I wouldn't mind it being The Seventh Doctor or The Eighth, but I can see the Time Crash mold getting a bit repetitive for folks and not being able to get a full-fledged multi-Doctor story.
Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)
- Thread starter Servo
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I doubt Chris will be part of Who for a long time yet.
I like many was hoping he would turn up for RTDs swan-song but that was not the case.
I was hoping for a resolve of the time war where we see 9's 'Born in battle and rage and fire' stuff, making him vengeful, thus, how we saw him in Rose and early season 1, until he changed in season 2 and 3 and 4.
I've been thinking about this episode a lot today and the more I think about it, the more I wish it had a happier ended. Yeah, I'm a sucker for that kind of thing, but after spending a season with Cathrine Tate great as Donna, it is just really hard to see her regress back to Runaway Bride levels. Hopefully, Donna's life does improve and the Mother becomes much better but it was just sad to see it end that way. I still feel the way I did yesterday concerning Rose and still think Sarah Jane, Jack, Mickey, and Martha got the best send offs of the show.
Even if "Partners in Crime" wasn't from a future POV, what about "Turn Left"? If that's the real Rose, then she knows things that Rose shouldn't until after "Journey's End" (Donna's last name, "he thought you were brilliant", "I'm sorry").RTD says in Doctor Who Magazine 395 that Rose's appearance there wasn't meant to be foreshadowing in that way. Rose's visit wasn't in Donna's future. She wasn't there to warn Donna about anything. She was there, looking for the Doctor. He does say that he thought it was interesting that fans assumed online that we'd come back to that scene from Rose's supposedly future POV, even though that belief was completely without foundation.
Of course, if that's actually Bad Wolf and not Rose (trying to set things up for Rose herself, before the unforeseeable voidship screws things up?), then that's not so much a problem.
yeah I know.
Why would you be disappointed that someone didn't die? You'd hope that all of the companions lived; they're The Doctor's friends after all.
Then I bet you won't like the last episode of The War Games. Epic serial, but ends on a major downer for all three of the characters.
What, memory wiping wasn't big enough for you? I think that's a fate worse than death.
Yeah, I noticed, too (he's also in this week's episode). It's possible...
Totally, the person we know as Donna is dead. Watching her at the end gossiping on the phone was horribly sad; she became this absolutely brilliant character (and that's even before the, what did they call it, metacrisis?) and all of that was taken away and will never be again. And the Doctor has to leave her behind knowing he can never see her again. That's far worse then if she had simply died. It really is "everlasting death"...
I missed that piece of prophecy the first time around, but it definitely caught my attention the second time around. Either your dead or alive, so normally "everlasting death" wouldn't mean anything, but what happened to Donna was everlasting death.
Well they were about to achieve ultimate strategic victory over the entire Multiverse through their titanic Reality Bomb, something that even Q couldn't do in the context of his setting, but the individual Daleks seemed noticebly weaker than other post-Time War members of their race like Van Statten's Dalek and the Cult of Skaro (they didn't even cause the companions to combust on hand contact when they were grappled with in the Vault).
Their brief taking over of Earth seemed clumsy, over staffed and underpowered, calling for them to swarm over UNIT targets with a reduced sense of aloof invincibility shown before (I bet a Time War era scout ship with just a infantry section of Daleks onboard would've done the same work in a quater of the time).
Or the Toclafane when the Master returns? Loyal henchballs on tap when ever he opens a portal? Maybe see much more of the mysterious Utopia.
I think this pretty much sums it up. I'd just like to add that this episode is like the "Sombreroprise" of Doctor Who - a clusterfuck of stuff thrown together "just because we can."
While I quite like the Sombreroprise, I didn't like Journey's End. Wilf & DoctorDonna are probably the only things saving it from getting a "Poor" vote. Just how many doomsday devices are laying around Earth? Here, let's just throw a necklace to SJS that can blow up the station, give UNIT a plethora of nukes that will blow up the Earth, and while we're at it, why not put the controls for all the Daleks right next to where the TARDIS materializes so we can flip a switch and make them all go wacky. That was STUPID. DoctorDonna just has to flip a switch and the Daleks start spinning in circles? The Daleks, not to mention Davros, are smarter than that - why the hell would there be a switch that would technobabble them into spinning around like idiots? I'm glad RTD is going away. He might have wonderful ideas, but his ideas are executed like a poorly-written story on fanfiction.net!
Good: Donna; Wilf; SJS/Davros reunion; Davros's "you use them as your weapons" speech; German Daleks
Bad: clusterfuck of guest appearances - K9 was the final straw. I love him as much as anyone, but couldn't you just have Mr. Smith do it? Did you really need to come up with the "I need the TARDIS base code" line so you could come up with a solution out of thin air in the next two seconds JUST to get K9 involved? Seriously, I was expecting goddamn J. Edgar Hoover to carry in the kitchen sink and hook it up to Mr. Smith so they could save the day with Harriet Jones's ghost and QEII both doing the can-can to celebrate afterwards; also, the abundance of doomsday devices that I already elaborated on and the copious nods to fans - they're nice, but when you chuck a bunch of them in, they get old really fast. We already surmised about Gwen's ancestors, we don't need a montage of previous episodes - it feels wrong without classic series stuff in it. Why would the Doctor care about some one-off character and not Adric, Sara Kingdom, Katarina, or any of the other people he's met that died?
Ugly: Rose/TenHuman; towing the Earth; regeneration cop-out making us end up with 2 Tennants (I liked DoctorDonna though). Why not have Ten regenerate to an unconscious Eleven, and then have the hand regenerate into TenHuman/DoctorDonna and replace all of Ten's stuff with TenHuman?
It's too bad I didn't read the thread further before posting - this is exactly what my head's tried to tell my fingers to type! I agree with 100% of your post.
Actions should have consequences; the creation of a second Doctor, extermination of the Daleks... those should have had a price. But while Donna paid the price for the creation of the second Doctor, this time, the Daleks were wiped out for free. They've had successively lower price tags each time: the burning of Gallifrey, the death of Rose (or would've, had Nine not sacrificed himself instead), the sealing of the walls between universes.
But this time, the alt-Doctor killed the Daleks for free.
Not really, though. The woman who virtually saved the whole of creation was reduced to a tabloid-loving texting loudmouth, much as she was before she met The Doctor. A lot of humans on Earth (and possibly the other 26 planets) were almost certainly killed as well. The Doctor had a darker version of himself created that needed to be shoved off into a parallel universe, Harriet Jones died, the TARDIS was almost destroyed...
People certainly paid the price. The repercussions were there.
Yeah, I knew that. I'm looking forward to it, especially if the rumors are true thatThe Cybermen seen in that episode are actually the Mondas Cybermen. Just a rumor, mind you, but I still have my fingers crossed.The Cybermen feature seem to have the Cybus Industries logo on them
Indeed, that was the very first thing I looked for and, alas, it looks like the Cybus Industries logo on their chest.
The special is actually called "Ghosts In The Machines", and features
Two warring Cybermen from two different realities against one another There are the familiar Cybermen face plate (resembling a serpent), but dressed in wraith-like garments
Two warring Cybermen from two different realities against one another There are the familiar Cybermen face plate (resembling a serpent), but dressed in wraith-like garments
The doctor's going to need a mop to clean up all the Alt universe stuff that bleeded through. This is probably going to bigger than the Cardiff Rift