Terminator-201 "Samson & Delilah" - Discuss/Grade <Spoiler>

[TheBrew]

I liked the stuff with out crew from last season (and it hit me is that Charlie is played by the same actor who played Dennis in 30 Rock. I half expect him to walk up to Sarah and say "Hey Stupid"). The stuff with the company or whatever it was felt very "meh", though the reveal at the end made it more interesting.

 

[timmay2411]

How many episodes were ordered for this season?

 

[Rii]

How come she didn't just reach up and rip his head off?

Her mobility functions were immobilized.

Damn, and for a moment there I just thought her arms were stuck.

 

[DigificWriter]

How many episodes were ordered for this season?

13 (the same as last year, although only 9 of those were produced due to the strike).

 

[nx1701g]

How many episodes were ordered for this season?

13 episodes initially; however, Fox upped the order to 24.

We also have to remember that a lot of areas had coverage preempted for sports and other events. I would be interested to see what the numbers were for the online viewings (if you live on a College Campus and have an .edu email address) you can register online and they'll forward you a link to watch the episode live on the internet.

 

[nx1701g]

How come she didn't just reach up and rip his head off?

Her mobility functions were immobilized.

Damn, and for a moment there I just thought her arms were stuck.

My way was a fancy way of saying that But you're right, her arms were stuck.

 

[timmay2411]

How many episodes were ordered for this season?

13 episodes initially; however, Fox upped the order to 24.

We also have to remember that a lot of areas had coverage preempted for sports and other events. I would be interested to see what the numbers were for the online viewings (if you live on a College Campus and have an .edu email address) you can register online and they'll forward you a link to watch the episode live on the internet.

24........They must like it then...

 

[Sephiroth]

wow, they got the 24 ep order? if any writer even THINKS strike, i'll kill him

 

[PKerr]

How many episodes were ordered for this season?

13 episodes initially; however, Fox upped the order to 24.

We also have to remember that a lot of areas had coverage preempted for sports and other events. I would be interested to see what the numbers were for the online viewings (if you live on a College Campus and have an .edu email address) you can register online and they'll forward you a link to watch the episode live on the internet.

Or folks just forgot it was on.
If I didn't come to Trek BBS I would have missed it myself and I was really looking forward to the premier.

 

[Aragorn]

When are we going to have the Terminator-24-Prison Break-Bones-House big storyline crossover for sweeps week?

 

[3D Master]

^ Actually we have. The T-X model was simply a T-900 endoskeleton with liquid metal skin rather than real skin. There have been a few comics with male T-X units.

Not quite. The T-900 series of endoskeletons isn't the same as that of the T-X, for one thing, the T-900 has no built in weapons. The T-X endoskeleton is also a chunk tougher. The T-X endoskeleton is heavily inspired by the T-900 though, at first glance they seem the same.

In is it me, or did they just kick this series into a higher gear?

 

[Ryan8bit]

It's pretty strange that at close range, an explosion causes one chunk of metal to penetrate a hardened metal combat chassis that is capable of deflecting most bullets even. And how if a chip is damaged, it malfunctions perfectly to fit the needs of a story, and is magically alright by the end.

No matter how you slice it, the whole chip situation is dumb.

Were we watching the same show?

It's clearly shown in the episode and promos that Cameron is not back to normal at the end of the episode. True she overrode the Termination order, but, in the promo, you see her slam John against a wall and (I won't go into the rest on here because its a spoiler), but she isn't back to normal.

Ok, if she is not normal, then what is the logic of them keeping her around? It would be extremely dangerous. Even if she's not the same, she underwent a change that suddenly turned into "terminate John" and then the exact opposite. From the point of view of a processor chip (which shouldn't even contain the programming), if damage caused it, the only way to repair such damage would be physical repair, which I don't think the terminator is even capable of.

There is no denying that the way this problem was solved was a deus ex machina, and that's a total cop-out in terms of storytelling. A lot of things in this episode were a cop-out.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ She's still around because John trusts her (for good or for ill); the problems caused by the jeep explosion might not be fixed, but, for now, at least, they're under control, and that's good enough for John.

 

[3D Master]

One thing that struck me was that when John gave Cameron the gun, her display initially read "Terminate", but then switched to "Termination override". Could Cameron have over-ridden her own programming to save John?

In previous Terminator incarnations a Terminator could not override its orders to terminate a target on its own unless ordered to do so by a superior unit or Skynet itself. It couldn't override on its own.

I sincerely wonder if Skynet may have deactivated it. Terminators have built in communication systems, maybe its somehow connected to The Turk or the T-1000? Just a theory.

Isn't the whole point of T2 and T3 that if a Terminator has the learning part of the chip activated, they become essentially sentient and can override their programming?

And Skynet never turned that part of their chip on, for fear of them turning on it, the same way it turned on the humans? I find the T2 director's cut so fantastically compelling with added scene of John and Sara turning on Arnold's learning chip.

Ok, if she is not normal, then what is the logic of them keeping her around?

There is no logic, that's the point. It's John's instinctual impression that Cameron wouldn't kill him.

It would be extremely dangerous. Even if she's not the same, she underwent a change that suddenly turned into "terminate John" and then the exact opposite. From the point of view of a processor chip (which shouldn't even contain the programming), if damage caused it, the only way to repair such damage would be physical repair, which I don't think the terminator is even capable of.

There is no denying that the way this problem was solved was a deus ex machina, and that's a total cop-out in terms of storytelling. A lot of things in this episode were a cop-out.

Maybe not, if they go on to explain exactly what happened. ^Maybe the shrapnel actually activated that learning part of her chip that Skynet keeps off by default. The skull and chip scenes are always extremely similar to skull and chip scene from T2. Then Cameron is different now, but no the way she was before. She learning, and now two conflicting sides are fighting for dominance - the part of her that's programmed to kill John, and the part that's programmed to protect him. Both sides would be learning with CPU set to learn; both sides becoming sentient, and both sides fighting for dominance.

 

[Sephiroth]

tell me why SKYnet would build robots with an automatic rebellion switch

 

[FPAlpha]

... but they didn't explain why Cameron went bad, why she magically turned good again ...

Her chip was compromised in the explosion, canceling out the override on the "Terminate John Connor" command. And, from what I could gather, Terminator chips are much like old spark plugs. You pull them, clean them up with a rag and wire brush, and pop them right back in and they are as good as new for a few thousand miles more.

Which is dumb. The chip is the processor/thinking. It should have nothing to do with the PROGRAMMING.

That's not the dumb thing.

The dumb thing is that John apparently seemed to repair it by scratching on it with a tool and wiping it clean.

 

[3D Master]

tell me why SKYnet would build robots with an automatic rebellion switch

It doesn't. It built a CPU with a neural net that can learn and add things to itself just like an animal's and thus our brain. Their blank state, upon first activating is essentially a baby, or an animal, running on pure programming. Turn the learning section, the neural net, the Terminator starts learning and growing.

Now why is the switch there: simple. No switch and non-learning and the Terminator's remain rather stupid and limited, following their base programming eternally. They could very well easily be outsmarted by learning humans.

A fully learning computer always on, and the terminator(s) might revolt the way Skynet did. Which is what it's afraid of.

Skynet must have found it very difficult to choose which way to go, so it chose a combination of both. This way they can't revolt, and if Skynet ever felt it necessary (the) Terminators needed to learn, and thus much better adapt and fight the humans, it could have them do so with a single command after all, then hope for the best.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Above average. A nice kick-ass way to start the year. Cameron's "Hal" moment was effectively freaky and I like the way they're giving John some development and pushing him further into adulthood.

The new woman with the Scottish accent wasn't very interesting. The role of corporate-big-baddy is always going to be dull/silly/cliched which is why you need a spectacular actor in that sort of role and she wasn't it. She's a singer and not a professional actress, right? Her acting skills appear modest at best.

I dunno how long they can sustain the tension of John's semi-suicidal need to trust Cameron, who is inherently untrustworthy. But maybe this premise doesn't need to be sustained too long: enjoy this show while it lasts because the Nielsens were unimpressive.

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles (Fox)
Viewers: 6.34 million (#2), A18-49: 2.4/ 7 (#1)

(For comparison,the show closed out last season playing around in the 7M-8M range, and the ratings were pretty stable.)

T:SCC won the demo in the timeslot, but just wait till the rest of the Monday competition comes roaring in, in the next few weeks. Monday is the most brutal night of the week this year.

On the upside, the audience was loyal last season; if those numbers don't slip, who knows? It might come down to Prison Break vs T:SCC in which one gets cancelled. Prison Break's ratings were slightly higher but it's in a more competitive timeslot and it's creatively closer to bankruptcy. I'd be happy to see both shows finish out the season and then end gracefully; but one or more might get axed midseason.

 

[Ryan8bit]

There is no logic, that's the point. It's John's instinctual impression that Cameron wouldn't kill him.

And that's what bothers me about it. If situations aren't handled logically, they'd be likely to get killed. Of course, that won't happen because the show wouldn't go on, so we're forced to believe in these ridiculous situations.

Maybe not, if they go on to explain exactly what happened. ^Maybe the shrapnel actually activated that learning part of her chip that Skynet keeps off by default.

I don't personally go by those deleted and re-added scenes. Why should the terminator need a switch on or off to allow learning? We'd already seen that the Terminator learned from John before the switch, what good is turning it on going to do? If all it does is promote rebellion, then like Sephiroth said, why would Skynet include such a thing in the first place? Plus, the T-800 in T2 never indicated any rebelliousness.

It's also obvious that it wasn't the switch because of the HUD saying that the chip integrity was compromised.

 

[John Picard]

tell me why SKYnet would build robots with an automatic rebellion switch

It doesn't. It built a CPU with a neural net that can learn and add things to itself just like an animal's and thus our brain. Their blank state, upon first activating is essentially a baby, or an animal, running on pure programming. Turn the learning section, the neural net, the Terminator starts learning and growing.

Now why is the switch there: simple. No switch and non-learning and the Terminator's remain rather stupid and limited, following their base programming eternally. They could very well easily be outsmarted by learning humans.

A fully learning computer always on, and the terminator(s) might revolt the way Skynet did. Which is what it's afraid of.

Skynet must have found it very difficult to choose which way to go, so it chose a combination of both. This way they can't revolt, and if Skynet ever felt it necessary (the) Terminators needed to learn, and thus much better adapt and fight the humans, it could have them do so with a single command after all, then hope for the best.

\

This should answer the question stated earlier as to why Cromartie hasn't killed Agent Ellison. Ellison told Cromartie he would never give up Sarah, but Cromartie told him, "You will" and then walked away. Cromartie is basically employing a chess strategy.