for pure sci-fi entertainment, while season four is best for fans most familiar with the Star Trek franchise.

 

[JiNX-01]

^^^ What about In a Mirror Darkly? Capt. Bonkers, T'Peevil, Reedvil, Phlevil, Evil Trinneevil, She 'Ho? (nods to Keckler!)

 

[trj]

^^^ What about In a Mirror Darkly? Capt. Bonkers, T'Peevil, Reedvil, Phlevil, Evil Trinneevil, She 'Ho? (nods to Keckler!)

Evil Trinneevil? ha ,good one

 

[JiNX-01]

^^^ What about In a Mirror Darkly? Capt. Bonkers, T'Peevil, Reedvil, Phlevil, Evil Trinneevil, She 'Ho? (nods to Keckler!)

Evil Trinneevil? ha ,good one

You like that? You'd love this:

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/enterprise/in_a_mirror_darkly_part_i.php

 

[Seven of Five]

Season 4 was a bit inconsistent, but I appreciated what the writers were trying to do. The season was certainly much better than seasons 1 and 2, but the third was my favourite. I think it was just better executed in general.

Storm Front was most boring and inconsequential. The Alien Nazi cliffhanger in Zero Hour was shite to begin with, so they would have had some trouble coming up with an exciting continuation, but it was yukky.

Home should have been a two-parter to better explore where the characters were after the events in season 3. Archer having sex to make him feel better, and Trip avoiding his family rung quite false.

The Augment arc was okay. Brent Spiner was well cast, surprisingly. There was some tension throughout the episodes but lack of characterisation for the eeeeeeeevil Augments hurt the story.

The Vulcan arc was probably my favourite tale of the season. It was wrapped up a little too neatly with ENT Vulcans suddenly transformed into TOS Vulcans, but all of the Vulcan mythology and politics was great. Solvar suddenly became amazing with these episodes!

Daedelus was really boring. Like, really boring.

Observer Effect was a nice little episode, with a slick reveal at the end of who the aliens inhabiting the crew were.

The Andorian arc was perhaps my second favourite story, if you ignored the superfluous, silly Aenar episode. The story of the Romulans corrupting the local powers' foreign policy was good, and I liked how the inklings of a Federation were there with these races cooperating together.

The Klingon arc was a bit misguided, I thought. Trip leaves the Enterprise for two whole episodes. Wow. It was nice how this story tied into the earlier Augment arc, but I was sort of lukewarm towards that, and as a result was lukewarm to this. I much preferred DS9's nudge-nudge-wink-wink attitude towards explaining those bloody ridges.

Bound was horrible, almost the worst of the season.

In A Mirror, Darkly was at some times excellent, and at some times a bit boring! I felt that stretching it into two episodes was a waste of time, but I understand how it had to be two episodes in order to afford to build *that* set.

Demons/Terra Prime was pretty good. It was good having a story set back on Earth (well, the solar system), and I understood why some people would be so xenophobic after everything the Enterprise had done in four years. We also had a more effective series ending in Terra Prime.

These Are The Voyages really was a stinker to go out on. The story is sound, and if reworked could have made a decent regular episode. But an episode that views Riker and Troi as the main characters, adds Trip to the growing list of Trek characters killed of in a disappointing way, and then also has the series' main characters going through zero development in the years after Terra Prime, is doomed to fail. The story of Archer helping Shran out one last time is a bit pants to start off with, and of course, Archer never gets to deliver his speech (the one that Trip died for!) because of 'Computer, end program.' If that wasn't enough, the events Riker watches have absolutely nothing to do with his predicament in Pegasus, the episode that supposedly links to this one. A very sour way to end the series, somehow surpassing Endgame in sucky endings.

 

[commodore64]

To me, this was not Vulcan ... unless you see Vulcan as Phoenix. The customs weren't strange, the place didn't seem unique or interesting...

I dunno, I liked the look of Vulcan, and as for the strange customs, we already saw all that in TOS.

Not enough to identify it as Vulcan to me. TOS (including the movies) showed us some neat stuff that made the planet magical and mystical, but ... I thought Vulcan seemed pretty vanilla in Home. For me, I expected to see something not like Earth, which is why I was disappointed with its depiction in Home.

I think that's part of the reason I loved The Forge so much. They managed to really *expand* on Vulcan from TOS. They showed a fairly mysterious people (and what a surprise that Soval can mindmeld and katras), a part of the planet that has significance to the person TOS built up (Surak), weird sandstorms, a follow-up from TOS and TAS on sehlats and also characters who seemed Vulcan. No "Vulcan" was overly emotional.

Why bother taking characters to Vulcan unless to expand on the mythology.

She kicked her trellium addiction, didn't she? And it's consequences were still very visible throughout the ep (she was basically on the verge of breakdown the whole time, especially during the lava field scene).

The writers missed some drama. On her breakdown, would it also make sense to have a friend ask about her emotions? Did Trip just not notice? (Is he that stupid? I don't think so, but he's managed to miss some big cues due to writers.) Her mother noticed and asked, but to no natural progression. In fact, after this episode, her emotionalism is never mentioned again.

'Archer getting laid' plot was the lamest part of the episode, and it took too much screen time. Home should have definitely been a two parter, so that the other characters (Sato, Reed, Phlox, Maywe... meh, not him ) could be given something to do. I agree that Trip's indifference toward his folks made little sense, but then again, meeting T'Mom was a pretty big deal to him I guess.

Why? He made no mention of wanting to get to know T'Pol's parents beforehand.

 

[Mach5]

Not enough to identify it as Vulcan to me. TOS (including the movies) showed us some neat stuff that made the planet magical and mystical, but ... I thought Vulcan seemed pretty vanilla in Home. For me, I expected to see something not like Earth, which is why I was disappointed with its depiction in Home.

Then you'll probably love the look of Vulcan in ST XI (Those few brief shots seen in the trailer looked awesome)

The writers missed some drama. On her breakdown, would it also make sense to have a friend ask about her emotions? Did Trip just not notice? (Is he that stupid? I don't think so, but he's managed to miss some big cues due to writers.) Her mother noticed and asked, but to no natural progression. In fact, after this episode, her emotionalism is never mentioned again.

I agree completely. Like I said, Home would have made an amazing two parter. It had so much potential.

 

[trj]

To me, this was not Vulcan ... unless you see Vulcan as Phoenix. The customs weren't strange, the place didn't seem unique or interesting...

I dunno, I liked the look of Vulcan, and as for the strange customs, we already saw all that in TOS.

Not enough to identify it as Vulcan to me. TOS (including the movies) showed us some neat stuff that made the planet magical and mystical, but ... I thought Vulcan seemed pretty vanilla in Home. For me, I expected to see something not like Earth, which is why I was disappointed with its depiction in Home.

I think that's part of the reason I loved The Forge so much. They managed to really *expand* on Vulcan from TOS. They showed a fairly mysterious people (and what a surprise that Soval can mindmeld and katras), a part of the planet that has significance to the person TOS built up (Surak), weird sandstorms, a follow-up from TOS and TAS on sehlats and also characters who seemed Vulcan. No "Vulcan" was overly emotional.

Why bother taking characters to Vulcan unless to expand on the mythology.

She kicked her trellium addiction, didn't she? And it's consequences were still very visible throughout the ep (she was basically on the verge of breakdown the whole time, especially during the lava field scene).

The writers missed some drama. On her breakdown, would it also make sense to have a friend ask about her emotions? Did Trip just not notice? (Is he that stupid? I don't think so, but he's managed to miss some big cues due to writers.) Her mother noticed and asked, but to no natural progression. In fact, after this episode, her emotionalism is never mentioned again.

'Archer getting laid' plot was the lamest part of the episode, and it took too much screen time. Home should have definitely been a two parter, so that the other characters (Sato, Reed, Phlox, Maywe... meh, not him ) could be given something to do. I agree that Trip's indifference toward his folks made little sense, but then again, meeting T'Mom was a pretty big deal to him I guess.

Why? He made no mention of wanting to get to know T'Pol's parents beforehand.

wow what were you watching?off the top of my head i can think of 3 times trip confronts tpol about the way shes acting.e2,azanti prime and the ep where they are planning to destroy the spheres.i believe he also asked phlox about it.if i thought about it im sure i could think of more.it was pretty obvious he knew something was wrong.

 

[commodore64]

Mach5, good to read! Thanks for making my day. I've had mixed feelings about STXI.

I dunno, I liked the look of Vulcan, and as for the strange customs, we already saw all that in TOS.

Not enough to identify it as Vulcan to me. TOS (including the movies) showed us some neat stuff that made the planet magical and mystical, but ... I thought Vulcan seemed pretty vanilla in Home. For me, I expected to see something not like Earth, which is why I was disappointed with its depiction in Home.

I think that's part of the reason I loved The Forge so much. They managed to really *expand* on Vulcan from TOS. They showed a fairly mysterious people (and what a surprise that Soval can mindmeld and katras), a part of the planet that has significance to the person TOS built up (Surak), weird sandstorms, a follow-up from TOS and TAS on sehlats and also characters who seemed Vulcan. No "Vulcan" was overly emotional.

Why bother taking characters to Vulcan unless to expand on the mythology.



The writers missed some drama. On her breakdown, would it also make sense to have a friend ask about her emotions? Did Trip just not notice? (Is he that stupid? I don't think so, but he's managed to miss some big cues due to writers.) Her mother noticed and asked, but to no natural progression. In fact, after this episode, her emotionalism is never mentioned again.

'Archer getting laid' plot was the lamest part of the episode, and it took too much screen time. Home should have definitely been a two parter, so that the other characters (Sato, Reed, Phlox, Maywe... meh, not him ) could be given something to do. I agree that Trip's indifference toward his folks made little sense, but then again, meeting T'Mom was a pretty big deal to him I guess.

Why? He made no mention of wanting to get to know T'Pol's parents beforehand.

wow what were you watching?off the top of my head i can think of 3 times trip confronts tpol about the way shes acting.e2,azanti prime and the ep where they are planning to destroy the spheres.i believe he also asked phlox about it.if i thought about it im sure i could think of more.it was pretty obvious he knew something was wrong.

A show called Enterprise. Trip never goes back to her after Azati Prime to find out what's happened. He doesn't go to her in Home and confront her either. And neither does Archer, who also noticed something was up and calls her on it in Damage ... because the writers wanted to sweep character development under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. Pity. Having T'Pol confess her addiction to the two guys would've made for better drama that the pouting we got outta Trip after Home and would've helped to make an even better friendship between Archer and T'Pol. Why create misery for characters unless you're going to use it to its fullest and resolve it?

 

[Mach5]

Why create misery for characters unless you're going to use it to its fullest and resolve it?

My thoughts exactly! I guess they were going to "fix" T'pol by making her study Kir'shara, and I thought back then that it was a good idea because I was getting tired of the messed up T'pol already. I really wanted to see her as a full fledged Vulcan once more before the show ended. But then that stupid little episode called "Bound" came out, and instead of the serous resolution of that never ending T'n'T drama (resolution that should have involved her coming clean about her trellium addiction), we got that "Were bonded, cool, sweet, no biggie" stuff.

 

[angie]

I think season 4 was ambitious but had misses as well as hits. I loved the Vucan arc and found the mirror eps fun though wish we saw both sides as in other versions.I think Coto was trying to reach out to fans with the homages but missed some of what made those references last over 30 years but he tried.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

It appeared that the writing staff had set up all sorts of things in Season 3 that would be followed up, presumably at length, in Season 4--Archer dealing with the psychological costs of the moral lines he was forced to cross in order to complete the Xindi mission, Trip and T'Pol's nascent relationship, Hoshi's torture by the Xindi-Reptilians, the consequences of T'Pol's trellium use. There could have been revisits of any number of dangling plot threads--the Illyrians, the North Star colonists, the unknown fate of the E2 Enterprise, etc.

But, in hindsight, I think Season 4 was hampered by the looming cancellation of the series, and the necessity of having to basically cram 4 years' worth of goodies into one truncated season. To make room for several episodes that Had To Be Made, a whole lot of ongoing plots with great potential were given short shrift, or just tossed. Rich storylines like T'Pol's adjustment to post-trellium emotions, or Archer coming to terms with what he did during the war, were reduced to almost nothing. And the Trip/T'Pol relationship was all over the place--put on hold, ignored, turned into a soap opera, fast-tracked, given a tragic but uplifting ray of hope, then canceled. My theory: You don't plan things like this. This is the kind of stuff that happens when your plans get derailed.

On the bright side, there was some great character development for Soval and Shran; I really enjoyed the Vulcan and Andorian arcs. There were unexpectedly interesting guest characters, like Dr. Antaak from the Klingon arc. We got to see Vaughn Armstrong as Forrest in "IaMD" even after Forrest was killed in the Vulcan arc--that guy was great no matter which universe he was in. The Archer/T'Pol friendship was well-served. And there was "Observer Effect," which was my favorite.

Sure, there are storylines I wish I could have seen. I wish there had been seven seasons guaranteed, and the breathing room for the writers to explore plots and storylines without constantly worrying about ratings or cancellation. Enterprise, of all the Trek shows, never had that luxury. Considering the pressure they were under, I think we got some real gems.

Just my .02

 

[commodore64]

My theory: You don't plan things like this. This is the kind of stuff that happens when your plans get derailed.

I liked this quote. You know, the problem with Enterprise under all regimes is this exactly. Coto had a whole season to determine what he wanted and flesh it out; he was only missing the last episode. So, he should've had a plan. I think the only episodes where the writers said, "Screw it!" were the Mirror Universe episodes that fell out of sync. (And they were worth it.) The fact Coto didn't plan and act says more about him as a head writer and my biggest beef with him ... as well as the episodes he penned, which sucked.

Through the grapevine, I've heard that he "significantly" rewrote Reeves-Stevens. I can't help but wonder if his "rewrites" really made the episodes worse. I have absolutely no respect for Coto as the head writer during season 4, maybe because I had a bunch of hopes pinned on him that he could help save what made Enterprise good.

Instead, he gave us TOS-lite.

 

[Mach5]

Instead, he gave us TOS-lite.

"TOS-lite?" I actually like the sound of that... In total, there were only two Season 4 episodes that truly sucked (Daedalus and Bound), and 2 out of 21 (yes, 21) is not bad at all. Coto may have screwed up a couple of times, sure, but I still love him for episodes like "Similitude"...

 

[commodore64]

The head writer under Similitude was Braga. He would work on scripts given to him (written by people on his staff) and had the overall vision of the season. And that's exactly to my point.

I thought Similitude was good, but not awesome. Coto wrote Bound so .... I thought Storm Front 1, 2, Home, Bound, Daedalus, Demons and elements of other shows stunk. The majority of the shows I didn't like from season 4 were written or heavily edited by Coto.

Plus, the man wanted to do an homage to Cloud Miners, a rather "meh" TOS episode imo.

 

[Mach5]

The head writer under Similitude was Braga.

Why is Coto the only credited writer then?

Plus, the man wanted to do an homage to Cloud Miners, a rather "meh" TOS episode imo.

Yeah, that was not exactly a good idea, I must say...