24th Century department division color switch...

[Gepard]

Has there ever been any explanation about why the tactical/security and command colors switched between TOS and TNG/DS9/VOY? It's always seemed odd, but I've never heard an explanation about what Roddenberry or Theiss were thinking. (Were they trying to aovid the "Redshirt Curse?" )

 

[USS Intrepid]

The only thing I can ever recall hearing is that it had something to do with Patrick Stewart looking better in red, but I don't know if that's apochryphal, or just part of the story.

 

[Data Holmes]

The only thing I can ever recall hearing is that it had something to do with Patrick Stewart looking better in red, but I don't know if that's apochryphal, or just part of the story.

I believe the issue was data's color. They felt that the red didn't work with the gold skin.

 

[Dale]

It was a protest by the Amalgamated Union of Starfleet Security Guards. They finally noticed the correlation between red shirts and death and insisted that the risk be spread more fairly over time. In the 25th century the status quo changes back and command again wears gold.

Sciences and Medical, meanwhile, wisely kept out of the entire red-gold kerfuffle. In fact rumors abound that they're lobbying to have their color changed to either "camoflage" or "cloaked."

 

[ParticleMan]

The only thing I can ever recall hearing is that it had something to do with Patrick Stewart looking better in red, but I don't know if that's apochryphal, or just part of the story.

I believe the issue was data's color. They felt that the red didn't work with the gold skin.

That's funny, because I always thought that after seeing Data in the red uniform in Chain of Command, that it better suited his color than did the gold.

 

[Frodo Lives]

Actually the whole Red-Gold-Command-Operations switch had very little to do with Data - though he has got his own uniform flub, since, as essentially the Ent-D's science officer he should have been in Science blue - but it didn't contrast well with his gold skin, so I believe the production team came up with the title operations manager and put him into gold.

The red-gold switch happened first I believe, because, as noted earlier, Patrick Stewart (and I believe Jonathan Frakes) did not look too good in gold. And that's the backstage reason.

As for onscreen, I'm inclined to believe Dale's take.

Oh, and didn't we just have this exact same thread like a week ago? No offense meant to the OP.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Gold is not a flattering color for most complexions. Theiss felt that costuming the leads - Stewart and Frakes - was most important, so they got the "cranberry" outfits and supporting characters in Engineering and Operations got the "umber gold." In one personal appearence, Theiss suggested that continuity with the TOS-based movie uniforms was a minor consideration as well.

 

[Trekker4747]

I prefer the switch. Red is a much more "commanding" color if you ask me.

 

[Gepard]

Oh, and didn't we just have this exact same thread like a week ago? No offense meant to the OP.

Huh. Hadn't noticed if we did. And I like to think I'm pretty good about not duplicating threads.

And I agree that red says "command" more so than gold--maybe, in-universe, that's why the switch.

 

[TGTheodore]

Not to mention dark red is much more "slimming" -- what the fashionable officer on the Command track is wearing.

--Ted

 

[Mike Farley]

Wait, I thought the operations uniforms were green. They just looked gold on TV!

 

[sbk1234]

I may be wrong, someone will tell me if I am, but I think I remember reading the novelization of Encounter at Farpoint by David Gerrold. In that book I think he mentioned the change in color was to call attention away from the security redshirt thing.
I know that even if I'm remembering correctly, as a book, it's still not canon.

 

[nx1701g]

What's more interesting is in the TimeCop future of Voyager Blue has become the command color, orange is used for security, and green is the science color.

 

[diankra]

I may be wrong, someone will tell me if I am, but I think I remember reading the novelization of Encounter at Farpoint by David Gerrold. In that book I think he mentioned the change in color was to call attention away from the security redshirt thing.
I know that even if I'm remembering correctly, as a book, it's still not canon.

I don't think it was in Gerrold's Farpoint novelisation, but the 'Security went on strike to demand a change from red' joke was included in a 'non-fiction' book within a year of TNG's debut - think it might have been Worlds of the Federation, but or maybe the TNG Officer's Manual? (long time ago...).

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

In one personal appearence, Theiss suggested that continuity with the TOS-based movie uniforms was a minor consideration as well.

Something similar was also stated in one of the earliest issues of Starlog's Star Trek: The Next Generation magazine.

 

[Mysterion]

Actually the whole Red-Gold-Command-Operations switch had very little to do with Data - though he has got his own uniform flub, since, as essentially the Ent-D's science officer he should have been in Science blue - but it didn't contrast well with his gold skin, so I believe the production team came up with the title operations manager and put him into gold.

Data was always the Ops officer and I've seen no production info referring to him being the Science officer (except in a de-facto sense).

 

[USS Excelsior]

Engineering has had yellow since the TWOK uniforms came out, and command was white so a switch actually took place after TOS ended.

 

[Red Ranger]

Engineering has had yellow since the TWOK uniforms came out, and command was white so a switch actually took place after TOS ended.

Excelsior:

I was going to mention that there've been two big switches in division colors since TOS. First, you had the TOS movies switch, which wasn't as apparent in TMP, but the shoulder tabs and circle around the Starfleet delta represented division colors, and they were the same colors as in TWOK to TUC.

Those colors, were, roughly: white (command); blue-gray (sciences); gold (operations/engineering); green (medical); and red (trainee/cadet). There were apparently other colors, too, but those are the ones most prominently displayed onscreen.

Then you had the reversion to the three-color scheme from TNG on, with command being red and operations/security being gold.

Despite the fact I enjoy TOS the most, I prefer the TNG on scheme. As red is my favorite color, I do think Picard and Riker, and other captains and commanders, look more authoritative in that color.

Red Ranger

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Engineering has had yellow since the TWOK uniforms came out, and command was white so a switch actually took place after TOS ended.

Excelsior:

I was going to mention that there've been two big switches in division colors since TOS. First, you had the TOS movies switch, which wasn't as apparent in TMP, but the shoulder tabs and circle around the Starfleet delta represented division colors, and they were the same colors as in TWOK to TUC.

Those colors, were, roughly: white (command); blue-gray (sciences); gold (operations/engineering); green (medical); and red (trainee/cadet). There were apparently other colors, too, but those are the ones most prominently displayed onscreen.

While certainly based on what he had come up for TMP, Robert Fletcher did make minor changes in the breakdown of division colors for TWOK.

The TMP scheme had red for engineering and oranage for sciences:
http://www.st-spike.org/pages/uniforms/2273-2277/insignia_divisions.htm

The TWOK scheme:
http://www.st-spike.org/pages/uniforms/2278-2350/divisions.htm

 

[Red Ranger]

Engineering has had yellow since the TWOK uniforms came out, and command was white so a switch actually took place after TOS ended.

Excelsior:

I was going to mention that there've been two big switches in division colors since TOS. First, you had the TOS movies switch, which wasn't as apparent in TMP, but the shoulder tabs and circle around the Starfleet delta represented division colors, and they were the same colors as in TWOK to TUC.

Those colors, were, roughly: white (command); blue-gray (sciences); gold (operations/engineering); green (medical); and red (trainee/cadet). There were apparently other colors, too, but those are the ones most prominently displayed onscreen.

While certainly based on what he had come up for TMP, Robert Fletcher did make minor changes in the breakdown of division colors for TWOK.

The TMP scheme had red for engineering and oranage for sciences:
http://www.st-spike.org/pages/uniforms/2273-2277/insignia_divisions.htm

The TWOK scheme:
http://www.st-spike.org/pages/uniforms/2278-2350/divisions.htm

Middyseafort: Wow, the TWOK on color schemes are way too complicated! But I'm impressed they came up with so many color variations, many which we never saw onscreen. -- RR