Can Founders recognize each other?

[alpha_leonis]

I remember it said that if a Founder takes on the form of a rock, then he'll show up as a rock on a scanner, rather than as a shape-shifting lifeform.

However, can a Founder so disguised be recognized by other Founders? If Odo walks into a room where Founder-Rock is hiding, would Odo be able to recognize the rock for what it is?

 

[Bacl]

I believe they can, to a certain extent. Odo has sensed his people when they were in another form, such as when that one Founder was posing as the Admiral on Earth. We've even seen a few glimpses that changelings can coax each other out of their shapes.

I think with shapeshifting, like any skill (one Odo is quite poor at), different people have different capabilities. A very clever and skilled Founder could likely spot Odo in a second, regardless of his form.

I always liked Old Man Sisko's rant that "if was a real smart shapeshifter" he'd find some poor sap and suck the blood right out of him, spit out as much as anyone needs.

 

[Finn]

Besides we never are told how Odo/Founders sees. For all we know, a founder posing as a rock "looks" different from a real rock in a certain way to them, depending on how their senses work.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

Odo was suspicious of the Changling doppleganger in Homefront, but he didn't know until he challenged him. Somehow Odo sensed the hostility emanating from the Changling. So, no. Odo and other Changlings have usually been extremely keen, discerning observers.

 

[Jono]

Odo also couldn't tell that the Female changeling was pretending to be Kira in one episode or that a changeling was pretending to be a Federation ambassador in another. This might as mentioned before just be because he has not had much interaction with his people.

 

[sbk1234]

^^^Isn't he also considered quite young by Changeling standards? In the episode "Children of Time," as he got older his own abilities improved greatly. Presumably, his ability to recognize other shape-shifters could improve, also.

 

[Bacl]

Odo also couldn't tell that the Female changeling was pretending to be Kira in one episode or that a changeling was pretending to be a Federation ambassador in another. This might as mentioned before just be because he has not had much interaction with his people.

True, but the female changeling was probably one of the best shapeshifters around. If anyone could fool Odo...she could. Keep in mind Odo could tell when furnature had been moved mere milimeters. Obviously changeling perception is very different than our own.

^^^Isn't he also considered quite young by Changeling standards? In the episode "Children of Time," as he got older his own abilities improved greatly. Presumably, his ability to recognize other shape-shifters could improve, also.

A very good point. Odo may take the shape of an adult, but given his species insanely long lives (damn near immortal, from the evidence presented) he is just a child.

When he first found his people the female changeling said he wasn't expected back home for 'some time.' It was implied he was VERY, VERY young and that his people live a very, very long time.

Even poor old Dr. Mora when he lost his temper shouted that Odo was never a very good shapeshifter.

 

[Jono]

Just had a look at Laas over at MA to see how he found Odo and it says Laas sensed the presence of Odo on the runabout and identified him as a changeling like himself. So that lends weight to the fact they can decern each other when they are not all gooey.

However, Laas was also probably several hundred years older then Odo and his abilities were much more advanced so Odo's lack of sense seems to be because he is still very young.

 

[Bacl]

However, Laas was also probably several hundred years older then Odo and his abilities were much more advanced so Odo's lack of sense seems to be because he is still very young.

Lass was indeed much older than Odo.

Also, Laas really had a knack for shapeshifting. He was able to do things Odo didn't even imagine. I don't think this was entirely age, but skill. Some people just can't play the piano masterfully, no matter how long they live and practice. And Odo didn't 'practice' much...although he did a bit more when he got his own quarters.

 

[Damask]

Also, Laas really had a knack for shapeshifting. He was able to do things Odo didn't even imagine. I don't think this was entirely age, but skill. Some people just can't play the piano masterfully, no matter how long they live and practice. And Odo didn't 'practice' much...although he did a bit more when he got his own quarters.

True. There was things that he never even thought of though. Like when the Female Founder said that it was nice to simply be a cloud in the sky.

 

[Bacl]

Also, Laas really had a knack for shapeshifting. He was able to do things Odo didn't even imagine. I don't think this was entirely age, but skill. Some people just can't play the piano masterfully, no matter how long they live and practice. And Odo didn't 'practice' much...although he did a bit more when he got his own quarters.

True. There was things that he never even thought of though. Like when the Female Founder said that it was nice to simply be a cloud in the sky.

Yeah, lack of imagination has gotta be a real handicap for a shapeshifter. The most clever thing I saw Odo do was become a transparent film on the monitor display. And that was years after having met his people, practicing in his room, linking with others, etc.

By the end of the series Odo is able to copy the form of another (the female shapeshifter), something he claimed early on he was incapable of. Other changelings could do this with ease.

 

[Unicron]

I agree with some of the good points here. Odo also said in "The Search" that the Founders "dislike" taking humanoid form. It would make sense then that, if they were not connected in the Great Link, they would have some means of sensing one another.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

By the end of the series Odo is able to copy the form of another (the female shapeshifter), something he claimed early on he was incapable of. Other changelings could do this with ease.

I wonder if that's because he got the "blueprints" direct from her when he linked with her?

 

[Bacl]

By the end of the series Odo is able to copy the form of another (the female shapeshifter), something he claimed early on he was incapable of. Other changelings could do this with ease.

I wonder if that's because he got the "blueprints" direct from her when he linked with her?

Very likely. I was not convinced Odo could suddenly make himself look like O'brien or Dax, but that he had spent to much 'linked' with her that he learned her humanoid form.

And I doubt he could have fooled other Founders. Or even the Vorta for too long.

 

[SoM]

Plus, it seems unlikely that the female Changeling mimicked internal organs, etc in her Odo-type form since Odo didn't (although with him it was a "couldn't" - the others could and did when mimicking actual humanoids). That, and the lack of facial structure, had to have made copying her easier than copying, say, Chief O'Brien.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

I have a thought and a question about that. In one of the first episodes of season 6, Odo showed the female Founder how humanoids shared intimacy. I thought at the time that he had shown he cuddling, kissing, etc. Did you think that they had actually mimicked the sexual anatomy of humans for that purpose?

 

[SoM]

I have a thought and a question about that. In one of the first episodes of season 6, Odo showed the female Founder how humanoids shared intimacy. I thought at the time that he had shown he cuddling, kissing, etc. Did you think that they had actually mimicked the sexual anatomy of humans for that purpose?

Since he'd already had humanoid sex in A Simple Investigation, I'd say "yep".

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

Must have been unfulfilling, much the way Odo couldn't really enjoy food until he was a real humanoid.

 

[Phily B]

Odo only knew about that Admiral changeling cause he was being an asshole.

 

[Bacl]

Odo only knew about that Admiral changeling cause he was being an asshole.

Odo, or the Admiral?

Cause Odo is always a little grumpy.