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Could Enterprise have worked if there were no 24th Century Trek?

darkshadow0001

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
I was visiting StarTrek.com and looking at some pics of Enterprise, and just had a thought. If this series had no 24th Century Trek references to refer too, do you think this show could of worked? There would not have been as much canon to worry about, and it could of went on its way.

Thoughts?
 
I thought Enterprise did work. The only big difference I would have liked to see is a human doctor whose abilities don't border on miraculous. People die (anybody else notice no one was killed in the first two seasons or permanently maimed over the entire series?). I submit that's not realistic and detracts from the reality (and drama!!) of space travel.
 
People die (anybody else notice no one was killed in the first two seasons or permanently maimed over the entire series?). I submit that's not realistic and detracts from the reality (and drama!!) of space travel.

However, crewmembers suddenly started to die on a regular basis in Season 3. In retrospect that made a lot of sense, because it did underline the dangerousness of their new mission. While they had conducted "harmless" exploration in Seasons 1 and 2, things got rough in Season 3.

Unrealistic is the high number of redshirts who had to bite the dust in TOS. Acccording to "Ex Astris Scientia" (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/tos.htm), the original Enterprise lost approximately 56 crewmembers. So, strictly speaking, they only had a crew of 374 instead of 430 at the end of their 3rd season (unless the NCC-1701 refreshed its stockpile of redshirts at a starbase each week). :lol: But that's why TOS is sometimes fun to watch...



As for the OP's question: Well, the main problem since Voyager was to come up with original ideas. They wanted to create something entirely new with Voyager, but in the end they produced "TNG-lite". They wanted to to go in totally new directions with Enterprise, but they mostly ended up with "Voyager in the 22nd century" instead... at least in their first two seasons. Without the TNG/DS9/VOY "baggage" a lot of the ideas used in Enterprise would still have been new and original, so maybe the show could have been more successful.

However, instead of "erasing" the three 24th century series from existence, I would have preferred that the 4th season of Enterprise had actually been the 1st season of Enterprise. That way, the series would have used its potential from day one: Go with the "Birth of the Federation" concept by showing how mutual cooperation between the founding members of the future Federation came into being, instead of wasting time on a "Temporal Cold War" arc where not even the writing staff seemed to know what the point was. Instead of having the Ferengi, the Borg or bland new alien races like the Suliban show up, concentrate on exploring underdeveloped TOS cultures like the Andorians, Tellarites, or Orions.

In addition, I would have kept the technology a bit more "primitive". The grapplers were a good concept, as were the torpedoes from Seasons 1 and 2. But I would have gotten rid of the Transporter entirely. And I would have never introduced the "photonic torpedoes". They also should have kept the plasma cannons and pistols from "Broken Bow" instead of replacing them with "phase cannons" and "phase pistols". Ah, and the "hull plating" was only a thinly disguised stand-in for shields.

So, to summarize my proposals to improve Enterprise (if I were only an exec at Paramount and had a time machine ;) ):
- No transporter.
- No phase pistols, phase cannons, or photonic torpedoes. Use plasma weapons and the more primitive spatial tropedoes instead.
- Don't treat the hull plating like shields (= no "polarization").
- No Temporal Cold War.
- No Suliban, Xindi, Ferengi, Borg or aliens-of-the-week who could have appeared on Voyager just as well. Main races: Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites, and Orions. Maybe also some appearances by the Klingons and Romulans, but not too early in the series.
- Use the Season 4 themes from the start... birth of the Federation, prelude to the Romulan War, exploration of the cultures who later founded the Federation, conflicts between those cultures, maybe some Eugenics Wars stuff like in the Augments arc.
 
People die (anybody else notice no one was killed in the first two seasons or permanently maimed over the entire series?). I submit that's not realistic and detracts from the reality (and drama!!) of space travel.

However, crewmembers suddenly started to die on a regular basis in Season 3. In retrospect that made a lot of sense, because it did underline the dangerousness of their new mission. While they had conducted "harmless" exploration in Seasons 1 and 2, things got rough in Season 3.
My point is that in seasons 1 & 2, whenever someone got hurt on NX-01, Phlox was such a great, fantabulous doctor he could cure/fix everything. A hundred years later, McCoy wouldn't have that record. Two hundred years later Crusher, Bashir and even The Doctor wouldn't have that record. It was ridiculous.

Unrealistic is the high number of redshirts who had to bite the dust in TOS. ...
You're absolutely right. More than 40 years later, even people who never watched Star Trek get the RedShirtitis joke.

As for the OP's question: Well, the main problem since Voyager was to come up with original ideas. They wanted to create something entirely new with Voyager, but in the end they produced "TNG-lite". They wanted to to go in totally new directions with Enterprise, but they mostly ended up with "Voyager in the 22nd century" instead... at least in their first two seasons. Without the TNG/DS9/VOY "baggage" a lot of the ideas used in Enterprise would still have been new and original, so maybe the show could have been more successful.
I don't consider 24th century Trek to be baggage. First of all, Voyager is set in another part of the galaxy, so their experiences would have zero impact on a prequel. What is remarkable to me is that so many fans see only TOS as fair game for adapting story ideas.

However, instead of "erasing" the three 24th century series from existence, I would have preferred that the 4th season of Enterprise had actually been the 1st season of Enterprise. That way, the series would have used its potential from day one: Go with the "Birth of the Federation" concept by showing how mutual cooperation between the founding members of the future Federation came into being, instead of wasting time on a "Temporal Cold War" arc where not even the writing staff seemed to know what the point was. Instead of having the Ferengi, the Borg or bland new alien races like the Suliban show up, concentrate on exploring underdeveloped TOS cultures like the Andorians, Tellarites, or Orions.
Actually, I would have preferred a mixture of season 4 and seasons 1 and 2. As much as I love season 4, I don't think a steady diet of that would have worked either. There are some terrific episodes in Seasons 1 and 2 that have nothing to do with the Federation, established alien species or the Romulan threat. I'm good with that. It's a big galaxy, and I don't have a problem with the Ferengi or the Borg episodes -- in the context used on the show, they worked well enough.

In addition, I would have kept the technology a bit more "primitive". The grapplers were a good concept, as were the torpedoes from Seasons 1 and 2. But I would have gotten rid of the Transporter entirely. And I would have never introduced the "photonic torpedoes". They also should have kept the plasma cannons and pistols from "Broken Bow" instead of replacing them with "phase cannons" and "phase pistols". Ah, and the "hull plating" was only a thinly disguised stand-in for shields.

So, to summarize my proposals to improve Enterprise (if I were only an exec at Paramount and had a time machine ;) ):
- No transporter.
- No phase pistols, phase cannons, or photonic torpedoes. Use plasma weapons and the more primitive spatial tropedoes instead.
- Don't treat the hull plating like shields (= no "polarization").
- No Temporal Cold War.
- No Suliban, Xindi, Ferengi, Borg or aliens-of-the-week who could have appeared on Voyager just as well. Main races: Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites, and Orions. Maybe also some appearances by the Klingons and Romulans, but not too early in the series.
- Use the Season 4 themes from the start... birth of the Federation, prelude to the Romulan War, exploration of the cultures who later founded the Federation, conflicts between those cultures, maybe some Eugenics Wars stuff like in the Augments arc.
One thing that I think might have helped in this area is if Enterprise had been set only 30 or so years after the events of First Contact, rather than nearly a century.

Cochrane and Lily were able to design and build a warp 2 engine under some pretty poor conditions. So why would it take humanity another 90 years and Vulcan "permission" to build a warp 5 engine (knowing from Picard and Co. that even greater warp speeds are possible?)
 
I believe Enterprise was superb sci-fi, if not good Star Trek... Having said that, I really enjoyed the first two seasons, they really captured the whole idea of being new to space exploration early on...

It's a shame the Suliban never got fleshed out more, they could've worked without the Temporal Cold War in my opinion.

I enjoyed season 4, though I've got to admit, it's not my favourite... I agree that the multi-story arcs are what they should've been doing earlier on, maybe season 2 after the crew got over the new-ness of it all.

One thing I never understood about season 4 was that Starfleet seemed to have stretched out far and wide while Enterprise was in the Expanse (Cold Station 12 for example), whereas previously, they were only supposed to have dithered out into a couple of nearby systems.

I agree that the show would've had a whole different feel if they'd kept the old spatial torpedoes, plasma cannons, etc. Not sure about getting rid of the transporter altogether, but they seemed to adopt it and become comfortable with it really quickly.

One thing the series did do, which they could've capitalised on, was the idea of life outside Starfleet - the Earth Cargo Authority and the mining company on Luna. I know they mentioned that the Royal Navy was still around and we saw the MACOs. Wasn't there a mention of UESPA at some point too?

It seemed like the writers were always too eager to do their little winks and nods to the future (particularly with the TCW), which didn't help the series.

Would it have worked without the 24th Century though? I doubt it. As much as I loved Enterprise, I think the series would've seemed pretty hollow without the audience knowing where it was all leading...

Just my (extremely long) two cents :alienblush:
 
I think if the SciFi Channel started Enterprise today and it had nothing to do with the Star Trek universe, many people who hate it because of canon and preconceived expectations would love it.
 
People die (anybody else notice no one was killed in the first two seasons or permanently maimed over the entire series?). I submit that's not realistic and detracts from the reality (and drama!!) of space travel.


My point is that in seasons 1 & 2, whenever someone got hurt on NX-01, Phlox was such a great, fantabulous doctor he could cure/fix everything. A hundred years later, McCoy wouldn't have that record. Two hundred years later Crusher, Bashir and even The Doctor wouldn't have that record. It was ridiculous.
Not to mention Phlox created a "cure / treatment" for Borg nanoprobes. :lol:
 
Some of the problems with Voyager were due to UPN's meddling. They wanted it to be TNG Lite because TNG got ratings, and Michael Piller ultimately left the show because of it.
 
I was visiting StarTrek.com and looking at some pics of Enterprise, and just had a thought. If this series had no 24th Century Trek references to refer too, do you think this show could of worked? There would not have been as much canon to worry about, and it could of went on its way.

Thoughts?

no
 
I think if the SciFi Channel started Enterprise today and it had nothing to do with the Star Trek universe, many people who hate it because of canon and preconceived expectations would love it.

But then people would complain about the fact that the show is merely a Star Trek rip-off. ;)
 
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