Just watched B5 "TKO" season one

[Danoz]

This was a great episode!

Why did everybody warn me of it being terrible? I found both archs sufficiently entertaining and the fighting "Rocky meets Mortal Kombat meet Space Opera" pretty cool. Also the deal with Ivanova and her father was a great side-story throughout. What's wrong with a little bit of human success in the intergalactic fighting arena?

What gives?
No spoilers past this episode, please .

 

[backstept]

I just watched it too . . .
I thought the Muta-do was pretty funny . . . total stereotype

I liked it

[edit] I'm on my first time through B5 also . . . we watched TNG and DS9 at the time B5 started so we never got into it
I love it so far
I'm up to episode 18

 

[Neroon]

I'm not the best person to answer this, because I tend to gloss over the imperfections more and more as the years go by. Part of the answer may be that it occurs early enough in the series that the actors are still getting used to the story and their characters. The fighting subplot probably gets dinged because it's a bit cliched. Incidentally, do you know the significance of Garibaldi's friend being named "Walker Smith"?

Spoiler: the name's significance - culled from The Lurker's Guide

* Walker Smith was the real name of famed boxer Sugar Ray Robinson.
* Guest star Greg McKinney died on April 12, 1998. Coincidentally, Sugar Ray Robinson died on April 12, 1989.

For my part, I thoroughly enjoyed Ivanova's subplot, because her character needed some room to flex. It gives her character a bit more sympathy, while at the same time bringing out a very real truth about grieving.

 

[Hyperspace05]

UGH.... TKO is probably my least favorite episode of the entire show. Ugh.

 

[Brian]

Mine too. Hated it on first viewing and never watched it again.

 

[Neroon]

So why exactly, do you guys dislike the episode so much? I'm not denying that you have good reasons, just understandably curious. Simply saying that you hate it - which is a perfectly valid stance - is kind of boringfor the rest of us.

 

[LitmusDragon]

This was one of my favorites of the first season episodes. I think it helps that I'm a boxing fan.

 

[Smiley]

I'm curious as to people's reasons as well. Off the top of my head, I'd list "Grey 17 is Missing" as my least favorite for general weirdness. "TKO" may tread some old ground, but it's a story that hits several good emotional beats.

 

[Tulin]

For me, it's the fact that the A story really has nothing to do with ANYTHING. It brings in a friend of one of the characters and centres around him. It feels like one of those old '70's shows where suddenly a guest star is brought in, it's all about him and you KNOW it's just a way of doing a pilot without actually doing a pilot("Assignment Earth").

Add to that the fact that boxing is incredibly boring - and yes, I KNOW it's meant to be a version of muay thai - I had a friend involved in state championships at the time I originally saw it - the black guy cannot act, the episode is filled with cultural stereotypes and so on. I am also not even getting into the horrible B plot with Claudia.

The ep is just a mess and is the ONLY ep I actually skipped when showing my partner the entire run recently.

 

[Neroon]

I'm curious as to people's reasons as well. Off the top of my head, I'd list "Grey 17 is Missing" as my least favorite for general weirdness. "TKO" may tread some old ground, but it's a story that hits several good emotional beats.

The thing about "Grey 17 Is Missing" for me, is that the B plot is so good it makes up for the A plot's failure. A failure which even jms himself confesses to. That's why I never can rate "Grey 17" at the absolute bottom. I'll see if I can find my own personal rating of the entire series, ep by ep.....

 

[Sean_McCormick]

I'm curious as to people's reasons as well. Off the top of my head, I'd list "Grey 17 is Missing" as my least favorite for general weirdness. "TKO" may tread some old ground, but it's a story that hits several good emotional beats.

The thing about "Grey 17 Is Missing" for me, is that the B plot is so good it makes up for the A plot's failure. A failure which even jms himself confesses to. That's why I never can rate "Grey 17" at the absolute bottom. I'll see if I can find my own personal rating of the entire series, ep by ep.....

This is something that (im my view) goes with most B5 episodes with a weak storyline, usually the other one i like. Gray 17 and TKO are both examples for this. The Delenn/Neroon/Enthil'Zha story in Grey 17 is very good (and puts Neroon into position for the Minbari Civil War), likewise is the Ivanova storyline in TKO.

 

[Booji]

imo, Soulhunter was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. i actually don't mind TKO for what it is. The Gathering is also pretty craptastic. I'm glad I watched the pilot at the very end, otherwise I never would have watched any of season 1.

 

[Brian]

Another vote for "boxing is boring and should never be mixed with sci-fi".

(No, I didn't like the boxing episodes of Voyager or nuBSG, either.)

 

[Lindley]

imo, Soulhunter was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. i actually don't mind TKO for what it is. The Gathering is also pretty craptastic. I'm glad I watched the pilot at the very end, otherwise I never would have watched any of season 1.

I don't think you can fairly judge The Gathering if it's watched last. The style of storytelling has evolved so completely by that point that there's just no comparison. As a starting point, though, it's not half-bad.

 

[Lindley]

Another vote for "boxing is boring and should never be mixed with sci-fi".

(No, I didn't like the boxing episodes of Voyager or nuBSG, either.)

Agree, but the Angel episode was actually pretty decent.

 

[Brian]

imo, Soulhunter was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. i actually don't mind TKO for what it is. The Gathering is also pretty craptastic. I'm glad I watched the pilot at the very end, otherwise I never would have watched any of season 1.

I don't think you can fairly judge The Gathering if it's watched last. The style of storytelling has evolved so completely by that point that there's just no comparison. As a starting point, though, it's not half-bad.

I agree. "The Gathering" should be watched first. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny after you've watched the series. Plus, it lays the groundwork for the major races and characters, and several mysteries which take a while to unfold in the series (what is a Vorlon, what is the Grey Council and what is Delenn's relationship to it, and the "hole in your mind" comment come immediately to mind).

Another vote for "boxing is boring and should never be mixed with sci-fi".

(No, I didn't like the boxing episodes of Voyager or nuBSG, either.)

Agree, but the Angel episode was actually pretty decent.

I never watched "Angel". I could never sit through an entire episode of "Buffy" so I didn't even give its spin-off a first glance.

More evidence for "boxing in sci-fi is bad"... Q's episode of DS9.

 

[Daedalus12]

I'll see if I can find my own personal rating of the entire series, ep by ep.....

I can't be sure but TKO might be the 2nd lowest rated episode on Lurker's guide behind Infection.

This was a great episode!

Why did everybody warn me of it being terrible?.... "Rocky meets Mortal Kombat meet Space Opera" pretty cool.
No spoilers past this episode, please .

You just answered your own question.

 

[Brian]

Why did everybody warn me of it being terrible?.... "Rocky meets Mortal Kombat meet Space Opera"

You just answered your own question.

So true.

 

[Rÿcher]

Still better than Legend of the Rangers and the X-Files episode of Crusade.

 

[Forbin]

I actually LIKE Soul Hunter - how can you not love an evil space Popeye?

I also liked Infection. I though it was very Trek TOS-like.