deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

[GilmourD]

On the topic of the Bussard collector color... On the original iteration of the big E under Pike's command, when the collectors still had those spires on them, weren't they just painted red? I believe it was after "Where No Man Has Gone Before" that they replaced the collector caps on the model with the translucent caps with lights behind them.

Not sure dude, but good point. I'll have to go back and check The Cage eh.

deg

Here's a page all about the original three-foot model used for the show with some original promo photos of it. Note the ones with just Spock in them.

http://members.aol.com/wmccullars/threefoot.html

Oh, and here's another pic of the original shooting model.

http://www.uah.edu/~jim/spikes1.jpg

That's from http://members.aol.com/IDICPage/BehindPage2.html

 

[deg3D]

Trix are for kids eh!

I'm reminded of a slightly "saucy" joke, (no way relating to Trek).

A young goat and a bunny approach a lady of "ill repute". The goat presents an offer and the hooker agrees. The bunny also propositions her, but the prostitute politely refuses, and gently patting him on the head, she replies, "Silly rabbit, 'tricks' are for 'kids'."

As for "The cage" nacelle domes with the spires, for some time I've heard several fans agree it was some hue of metallic copper rather than just plain red. Of course, different snaps of the 3 foot model, depending upon their processing can suggest a variety of tones.

Sincerely,

Bill

I wanna know what the goat said to her.

deg

 

[deg3D]

On the topic of the Bussard collector color... On the original iteration of the big E under Pike's command, when the collectors still had those spires on them, weren't they just painted red? I believe it was after "Where No Man Has Gone Before" that they replaced the collector caps on the model with the translucent caps with lights behind them.

Not sure dude, but good point. I'll have to go back and check The Cage eh.

deg

Here's a page all about the original three-foot model used for the show with some original promo photos of it. Note the ones with just Spock in them.

http://members.aol.com/wmccullars/threefoot.html

Oh yes GilmourD, I've spent hours and hours and hours and hours on the pages of The IDIC Page researching E to a fault. Thanks for the link anywho eh.

I will still get around to checking the actual eps. footage though to see (remind myself) how it actually showed up on film...

deg

 

[GilmourD]

Not sure dude, but good point. I'll have to go back and check The Cage eh.

deg

Here's a page all about the original three-foot model used for the show with some original promo photos of it. Note the ones with just Spock in them.

http://members.aol.com/wmccullars/threefoot.html

Oh yes GilmourD, I've spent hours and hours and hours and hours on the pages of The IDIC Page researching E to a fault. Thanks for the link anywho eh.

I will still get around to checking the actual eps. footage though to see (remind myself) how it actually showed up on film...

deg

Gotcha. Sadly enough, I lost my VHS copy of The Cage a while ago, not that I have a VCR currently, so I can't watch it. Let us know what you come up with.

However, the same model seems to have been used in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", which I DO have on DVD in non-remastered form. I'll have to scope that out later.

 

[deg3D]

Gotcha. Sadly enough, I lost my VHS copy of The Cage a while ago, not that I have a VCR currently, so I can't watch it. Let us know what you come up with.

However, the same model seems to have been used in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", which I DO have on DVD in non-remastered form. I'll have to scope that out later.

OK, in The Menagerie (I had to go to eps. 16 as the same footage is in B/W in The Cage), the domes are definitely a deep red color/hue, and appear to be pretty-much opaque, yet shiny/glossy in finish.

I find it too funny, watching Spock's court-marital hearing with them all gathered and watching the view-screen displaying that opening shot of Pike's E that comes down through the top dome into the bridge itself!

I mean, did StarFleet have some type of uber-tracking-camera out in space tracking and chronicling their starships while out on mission, that could even go from the outside in, and watch the crew as well?

deg

 

[Gagarin]

Pardon my ignorance - but what was the 3 foot model actually used for? Was it ever used for opticals?

 

[deg3D]

Pardon my ignorance - but what was the 3 foot model actually used for? Was it ever used for opticals?

If I recall correctly (thus I could be incorrect), the 3-footer was only built as a sort of mock-up, and later used for promotional shots and such.

The 11 ft. filming model was altered many times (and put on film, in The Cage (the first pilot) then WNMHGB (the second pilot), and then finally with the production of the actual series), with two major sets of alterations (respective to the second pilot, and the series) leading up to the final production version.

That is as I recall it anywho, from reading all I have read in all of the "making of..." Star Trek books that I own, and I have read all of them cover-to-cover. However, please, feel free anyone to correct me if I am wrong.

Also of note, ST is an odd puppy. Never before had a pilot been rejected, yet given a second shot at making a new pilot. Unprecedented network grant.

deg

 

[Praetor]

I think they did use it for a number of visuals in 'The Cage.' when the 11-footer wasn't done yet. I think they also used it for a number of early stock shots too. I may remember wrong, and Memory Alpha is vague on it, but I believe it was in an article in the old Star Trek Communicator written by Richard Datin who built the big one.

Anywho, I really love the way this is going, deg! I think your work is terrific. And I'm definitely in the 'peach' camp. I'm really interested to see this thing fully realized.

 

[deg3D]

I think they did use it for a number of visuals in 'The Cage.' when the 11-footer wasn't done yet. I think they also used it for a number of early stock shots too. I may remember wrong, and Memory Alpha is vague on it, but I believe it was in an article in the old Star Trek Communicator written by Richard Datin who built the big one.

Anywho, I really love the way this is going, deg! I think your work is terrific. And I'm definitely in the 'peach' camp. I'm really interested to see this thing fully realized.

Thanks dude, for the info and the compliments.

Not sure of it's origins and thus accuracy but, this is the E info I found on Wikipedia:

Origin and design

Art Director Matt Jefferies designed the original Enterprise. The first miniature built for the pilot episode "The Cage" was unlit and approximately 3 feet (91.4 cm) long. It was modified during the course of the series to match the changes eventually made to the larger miniature, and appears on-set in "Requiem for Methuselah". The second miniature built for the first pilot measures 11 feet 2 inches (3.4 m) long and was built by Richard Datin. Initially, the model was static and had no electronics. For the second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before", various details were altered, and the window ports and running lights were internally illuminated, except on the port side of the model, which was left unfinished. When the series was picked up and went into production, the model was altered yet again. These alterations included the addition of translucent domes and blinking lights at the forward ends of the engine nacelles, smaller round domes at the stern end of the engine nacelles, a shorter bridge dome, and a smaller deflector/sensor dish. Save for re-used footage from the two pilot episodes, this was the appearance of the ship throughout the series.

BTW, love your sig quote.

deg

 

[c5maier]

Thanks guys.

Ah yes, I do tend to like it more and more the more I gaze at it. I may have to officially shift over eh, and just keep the blue as an alt version. It does hold to tradition more tightly, while updating the cheesy Christmas-tree efx.

I am very happy to read that - always liked peaches . But seriously: That is a very nice re-interpretation of the original - much better than your own at the start of the thread, although I liked that one already.

As to your mention of NV/PII, as I love those Neo-Trek productions, I of course would be open to the idea, but only as long as she was guaranteed to never be made to do barrel-roles and/or made to maneuver like a fighter-jet in any way, shape, or form. WTF was up with that? I'm mean, those guys obviously love Trek. Why would they do that to E? Still amazes me to this day.
I forgive them though, and I have not seen them do it again since.

I am very much with you on that. Indeed I did not mean you hand over your mesh to the public domain but rather that you let it be known that it is available for productions under proper circumstances. I like what I have seen from others in that respect, but your ship really would look great in a fan-film project, IMHO.

P.S. When I built my first AMT model of the E (it must have been in the late 70s), It came with bright red translucent caps. I put a white smear in a radial pattern on it to make it less garish and more like it was seen on-screen.

 

[deg3D]

Thanks guys.

Ah yes, I do tend to like it more and more the more I gaze at it. I may have to officially shift over eh, and just keep the blue as an alt version. It does hold to tradition more tightly, while updating the cheesy Christmas-tree efx.

I am very happy to read that - always liked peaches . But seriously: That is a very nice re-interpretation of the original - much better than your own at the start of the thread, although I liked that one already.

As to your mention of NV/PII, as I love those Neo-Trek productions, I of course would be open to the idea, but only as long as she was guaranteed to never be made to do barrel-roles and/or made to maneuver like a fighter-jet in any way, shape, or form. WTF was up with that? I'm mean, those guys obviously love Trek. Why would they do that to E? Still amazes me to this day.
I forgive them though, and I have not seen them do it again since.

I am very much with you on that. Indeed I did not mean you hand over your mesh to the public domain but rather that you let it be known that it is available for productions under proper circumstances. I like what I have seen from others in that respect, but your ship really would look great in a fan-film project, IMHO.

P.S. When I built my first AMT model of the E (it must have been in the late 70s), It came with bright red translucent caps. I put a white smear in a radial pattern on it to make it less garish and more like it was seen on-screen.

Thanks again my friend

As I built several AMT Es (and still have a full set of sealed-boxed original AMT Trek models stacked on the shelf just above me), I seem to have a shadow memory (as I call them) of one on my E kits indeed having those red domes. I think I used them as nurnies on one of the many other original design models that I had built back then. The kit above me has the light-ish orange-ish domes on the cover art.

deg

 

[Shaw]

All of these questions were answered in a thread on the 33 inch model (which has since disappeared from this site). The research on the model itself resulted in these plans.

The 33 inch model was finished first (constructed in November of 1964) and was used for all the effects shots in The Cage except the bridge zoom in (which was the only time the 11 foot model, constructed in December of 1964, was used).

Where else was it used? It is the model of the Enterprise swooshing past the screen in the opening credits of every episode of TOS, in WNMHGB it was the model flying out of the barrier, and in Tomorrow Is Yesterday it appeared above the F-104. The WNMHGB and swooshing footage was reused in a couple other places, but the model wouldn't make another new appearance on screen until the table shot in "Requiem for Methuselah". This is a nice collection of images of the 33 inch model.

The 33 inch model was no longer used for distant shots in TOS starting in the second season as an 18 inch AMT model of the Enterprise was built (at the same time as the Constellation) for that purpose.

And for the record, both the 33 inch and 11 foot models were originally built by Datin.



(Note: Wikipedia was not used for any material posted above.)

 

[deg3D]

All of these questions were answered in a thread on the 33 inch model (which has since disappeared from this site). The research on the model itself resulted in these plans.

The 33 inch model was finished first (constructed in November of 1964) and was used for all the effects shots in The Cage except the bridge zoom in (which was the only time the 11 foot model, constructed in December of 1964, was used).

Where else was it used? It is the model of the Enterprise swooshing past the screen in the opening credits of every episode of TOS, in WNMHGB it was the model flying out of the barrier, and in Tomorrow Is Yesterday it appeared above the F-104. The WNMHGB and swooshing footage was reused in a couple other places, but the model wouldn't make another new appearance on screen until the table shot in "Requiem for Methuselah". This is a nice collection of images of the 33 inch model.

The 33 inch model was no longer used for distant shots in TOS starting in the second season as an 18 inch AMT model of the Enterprise was built (at the same time as the Constellation) for that purpose.

And for the record, both the 33 inch and 11 foot models were originally built by Datin.



(Note: Wikipedia was not used for any material posted above.)

Friggin' AWESOME, thanks dude!

BTW, what is the source of all this info eh?

deg

 

[deg3D]

Here's some more E fun stuff too.

deg

 

[Praetor]

I might have known Shaw would know about the 33". Glad I wasn't just pulling that out of the air.

deg, I love those photos you linked to. It's so amazing just seeing the old girl photographed like that. When your model is complete, you should recreate some of the famous stock shots with her.

So, I think I've lost track, what do you personally classify the nacelle caps as? Space energy sinks or bussard collectors or just fancy intakes? Either way I think they mechanics you've got going are great.

 

[deg3D]

I might have known Shaw would know about the 33". Glad I wasn't just pulling that out of the air.

deg, I love those photos you linked to. It's so amazing just seeing the old girl photographed like that. When your model is complete, you should recreate some of the famous stock shots with her.

So, I think I've lost track, what do you personally classify the nacelle caps as? Space energy sinks or bussard collectors or just fancy intakes? Either way I think they mechanics you've got going are great.

Oh dude, that's a friggin' AWESOME idea! I can shoot myself on green-screen to cut myself in and build the rest of the stuff in 3D! Oh that's awesome. And yeah, I know, I always loved those shots too eh, glad you do too.

Now here's my thinking on the "bussards": I know the domes themselves are called bussards after Robert W. Bussard and his Bussard Ramjet, and they are also often referred to as bussard "collectors" but, I don't see the domes themselves as such.

The "collectors" or ramjets (for me) are the three rectangular scopes directly underneath the domes themselves. On my TOS.5 E I also added scopes around the whole circumference of the nacelles, at the base of the domes themselves.

The domes (to me) are plasma churning chambers. The vanes rotate and thus churn and/or swirl the warp plasma around, causing it to cycle-flow back into and over the field-coils that are inside and along the length of the nacelles. The rear globes, now redesigned/detailed on TOS.5 E, are now made to be a raw brushed metal, which I actually think of as warp plasma waste/heat "radiators," something roughly idea-wise along the lines of a Tesla Coil, but perhaps in reverse.

That's my reasoning as far as TOS.5 E goes anywho, as calling the domes ramjets or "collectors" makes no sense to me, as there is no industrial design sense present (conventional anywho) with which to "collect" with. Thus instead, I like to think of the domes as actually being plasma churning chambers.

Thanks again dude, glad you enjoy my work. Peachy E is about almost all ready.

deg

 

[Professor Moriarty]

No one wants unchurned plasma... too lumpy.

 

[deg3D]

No one wants unchurned plasma... too lumpy.

See, the Prof knows the what-to-knows of plasma-knows eh...

Now, take 'im in the back and plug 'im into the warp-drive, will ya?

deg

 

[GilmourD]

Now here's my thinking on the "bussards": I know the domes themselves are called bussards after Robert W. Bussard and his Bussard Ramjet, and they are also often referred to as bussard "collectors" but, I don't see the domes themselves as such.

The "collectors" or ramjets (for me) are the three rectangular scopes directly underneath the domes themselves. On my TOS.5 E I also added scopes around the whole circumference of the nacelles, at the base of the domes themselves.

The domes (to me) are plasma churning chambers. The vanes rotate and thus churn and/or swirl the warp plasma around, causing it to cycle-flow back into and over the field-coils that are inside and along the length of the nacelles. The rear globes, now redesigned/detailed on TOS.5 E, are now made to be a raw brushed metal, which I actually think of as warp plasma waste/heat "radiators," something roughly idea-wise along the lines of a Tesla Coil, but perhaps in reverse.

That's my reasoning as far as TOS.5 E goes anywho, as calling the domes ramjets or "collectors" makes no sense to me, as there is no industrial design sense present (conventional anywho) with which to "collect" with. Thus instead, I like to think of the domes as actually being plasma churning chambers.

Thanks again dude, glad you enjoy my work. Peachy E is about almost all ready.

deg

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the TNG Technical Manual explain Bussard Collectors as a device that creates a field which attracts deuterium and then collects it?

On that basis (if I'm even correct in remembering... I don't have the book here with me...), wouldn't it make sense that the dome is some sort of field generator and that the actual collectors are vents right behind the domes?

 

[deg3D]

AH, that's just more TNG techno-babble to me, LOL.

Na, I love TNG, just not as much as TOS. I do have that book though, I just never read it all, like I read all my TOS stuff. And that's not an all that bad of a concept, I guess. I just like mine better eh.

The only reason I think the way I do is because I base my idea of bussards on the real Bussard Ramjet ram-scoop configuration.

To be honest, TNG science extrapolation and techno-babble did tend to wear a wee-bit thin for me, both science-wise, and let's fill out the hour out explaining 24th century crap, ut, it's them darn EPS conduits again surprise surprise over and over and over again, by writers that I felt, were not always qualified to be writing real science-fiction, which I consider more along the lines of real thought-out work ala Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Niven (who used the concept a lot), Baxter, etc.

deg