this is an iffy subject, but i think that endgame was the best finale in trek. i have heard the criticisms like people saying it was lazy, and featured the borg......again! i think however it was not lazy but genius, and its how a trek series should end, with all the bells and whistles going off
endgame, the best trek finale?
- Thread starter TheDoctor
- Start date
Oh it had all the bells and whistles all right it was just missing the more meaty instruments like woodwinds, strings and the percussion section. I truly feel that the conducter was following different sheet music than the fans were.
It’s an individual taste and I'm glad you enjoyed it, I do mean that, but for me it was a rush to close and I have watched it once and one time only.
It might have been better spread out over a couple episodes and a little more fleshing out of certain plotlines that came out of left field in my opinion. I also would have enjoyed seeing resolution to characters we watch every week, the end of this journey, the beginning of a new one.
Again, it was fine just didn't rock my world, still in denial that it was the ACTUAL finale.
It’s an individual taste and I'm glad you enjoyed it, I do mean that, but for me it was a rush to close and I have watched it once and one time only.
It might have been better spread out over a couple episodes and a little more fleshing out of certain plotlines that came out of left field in my opinion. I also would have enjoyed seeing resolution to characters we watch every week, the end of this journey, the beginning of a new one.
Again, it was fine just didn't rock my world, still in denial that it was the ACTUAL finale.
I LOVED both Endgame and Dark Frontier. 
And, indeed, any Voyager episode that featured the Borg!
And, indeed, any Voyager episode that featured the Borg!
, but it has grown on me. I like it now. 
For me, the biggest flaw in "Endgame" is that it didn't feel like a proper finale. All of the important, essential moments that should have been in the final episode were shoved aside in favor of the Borg, the future timeline, and Admiral Janeway - three things that should have been been used only as needed to service the story. There's no real homecoming for the crew - the way the episode just abruptly ends with Voyager returning to the AQ is just a huge disappointment. We don't get to see the emotional impact that the ship's return has on the crew. It isn't a huge shock considering how lackluster the series was overall, but I found "Endgame" to be particularly flat and emotionless.
I like the chance to see the crew after they have returned home. I hated that what we saw in that never happened. The use of time travel by that point was tired, and then, on top of it, to use the Borg as something important to getting them home seemed almost cliche.
In addition, Janeway's motivation didn't make much sense. You're going to follow the Admiral's demands because Chakotay dies after he marries Seven and SHE kicks it? Wait... after all the other crew members you no doubt lost, this is the one? Besides all that, if you were coming back to save the lives of your crew, why not go back to the very start with a way to get them home and destroy the array? That way none of it every happened? I mean, where's the line?
Where are the temporal time cops to keep you from fudging up the timeline? They've been there at least twice before to keep you from doing that.
AND... after waiting SEVEN years to see if they get home, we don't even get to see a brief reunion between the crew and their loved ones? WHAT?!
No, I didn't not care for this ending. They could have done so much more.
In addition, Janeway's motivation didn't make much sense. You're going to follow the Admiral's demands because Chakotay dies after he marries Seven and SHE kicks it? Wait... after all the other crew members you no doubt lost, this is the one? Besides all that, if you were coming back to save the lives of your crew, why not go back to the very start with a way to get them home and destroy the array? That way none of it every happened? I mean, where's the line?
Where are the temporal time cops to keep you from fudging up the timeline? They've been there at least twice before to keep you from doing that.
AND... after waiting SEVEN years to see if they get home, we don't even get to see a brief reunion between the crew and their loved ones? WHAT?!
No, I didn't not care for this ending. They could have done so much more.
I think "Endgame" works as a 4 part episode... I enjoyed the future... Maybe a little more of that
Then a little more of the "present" time line in the Delta Quadrant...
And then for the final episode, the arrival of Voyager in dock. See Admiral Paris greet Captain Janeway, his son, daughter in law and little granddaughter. I would like to have seen something about Chakotay offered to keep his rank and assigned to another ship, but how he is turning it down to be with 7of9... the two of them are going to live on a planet with other Maquis survivors. We hear how the maquis are all being offered Ensign billets within starfleet... Oh, so much to give the crew a proper finale!
Maybe, we can even see Harry wearing a red uniform with a Lt rank! He's just been promoted (I know, I need to stop using drugs!) and named XO aboard an old Constellation class ship (nod to TNG)
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It was silly the way Admiral Janeway didn't turn up until AFTER Voyager had encountered the nebula and already attracted the Borg's attention.
It would have been much more sensible to turn up a few days BEFORE Voyager finds the nebula, so they can charge right on through!
I mean, seriously.
It would have been much more sensible to turn up a few days BEFORE Voyager finds the nebula, so they can charge right on through!
I mean, seriously.
I like Endgame. It's a cool episode.
The Borg were cool, future Janeway was neat, armored Voyager was awesome....
We didn't need to see the crew reunite with all their loved ones from the AQ. Why? We very rarely heard anything about them anyway.
I'd have preferred if Voyager never made it back to the AQ. That would have taken balls. The show should have ended with Voyager being a few years closer to home and Janeway telling Tom to set a course for home. Then we see Voyager warping away.
THE END?
The Borg were cool, future Janeway was neat, armored Voyager was awesome....
We didn't need to see the crew reunite with all their loved ones from the AQ. Why? We very rarely heard anything about them anyway.
I'd have preferred if Voyager never made it back to the AQ. That would have taken balls. The show should have ended with Voyager being a few years closer to home and Janeway telling Tom to set a course for home. Then we see Voyager warping away.
THE END?
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Yes I agree..I hadn't watched the last year or so of the show but came back, as I am sure many did, to see it finally get home. But with no closure with the crew and their families back at home it kind of had the feeling of a rush job..
DS9's is better because of the final episodes all funneling into the finale. In fact, I would argue DS9's finale is the best of the bunch..ALL GOOD THINGS next and then Endgame..though, to be sure, ENDGAME is better than the last episode of Galactica 1980.
IMO..
Rob
Scorpio
Well, for me I am torn on this debate... but to play devils advocate, DS9 was set up to be a FINALE for DS9. There were no DS9 movies planned, and there never will be. AGT had a different job, it was to be the final episode of the series, while setting up the transition to the big screen...
Akiraprise said that endgame should have ended with Janeway telling Tom to continue the course for home... not quite there yet... Well, that's how TNG ended. The big difference is that TNG was about "exploring strange new worlds" and the such... Voyager was about getting home!
Agreed.
I didn't need to see the crew reunited with their families since after all it was about the journey. All the same I believe "Endgame" was a travesty for the following reasons:
1) Janeway's legacy: There were two two-parters during Voyager's run that featured the main villain trying to alter time for personal gain ("Future's End" and "Year of Hell") yet when Admiral Janeway wants to do the same thing it's okay? What?
2) Time travel: Already done to death in this series: "Time and Again", "Before and After", "Timeless", "Future's End", "Year of Hell", "Relativity" et al). Couldn't we have the crew get home using their own devices? Negotiating with an alien race to use a wormhole, creating new technology, whatever.
3) The borg - AGAIN. I'm not even going to bother listing the borg episodes. It's amazing the crew still managed to stay awake on the bridge when spotting cubes, spheres or borg trapezoids...
4) C/7 - Putting aside the sheer ickiness of it where the hell did that come from!?
1) Janeway's legacy: There were two two-parters during Voyager's run that featured the main villain trying to alter time for personal gain ("Future's End" and "Year of Hell") yet when Admiral Janeway wants to do the same thing it's okay? What?
2) Time travel: Already done to death in this series: "Time and Again", "Before and After", "Timeless", "Future's End", "Year of Hell", "Relativity" et al). Couldn't we have the crew get home using their own devices? Negotiating with an alien race to use a wormhole, creating new technology, whatever.
3) The borg - AGAIN. I'm not even going to bother listing the borg episodes. It's amazing the crew still managed to stay awake on the bridge when spotting cubes, spheres or borg trapezoids...
4) C/7 - Putting aside the sheer ickiness of it where the hell did that come from!?
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Endgame is NOT the best Trek finale. Its light years better than These Are The Voyages... but its leaps and bounds nowhere near as good as All Good Things...
I am the king of stupid questions, but this is in a league of it's own.
Kimc summed up the sensible points well.
Kimc summed up the sensible points well.
