Babylon 5, first episodes feedback

[Harvey]

However, nothing he says is incompatible with what either I or you said.

1. B5 made a sensible, budget conscious choice that was also influential on SFX, an influence that its rival DS9 ultimately benefited from - and DS9 benefited from a far more generous budget, allowing it to blow more on the SFX.
2. B5's effects don't look that great and DS9's look a lot better.

These statements do not conflict.

In essence, all I have to say, except in far less words and with far more diplomacy than I.

Well, I suppose I could also wax on about my pipe dream of Babylon 5 having all of its effects upgraded to the level shown in the Lost Tales, but then I just get sad...

 

[Angel4576]

Re Trek, I always preferred the model work over CGI. I can fully appreciate the necessity of changing from one to the other as they'd never have been able to pull off the Dominion war using models, but for me, the CGI in DS9 took a while to get going and never looked as good as the model work on the small scale stuff.

Re the merits of B5 and DS9's FX, I'll say again, it doesn't much better which were better, DS9's combat sequences rarely gave a sense of any tactics being used. B5's pretty much always did, which is why I've always preferred the sequences from Severed Dreams, Shadow Dancing and Endgame to anything that DS9 did for the Dominion war. The Defiant did the 'loop the loop' at one point FFS!

 

[Orac Zen]

Then there are those of us who don't give a about the effects and just enjoy all the great things B5 has to offer. Or maybe that's just me.

Just saying. No more or less than that.

Stick with it, Danoz.

 

[Cutter John]

I've yet to see any of these 'shitty FX' every else seems to go on about.

Guess I'm just wierd.

 

[Jan]

I'm with Orac Zen and Cutter John. For me, the effects just serve to enhance the story. It would take a lot for the quality (or lack thereof) to throw me out of the story.

Jan

 

[Lindley]

Regarding the FX, I was always quite disappointed by

Please, watch the spoilers.

 

[Angel4576]

^^ Apologies. Completely lost track there. Post edited.

 

[ATimson]

One thing, the visual effects are terrible for 1993, and not very well planned. They're kind of a joke and the costuming is bad.

One other point about the visual effects that nobody else made: they look like worse than they really are on the DVDs because Warner Brothers couldn't be assed to put any effort into making the widescreen masters.

 

[ATimson]

I've always thought that Netter Digital's work was a step down from Foundation's effort. The knowledge that they were behind the visual effects of Frank Herbert's Dune doesn't offer any better an example of their work. I adored that miniseries, but for all its theatricality (including the theatrical background), that still doesn't offer an excuse for the very medicore visual effects (I admit, some shots are better than others).

Netter Digital was not exclusively responsible for Dune's CGI; they only worked on the spaceship shots and the "Water of Life" sequence.

 

[Hyperspace05]

GEEZ, did we really need another models vs. CG thread??????

What happened to feedback on the actual episodes?

 

[ATimson]

GEEZ, did we really need another models vs. CG thread??????

What happened to feedback on the actual episodes?

Well, there's only so much we can say about the poster's other comments; either it'd verge on spoiler territory, or frankly, they're true. So we sieze on the one bit that can be justified.

 

[Phily B]

Season 1 is pretty craptacular, but worth watching. Better second time through after watching all the other seasons.

 

[Worf412]

Re Trek, I always preferred the model work over CGI. I can fully appreciate the necessity of changing from one to the other as they'd never have been able to pull off the Dominion war using models, but for me, the CGI in DS9 took a while to get going and never looked as good as the model work on the small scale stuff.

Agreed completely.

 

[Lindley]

Almost forgot----the "Zoom into C&C" shot in the title sequence is another one that would be impossible with models.

 

[Reverend]

Not impossible, it can be done with rear projection slides on a motion control rig, but it would be bloody difficult, the miniature would be huge and you'd have to comp in the rest of the station and match the rotation. That's the real difference with computer graphics, it made things already (barely) possible with existing technology a hell of a lot cheaper and quicker but without a proportionately lower standard of quality.
So yes, early season one effects are a bit ropey, but by midway through the season it had already advanced leaps and bounds and by the end of season two I think it had easily surpassed the show's contemporaries. Some of the effects in seasons 3 & 4 even rivalled some movies that were out at the time, at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Jan]

Danoz, where are you?? What episode are you on? Looking back at the original post, I recalled one aspect of the costuming that I was *really* glad to see go; Delenn's early flared outfits. I much prefered the look later on.

Jan

 

[DWF]

Almost forgot----the "Zoom into C&C" shot in the title sequence is another one that would be impossible with models.

There was a similar shot in Generations, the final shot of the Enterprise B.

 

[chrisspringob]

Almost forgot----the "Zoom into C&C" shot in the title sequence is another one that would be impossible with models.

There was a similar shot in Generations, the final shot of the Enterprise B.

Didn't Generations also use some CG....or was that your point?

 

[DWF]

Almost forgot----the "Zoom into C&C" shot in the title sequence is another one that would be impossible with models.

There was a similar shot in Generations, the final shot of the Enterprise B.

Didn't Generations also use some CG....or was that your point?

Generations didn't use that much CGI and as far as I know that shot might've been edited with a computer but it was shot with cameras.

 

[Harvey]

I'm also reminded of the final shot of Deep Space Nine (the zoom out from the station window with Kira and Jake). Realizing that that was accomplished years later, and with a bigger budget, was that a computer generated image or model work?

I know there was some CGI employed in Generations, but I'm uncertain about that particular shot.