Could we get this into space?

[Rivas_Jakarta]

Somebody's seen Robotech.

http://www.therobotechpage.com/glossary/left1.jpg

No, seriously though. I lived on a Nimitz Class, the Truman (CVN-75), for five years. But what you're asking, it can't be done. Not headache-free, anyways.

Oh sure, we can button up the ship at Material Condition Zebra at MOPP Level 4 for a few hours. However that's only that's only temporary. Once the sampling teams give the OK, we get our fresh air back. But see, it's not something meant to be permanent.


But to make Nimitz spaceworthy you're better off just starting from scratch. Take the biggest example I can think of, the Hangar Bays. To transition the planes from the main deck to the flight deck makes the Flight Deck Elevators and their openings neccessary.

To fuss around with some kind of airlock function for a Nimitz Class hangar bay would seriously impede the op-tempo of cyclic flight ops necessary on a carrier. That's assuming there was an easy way to make the hangar bays into an airlock.

Zero-g on a carrier. How do you expect to paint? As a salt with 10 years of Navy service, I can tell you that we live for painting. Not by choice, either. The neccessity of regular zone inspections calls for it.

You need gravity to paint. Unless grav plating is invented real soon, the lack of painting would upset the shipboard status quo. Trust me. Painting is a cornerstone of Navy life while underway.

It's just all kinds of issues that would seriously preclude the Nimitz Class being made spaceworthy. Again, you will be better off building a space carrier from scratch.

So I give you a link to the only good example of a realistic space carrier design and you can use that as your start. It is in German but just stick to the "TECHNIK" portions.


http://www.space-2063.de/images/Blueprint01.jpg
Enjoy.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Ok, we could start from scratch but my initial thinking was whether or not we could actually lift something the size and weight of a Nimitz or UK CVF Carrier into orbit from Earths surface. If it is indeed possible then let's build this thing and get it up there, once it's up there the hard part is over and we had the luxury of building it down here.

Thanks for your last link BTW, nice blueprint.

 

[scotthm]

once it's up there the hard part is over

Well, other than figuring out what we're going to do with it.

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[All Seeing Eye]

once it's up there the hard part is over

Well, other than figuring out what we're going to do with it.

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Exploration / surveying.
Colonisation.
Ferrying supplies to/from the colony bases.
Protection against rogue asteroids.
Tourism.

 

[Rivas_Jakarta]

You're welcome for the link. Now the Sartoga is just fiction. The only thing in real life that came close to any sort of military space vessel was the plans for a "space battleship" as part of a Deep Space Force under Project Orion in the late 50's/early 60's.

A model of the battleship the size of a Cadillac was shown to JFK at Vandenberg AFB in '62. He was said to be ...appalled, to say the least. He said he had no use for it.

If you can, find a copy of the George Dyson book, PROJECT ORION. Trust me it's a very good read. Here's a link about the book:

http://www.space.com/spacelibrary/books/library_projectorion_020709.html

Here's some links on Project Orion itself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

http://www.space.com/sciencefiction/space_battleship_000121.html

 

[scotthm]

Exploration.

That's a lot of mass to be moving around at one time. Are you sure we need to send 100,000 tons of ship to each planet/moon we visit?

Colonisation.

Possibly, but I don't think the incentives will be there for a while.

Ferrying supplies to/from the colony bases.

Again, a lot of mass to move around the solar system. Something with a powerful engine and a relatively low mass would make a better barge.

Protection against rogue asteroids.

I'd like to think we'll see the one with our name on it before it's too late, and think that resources would be better spent identifying asteroids than building 100,000 ton spaceships.

Tourism.

There may be a small market for this, but I don't believe such giant ships will be feasible for that use.

I do think it may be possible to eventually have ships that large in space, but not until well after we've revolutionized propulsion systems.

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[Rivas_Jakarta]

Just found this. It is FICTIONAL. But intesting nonetheless.

http://rhysy.plexersoft.com/Deep Space Force Gallery/slides/Soviet Schematic.html

 

[All Seeing Eye]

scotthm

I don't see a problem sending a ship of that size around the Solar System, the majority of it's size would likely be the nuclear engine and cargo space which would get it around the solar system quick as a flash but then again does it need to get about quickly? such a large ship could cater for a crew in space for possibly years at a time with enough supplies and the ship could get about with little thrust required and coast around.
The ship would be useful for many things such as shipping several satellites at a time into the outer solar system for deployment around planets that could last for long periods of time, it could be a launch platform for a satellite being sent out of the solar system. It Could be used to deploy materials for the construction of mining bases or fuel supply bases on some moons.
As for asteroid threats, it wouldn't just be used to detect them, it could be fitted either at first construction or when needed with a mass driver or a compliment of nuclear guided missiles and could head towards an asteroid and knock it off course.
When the vessel is moving between Earth and Mars it could accommodate tourists as an added money bonus.

The opportunities for such a vessel is enormous.

Just found this. It is FICTIONAL. But intesting nonetheless.

http://rhysy.plexersoft.com/Deep%20Space%20Force%20Gallery/slides/Soviet%20Schematic.html

Wow that's awesome! thanks for sharing!

 

[scotthm]

The opportunities for such a vessel is enormous.

I can't say that I agree. With space travel in particular, science fiction is far removed from reality.

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[sojourner]

Have to agree with Scotthm here. Purpose built ships would make much more sense than one huge ship trying to do everything. For the forseeable future form will follow function. Besides, why build a warship if there is noone to fight?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Have to agree with Scotthm here. Purpose built ships would make much more sense than one huge ship trying to do everything. For the forseeable future form will follow function.

Wow! what a way to think, maybe when the aliens do decide to come knocking you'd be glad you put the thing up there early (just incase) instead of having nothing at all to defend with!

Seriously though, it's not a warship, I was simply wanting an upgraded Carrier or a vessel similar so it could carry a compliment of smaller vessels for space to ground travel and have large cargo potential. It would also house a large nuclear engine to get it all around.
Of course, should we face a possible asteroid or alien attack the vessel could be fitted with weaponry.

 

[broberfett]

Would it even be remotely possible to get something weighing 100,000+ tonnes into space using current methods?

Ok i'll be more specific, could we take this and modify it slightly for it to be space worthy (in other words stick some engines on it and make it airtight) and then blast it into space? Obviously the flight deck would be covered over and made into some kind of hangar.

Well?

How about just 80,000+ tonnes?

EDIT: Damn, wrong forum, this should be in Science and Technology.

There was that system from the 60s when they were going to use nuclear explosions to launch a vehicle. I think it was called Orion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

 

[Rivas_Jakarta]

I just posted that, bud.

 

[Hofner]

I'm no rocket scientist but I'll take a wild stab at this.

The Saturn V could lift 130 tons into LEO. Divide the payload of 100,000 tons by that and I get 769. Can we build a rocket that's the equivalent of 769 Saturn Vs? Or maybe we could strap 769 Saturn V boosters onto the aircraft carrier and get that baby on up there.

Now someone can come along and shoot my wild assumption down.

Robert

 

[Timo]

The only thing in real life that came close to any sort of military space vessel was the plans for a "space battleship" as part of a Deep Space Force under Project Orion in the late 50's/early 60's.

However, the Soviets did install 23 mm cannon on their military Salyuts, and test-fired the system once. There was apparently also some serious armament aboard the Polyus station that they tried to launch with the first Energiya booster: a recoilless gun with a combined optical/radar/laser targeting system, a mine dispenser, a laser blinder, gas-cloud shields... I wonder what would have been done with the station, had the launch been a success. Gorbachev reputedly explicitly forbade any testing of militarily significant hardware or procedures, to avoid provocation, but Polyus could have outlived his reign, and might have become the first crewed space combat platform.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS KG5]

The Saturn V could lift 130 tons into LEO. Divide the payload of 100,000 tons by that and I get 769. Can we build a rocket that's the equivalent of 769 Saturn Vs? Or maybe we could strap 769 Saturn V boosters onto the aircraft carrier and get that baby on up there.

The advantage of this would be that when the rocket was complete - if you climbed to the top you would almost be in space anyway!

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I'm no rocket scientist but I'll take a wild stab at this.

The Saturn V could lift 130 tons into LEO. Divide the payload of 100,000 tons by that and I get 769. Can we build a rocket that's the equivalent of 769 Saturn Vs? Or maybe we could strap 769 Saturn V boosters onto the aircraft carrier and get that baby on up there.

Now someone can come along and shoot my wild assumption down.

Robert

Come on dude! I'm sure with today's tech we could develop a rocket far smaller than 769 Saturns Vs capable of getting it up there. It just needs the incentive to build one.

 

[scotthm]

I'm sure with today's tech we could develop a rocket far smaller than 769 Saturns Vs capable of getting it up there. It just needs the incentive to build one.

You may be right; with today's technology it may only take something the size of 600 Saturn Vs.

Since today's technology is still chemical rockets, it's still not a realistic proposal.

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[Alpha_Geek]

Come on dude! I'm sure with today's tech we could develop a rocket far smaller than 769 Saturns Vs capable of getting it up there. It just needs the incentive to build one.

Ummm.. no. Despite your thoughts on the matter, rocket technology really hasn't advanced much since Von Brauns swan song.

The Saturn V remains the most powerful vehicle ever produced.

AG

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Ok, something around 20,000 tonnes should suffice then.