My Trek through The Dominion War

[Lindley]

Well, I've finished my run with WYLB today. "Til Death Do Us Part" was the last episode I'd never seen before, incidentally.

Speaking of WYLB.....amazing how Dukat and Winn's little trip into the Fire Caves took so long that Sisko had time to go to Cardassia, win the war, and come back. Oh, Dukat must have been gloating for 3 hours after becoming the Emmisary of the Pah-Wraiths, because Sisko managed to get to Bajor in that time.

Shame the space battle was about 40% reused footage. They did mention on one of the special features that they'd been forced to trim it down a bit. Say what you will about the quality of B5's CGI, they did more big sequences without reusing anything major. Just Starfury launch sequences, establishing shots, and the like.

I suppose a lot of the effects budget must have gone to the Fire Caves sequence. And they did a good job there, certainly.

With all the Alamo references in the Final Chapter, it really makes you wonder just how late in the game a series-ender with DS9 surrounded by a Dominion fleet (again) was a possibility.....

 

[Sisko4Life]

I agree Lindley. I liked WYLB until I saw the reused scenes... really destroyed my opinion of it. I mean it was ok, but Sacrifice of Angels did the large battle thing so much better. Speaking of Sacrifice of Angels, why does the fleets used in that episode look much larger than the allied invasion of Cardassia? Seriously, it looked like they took 20 ships, all split up between the races.

 

[Augustus]

I agree,
This is a great episode with great story and a satisfying ending to DS9.
Ironically the only two things I didn't like about it were two things they added after filming.

1) the battle with a ton of reused footage as already mentioned..
2) the memory "slideshow" if you will with different characters... mostly Worf's... just real incomplete...

other than that... the episode was great

 

[Jono]

I agree Lindley. I liked WYLB until I saw the reused scenes... really destroyed my opinion of it. I mean it was ok, but Sacrifice of Angels did the large battle thing so much better. Speaking of Sacrifice of Angels, why does the fleets used in that episode look much larger than the allied invasion of Cardassia? Seriously, it looked like they took 20 ships, all split up between the races.

You could say WYLB would be a slightly more realistic view of a Trek space battle given the supposed ranges of sensors and weapons and the speeds ships can reach a battle involving large numbers of ships would be very spread out with few ships actually been within visual range of each other.

However, that would look crap on TV so they tend to bunch all the ships so they are within metres of each other like they did for SoA. It looks fantastic but doesn't make "sense".

On the reused footage, the SoA stuff should not have been there because it doesn't gel with the other scenes we see. All the other scenes as you've pointed out show that the two sides are spread out with small groups engaging each other and then we see SoA which shows a massive grouping of ships. The Tears scenes work because they deal with smaller groups of ships, which matches the new footage.

 

[Sisko4Life]

Well, moving on... I rewatched the next two episodes:

"Once More Unto the Breach" - this was a decent episode. I didn't care for Kor much but the mission that they were on was very cool. Those raids were nice idea, nice scenes, and good strategy by Martok. I never understood how dropping the Jem'Hadar out of warp for a few minutes means they can't catch up in 3 hours. Very confusing....?

"The Siege of AR-558" - THE best episode of this season so far. I love this one! Ground battles are something that wasn't shown well enough in the war. The struggle to hold planets is an integral part of interstellar warfare. It was good to see Sisko looking out for Rom too, it was like a second father moment. And unlike most episodes, I was very impressed with the hand-to-hand combat (usually it looks fake, especially with Kira beating the crap out of Cardies). The Jem'Hadar were ruthless but the final fight scene really sealed the deal for me. 5-stars!!!

 

[Lindley]

I never understood how dropping the Jem'Hadar out of warp for a few minutes means they can't catch up in 3 hours. Very confusing....?

Jem'Hadar fighters aren't that much faster than Birds of Prey. Giving the BOPs more of a lead increases the overtake time. I'm not sure what's confusing about that.

 

[Cyke101]

In regards to the fight scenes of SoA and WYLB, I think it's important to note that the SoA battle was supposed to look cramped and messy, due to the Dominion jamming Starfleet communications at the start of the battle. Our heroes were grossly uncoordinated and it shows.

WYLB could be a bigger battle than SoA. We're never given any numbers to clearly define whether or not it was indeed bigger than SoA, but I'm under the impression that this battle covered much more space. With ships more dispersed over area, what we see on screen could just be the tip of the action at any given time for the sake of scale.

 

[Augustus]

Yeah I agree.. I got the impression that that final battle was HUGE

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

You could say WYLB would be a slightly more realistic view of a Trek space battle given the supposed ranges of sensors and weapons and the speeds ships can reach a battle involving large numbers of ships would be very spread out with few ships actually been within visual range of each other.

However, that would look crap on TV so they tend to bunch all the ships so they are within metres of each other like they did for SoA. It looks fantastic but doesn't make "sense".

I also think with Trek battles, with those massive armadas, that they draw a lot off of World War II imagery. Ever seen the footage of large-scale assaults like D-Day, and the close formations that those bombers fly in? You would never do that these days due to what technology has become, but I still think that imagery is part of the cultural consciousness when it comes to imagining a truly EPIC battle between good and evil.

Another thing I noticed from the What You Leave Behind battles...one tiny touch that really makes you empathize with the Cardassians and the way they're getting completely screwed over by the Dominion. Remember the bit where they're showing ships getting blown up and looking in on the ordinary men and women who are going to their deaths? Even before their fleet switches sides, notice that you get a very heartwrenching little fragment of some poor Cardassian getting incinerated...you get those scenes for the Federation, Klingons, and (I THINK) Romulans, but very pointedly NOT for the Breen or Jem'Hadar.

 

[Sisko4Life]

I think what led to the fall of the Cardassian / Dominion alliance was definately Sisko and the Prophets. The Cardies loved the Dominion when Dukat was in power. He kept Weyoun at bay and had somewhat decent respect from the female founder. After Sacrifice of Angels, you can tell that the alliance was doomed from that point. But whats not to go crazy about 2800 Dominion ships being zapped inside a wormhole by an unknown force. Still, I felt bad for the Cardies at the end of season 7 definately and I started to like Damar.

 

[Augustus]

I think what led to the fall of the Cardassian / Dominion alliance was definately Sisko and the Prophets. The Cardies loved the Dominion when Dukat was in power. He kept Weyoun at bay and had somewhat decent respect from the female founder. After Sacrifice of Angels, you can tell that the alliance was doomed from that point. But whats not to go crazy about 2800 Dominion ships being zapped inside a wormhole by an unknown force. Still, I felt bad for the Cardies at the end of season 7 definately and I started to like Damar.

I kinda disagree, from the very beginning, Dukat was whispering to Damar about how at the end up the war some kind of split would take place between the dominion and cardassia.
I don't know what his plan was, but apparently once the Federation and klingons were beaten he was going to one up the Dominion...

 

[Sisko4Life]

Yeah, I remember that. They were planning to poison the Ketracel White in the Alpha Quadrant to kill the Jem'Hadar.

"Covenant" - Wow, what a messed up episode. The writers really went off the deep end with this Dukat stuff. Has another Cardassian / Bajoron baby and calls it a "miracle".... wow.

"It's Only a Paper Moon" - This episode was okay. Nog was a little crazy though and I kind of lost the respect I gained for him in AR-558.

 

[Navaros]

^

Aww, you didn't appreciate Nog beating the crap out of Jake? IMO that is one of the all-time classic Trek scenes and raises the amount of respect Nog is worthy of.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Yeah, I remember that. They were planning to poison the Ketracel White in the Alpha Quadrant to kill the Jem'Hadar.

"Covenant" - Wow, what a messed up episode. The writers really went off the deep end with this Dukat stuff. Has another Cardassian / Bajoron baby and calls it a "miracle".... wow.

Oh, it was messed-up all right. It creeped the HELL out of me. But you know why it was creepy to me? Because people really DO go that nuts in cults, enough that they WILL follow people as screwed-up as Dukat. The creepiest part, though, was probably watching Dukat pray to the Pah-Wraiths all by himself with no one watching. That's when it became clear that while on one side he was his usual manipulative self...he was also completely and TOTALLY unhinged and devoted to the Pah-Wraiths.

"It's Only a Paper Moon" - This episode was okay. Nog was a little crazy though and I kind of lost the respect I gained for him in AR-558.

With all due respect, I would suggest that if you read up about Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, you might change your mind on that.

 

[Sisko4Life]

With all due respect, I would suggest that if you read up about Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, you might change your mind on that.

I can't even say I understand what Nog was going through and no one can unless you have been in a war. Wanting to be alone and have time to gather your thoughts its all fine, but attacking your best friend and shunning your family for caring about you is a different story. If I lost my leg, you won't see me attacking everyone that cares about me... :-(, thats all I was saying.

"Prodigal Daughter" - Pretty captivating episode. Are there more episodes besides Honor Among Thieves that also deal with the Orion Syndicate? It was cool learning about Ezri's family, and I thought this was one of her better episodes.

"The Emperor's New Cloak" - Ahhh Ferengi and alternate all in one. Much better than I thought it would be. Why is Kira act so promiscuous in the alternate? Right... everything is opposite. Rom and Quark never cease to amaze me. Just when you think the Ferengi are punks they always surprise you at the end.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

With all due respect, I would suggest that if you read up about Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, you might change your mind on that.

I can't even say I understand what Nog was going through and no one can unless you have been in a war. Wanting to be alone and have time to gather your thoughts its all fine, but attacking your best friend and shunning your family for caring about you is a different story. If I lost my leg, you won't see me attacking everyone that cares about me... :-(, thats all I was saying.

Easy to say now. NOT so easy to say once you come back from a war--the effects of which absolutely cannot be taken lightly. What Nog did can and does happen even to the best people, whereas others seem not to have any real problems that they ever let you see. While I have not been in a war myself, I have done enough reading about the subject to know that one simply cannot know what the effect of being in combat will be on you until you actually ARE under fire and in a position of having to live with it.

 

[Sisko4Life]

Fair enough.

"Field of Fire" - mediocre episode. Another Ezri episode.. shes getting a lot of attention that's for sure. But I wasn't surprised a Vulcan was behind the killings haha.

"Chimera" - Another "Odo come with us!" type thing going on here. I like the Odo so I didn't mind this episode. I was a bit confused because in the Occupation Arc when Odo and the Female Changeling were linking I thought she said that was their way of having sex, because Odo showed her the solids way of doing it. So at first I was a bit shocked that two males were "linking" and having pleasure from it. But hey, its trek and not every species is sexual I guess. I was hoping Laas would become less hateful of "solids" after the link.. Odo eventually got the Female changeling to understand even if it took 2 years...

 

[Lindley]

Odo eventually got the Female changeling to understand even if it took 2 years...

I'm not so sure he did. But Odo *did* promise to return to the Great Link, at least for a time, and the Female Changeling had previously stated that his return was more important than the entire alpha quadrant. That may have been enough under the circumstances to give her a graceful way out.

 

[Sisko4Life]

Good point.

"Badda-bing-badda-bang" - I really enjoyed this episode. It seems the DS9 crew does so well in the "every day life" routine. It was cool seeing them in their 1960 casino attire helping out Vic. And Avery Brooks got to showcase his Broadway singing skill. I found this to be one of the best episodes of the season so far.. for entertainment at least.

"Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" - I love all of the Section 31 episodes and this one was no different. I didn't like how they set up Senator Cretak though, she was a good guy! I mean yeah she is a patriot but she was the one who embraces the Federation alliance... but yeah.. those treacherous Romulans. Wasn't surprised that Admiral Ross was down with Section 31. I was more surprised that he chooses a dinky Intreprid class ship for his flagship (why not pick a Galaxy? :-P). Still, this was a good episode worthy of a few re-watches.

 

[Quark]

Seasons 3 and 4 are where most of my DS9 memories are (The Die is Cast was my favorite ep. by far!).
.

During my massive summer holiday this year I have spent most of my time re-watching every single DS9 episode, from start to finish. So far I am halfway through series 5. I agree with you about the memories. Just the humour and everything was coming into play in these series.

"Come to Quark's, Quark's is fun....."

All the goings on with Bashir and Miles etc, I could go on.....