The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I give it a B. In some ways BB was better. I thought there was a lot of talking. it went from one important plot point to another rather abruptly. We heard that Dent was the white knight-like saviour over six times.

What happened the court rooms... they looked like sets compared to the first film...and Wayne Tower was completely different.

I was not a phane of the donar-vision thing at the end...nor did I like the bat-pod... I thought the tumbler was good because it seemed to be real vehicle. I doubt it was designed with a stupid motor cycle in it.


But the film worked on a lot of levels. For someone who had no philosphy, Joker had a lot of interesting things to say. I liked that

Bale looked thin and uninterested in this film. a bit detatched. Also it seemed that Dent had become more important as a character. I'm not a Two Face fan, but the story came off better for the character than I expected. Still those burns were so severe and Dent didn't act like he was in that much pain after a while. After a while, it looked like makeup.

 

[nx1701g]

and Wayne Tower was completely different.

After Bruce took over there were changes and updates made to his company.

I was not a phane of the donar-vision thing at the end...nor did I like the bat-pod... I thought the tumbler was good because it seemed to be real vehicle. I doubt it was designed with a stupid motor cycle in it.

They claimed that an escape system was designed into it in the first film. I didn't have a problem with it.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

I just got back from seeing it again. The movie is just as awesome the second time as it was the first. Also it allowed me to pick up on more things.

My only problem, still, is that I don't like Bale's Batman voice and I don't think it is entirely his fault it sounds like it's being heavly tweaked in post.

It's just too much, too strong, and too intense. It's something that really, really, REALLY needs to be fixed. I will agree, though, that Bale is a very good Batman/Bruce otherwise.

The whole raspy thing? Me, too. I keep wondering how sore his vocal cords were after each take.

I loved it. Saw it in IMAX with about 300 of my (now) closest friends. Got in line at 11:30 for the 12pm showing. I was so far back in line, I had to take a seat up front.

The first guy in line (insert joke about him never seeing a grown woman naked here) got in line at 9am when the museum opened its doors.

 

[Manticore]

Wayne Tower threw me at first, but upon reflection, it's quite likely that they moved after the last building got a train run through it. With the way that the train took out so many of the supports, it wouldn't surprise me if the building was condemned.

I'll admit that I was surprised that Bruce's girlfriend at the beginning of the movie could speak English. I was put strongly in mind with his girlfriend in "Batman: Year One" who couldn't.

 

[Goliath]

Well if this Batman has a theme it's not great enough for me to know it. Look at Indiana Jones, Superman, James Bond all have iconic, recognisable, grand themes.

The same can't really be said about this Batman mostly becuase I think the music and score is uninspired.

I like the USE of music in this movie, the action scenes aren't overblown with it, infact, the music is almost absent in the action scenes, but a great, grand, theme is needed for Batman.

Straining to think about I think I can scarely hear it my head but it's not something grand and awesome that you can hum/vocalize out loud like Superman's theme or Indy's.

I think part of the problem is that you want the score to be something that it's not.

Composers like Williams and Elfman both write film music in a Romantic vein, full of the Wagnerian motifs you're calling "themes."

Zimmer and Howard's scores for both of Nolan's Batman movies are far more minimalist.

There is a Batman "theme," and it's quite distinctive, when you hear it. But it's just two long notes in the background, like a hunting horn: naa-NAA. My knowledge of music theory is relatively limited, and my ear is not altogether reliable, but I believe the interval between the two is called a "perfect fourth". It's heavy, slow, and somber.

By comparison, Elfman's six-note Batman theme sounds busy and corny, especially when played quickly, on brass instruments: ba-ba-ba-BAAAT-man...ba-ba-ba-bat...bat-MAN! It works in the context of Elfman's score, but it would have stood out like a sore thumb in Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

To me, Elfman's theme evokes Batman rushing around and beating up the bad guys--sock! pow! biff! bam! Whereas those two notes in Zimmer and Howard's theme evoke Batman perched on top of a building, looking down at Gotham City by night, contemplating his next move, or perhaps just brooding about how tortured and emo he is.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Well if this Batman has a theme it's not great enough for me to know it. Look at Indiana Jones, Superman, James Bond all have iconic, recognisable, grand themes.

The same can't really be said about this Batman mostly becuase I think the music and score is uninspired.

I like the USE of music in this movie, the action scenes aren't overblown with it, infact, the music is almost absent in the action scenes, but a great, grand, theme is needed for Batman.

Straining to think about I think I can scarely hear it my head but it's not something grand and awesome that you can hum/vocalize out loud like Superman's theme or Indy's.

I think part of the problem is that you want the score to be something that it's not.

Composers like Williams and Elfman both write film music in a Romantic vein, full of the Wagnerian motifs you're calling "themes."

Zimmer and Howard's scores for both of Nolan's Batman movies are far more minimalist.

There is a Batman "theme," and it's quite distinctive, when you hear it. But it's just two long notes in the background, like a hunting horn: naa-NAA. My knowledge of music theory is relatively limited, and my ear is not altogether reliable, but I believe the interval between the two is called a "perfect fourth". It's heavy, slow, and somber.

By comparison, Elfman's six-note Batman theme sounds busy and corny, especially when played quickly, on brass instruments: ba-ba-ba-BAAAT-man...ba-ba-ba-bat...bat-MAN!) It works in the context of Elfman's score, but it would have stood out like a sore thumb in Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

To me, Elfman's theme evokes Batman rushing around and beating up the bad guys--sock! pow! biff! bam! Whereas those two notes in Zimmer and Howard's theme evoke Batman perched on top of a building, looking down at Gotham City by night, contemplating his next move, or perhaps just brooding about how tortured and emo he is.

I agree with you, save for the fact that you use the word "emo" at the end. That word drives me, well, bats.

 

[Goliath]

I agree with you, save for the fact that you use the word "emo" at the end. That word drives me, well, bats.

Why so serious?

 

[Garrett]

I saw the Dark Knight this morning at the local Imax. I've been looking forward to seeing a sequel ever since Batman Begins. Though, oddly enough I never felt the same sort of excitement for the movie that I've seen on display from other fans online. I thought it was excellent.

As mentioned by others, Bale, Oldman, and Eckhart all put in excellent performances. Ledger was great, of course, but Gordon's story here ended up sort of stealing the show for me by the end. Especially his lines about Batman as the Dark Knight.

I know I'm in the minority, but I liked Katie Holmes as Rachel Dawes, and was disappointed to see her character recast. She's hot, too, unlike Gyllenhall. Maggie Gyllenhall did all right with the character, though.

I went with my brother, his wife, and my mother. I was really suprised that my mother enjoyed it as much as she did. She kept going on about the movie quite awhile after leaving the theater.

Anyway, I hope to see the movie again in the next week or two. Looking forward to the next one, as well.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I agree that Holmes wasn't as bad as everyone says, and I personally like her better than the new actress. Plus recasting is always tough. The new actress is much bigger... and remember the poster for BB where Batman is carrying Rachel in his arms.. I doubt he could do so with the new actress...

 

[cardinal biggles]

Ledger was great but I do feel that he is overshadowing the others a bit.

To be fair, Ledger's performance still probably would have overshadowed the others even if he hadn't died. Even before his death, most of the buzz regarding The Dark Knight was about how disturbingly awesome he was.

Regarding some of the criticisms about the music: as much as I love Danny Elfman's score with its easily recognizable and hummable theme song, the minimalist approach taken by Zimmer and Howard works here. It works with this kind of film. Is it catchy and hummable? Not really, though I do find that it kind of sticks in my brain. I'm certainly not going to buy the soundtrack to either Begins or Dark Knight, but nor do I see the need for so much hate for it.

 

[Canadave]

Well if this Batman has a theme it's not great enough for me to know it. Look at Indiana Jones, Superman, James Bond all have iconic, recognisable, grand themes.

The same can't really be said about this Batman mostly becuase I think the music and score is uninspired.

I like the USE of music in this movie, the action scenes aren't overblown with it, infact, the music is almost absent in the action scenes, but a great, grand, theme is needed for Batman.

Straining to think about I think I can scarely hear it my head but it's not something grand and awesome that you can hum/vocalize out loud like Superman's theme or Indy's.

I think part of the problem is that you want the score to be something that it's not.

Composers like Williams and Elfman both write film music in a Romantic vein, full of the Wagnerian motifs you're calling "themes."

Zimmer and Howard's scores for both of Nolan's Batman movies are far more minimalist.

There is a Batman "theme," and it's quite distinctive, when you hear it. But it's just two long notes in the background, like a hunting horn: naa-NAA. My knowledge of music theory is relatively limited, and my ear is not altogether reliable, but I believe the interval between the two is called a "perfect fourth". It's heavy, slow, and somber.

By comparison, Elfman's six-note Batman theme sounds busy and corny, especially when played quickly, on brass instruments: ba-ba-ba-BAAAT-man...ba-ba-ba-bat...bat-MAN!) It works in the context of Elfman's score, but it would have stood out like a sore thumb in Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

To me, Elfman's theme evokes Batman rushing around and beating up the bad guys--sock! pow! biff! bam! Whereas those two notes in Zimmer and Howard's theme evoke Batman perched on top of a building, looking down at Gotham City by night, contemplating his next move, or perhaps just brooding about how tortured and emo he is.

Indeed. In fact, Zimmer\Howard have written a score that's firmly in the best tradition of Philip Glass, one of the most renowned composers of the past 50 years or so. It works perfectly for TDK, if you ask me... it's moody and atmospheric, without ever dominating or overshadowing the events on screen, just complementing them perfectly.

One of the great things about it is how a very subtle change can affect the mood of the film. A great example is in Batman Begins, during Batman's first night: right at the end, we get the pan-around shot of Batman on top of the office tower and the score goes from dark and heavy to a single, crescendoing note.

 

[Terak Rall]

There is a Batman "theme," and it's quite distinctive, when you hear it. But it's just two long notes in the background, like a hunting horn: naa-NAA. My knowledge of music theory is relatively limited, and my ear is not altogether reliable, but I believe the interval between the two is called a "perfect fourth". It's heavy, slow, and somber.

As a musician I couldn't let this one slide. It's a minor third, not a perfect fourth.

I loved the movie...but walked out feeling just thoroughly depressed! Was surprised that the theater was only about 20% full for a Friday 11 AM screening...and this is a theater in suburban NY that I've seen PACKED.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Awesome; really, most of what I have to say has already been said.

They went to pretty ridiculous lengths to avoid naming/showing Barbara Gordon at all; really, I know Nolan dislikes the Batclan, but c'mon, give us something.

The ending, I have to say, I thought was kind of dumb; blame for the deaths isn't a zero sum game; given all the chaos going around, you could pin it on the Joker without breaking a sweat.

 

[Tom Servo]

I saw it today in IMAX, but I am gonna go again at a normal theater.

EXCEL-FUCKING-LENT!

Thats really all I can say. Now, I am not a Superhero/ Comic Book movie person, I never cared for any of the Spiderman or Superman movies. However, Batman Begins, and now this movie may be one of my favorite movie series. I mean this was not just a good comic book film, this was a goddam good film...period. We were discussing after the film that really, if you removed the Batman element, and just turned it into a cop drama, it would still be a damn good movie.

I must say though I laughed hysterically at the

And kudos to the script and the all the fine actors in it. There was not one cringe worth line or moment in the film

 

[T'Pers0n]

Bruce accepting responsibility for the murders would work for both Dent's reputation and Batman's. The problem relayed to Batman by Maroni was that no one was scared of him anymore because he wouldn't kill. Now that people think Batman has killed dirty cops and crooks, they would be afraid of him because he may kill again.

 

[Gryffindorian]

I saw the movie today, but unlike a lot fanboys out there, I wasn't really rabidly excited about seeing the movie. I'm not saying I didn't like it; I thought Chris Nolan did another fine job, with great performances by Christian Bale, the late Heath Ledger, and other fine high-profile actors like Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, and Michael Caine.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have lukewarm feelings about Nolan's take on Batman. I didn't see Batman Begins in the theater when it came out and only watched it on DVD (and I opted not to buy the DVD). It was good as many viewers and critics described. Nolan gives a much more serious, sometimes dark treatment of the DC hero than did his predecessors, Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher, whose films were fantastical and whimsical in execution, or as other people would put it, "camp." But call me silly and old-fashioned for actually having enjoyed watching Arnold Schwarzenegger and Uma Thurman as Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy, respectively.

The Dark Knight was a bit too long for my taste, and the plot wasn't really straightforward, but for a movie over two and half hours long, the pacing was good enough to keep you from looking at your watch. If you go with children to see the movie, you may hear them saying, "What's Batman doing in Hong Kong?" Of course, the simple answer would be, "He's trying to catch some bad guys." But you know there's more to that. You have to consider the whole mob/organized crime dynamics in Gotham City, how the Joker fits in and what his motivations really are, and how District Attorney Harvey Dent works to put away every criminal in the city. The interpersonal relationships and communications become complex as allegiances shift, motivations change, and deception is unraveled left and right.

This, like the first Nolan film, is a smart, high-caliber movie that makes you think and takes itself seriously ... way too seriously for a superhero movie. There is a lot to process, and sometimes you lose the sense of enjoyment.

I'm torn between an A- and a B+.

 

[Aragorn]

They went to pretty ridiculous lengths to avoid naming/showing Barbara Gordon at all; really, I know Nolan dislikes the Batclan, but c'mon, give us something.

Actually, his wife's name is Barbara. Meaning his daughter's name isn't.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Actually, his wife's name is Barbara. Meaning his daughter's name isn't.

No, his daughter isn't named at all; we just know his wife is named Barbara, which is the same as it was in the comics; Batgirl-Barbara is named after her.

 

[S. Gomez]

Just got home from the theater.

Honestly, what can I say? I have absolutely no idea how to describe it. Last night, I watched Batman Begins again to get myself pumped up. I mused afterwards on how good it felt to watch a movie where you absolutely wouldn't change a thing, where everything was simply too perfect for words. Let's just say... I was doing the same thing on the ride home tonight.

And I'm really, really glad Gordon isn't dead! I have to admit they got me with that one.

 

[CaptainCanada]

And I'm really, really glad Gordon isn't dead! I have to admit they got me with that one.

Yeah, I didn't see that one coming either; which was weird, looking back, because intellectually I knew Gordon couldn't possibly be dead, but the movies old me on it subjectively.