Archer and TOS

[Timo]

Oh, let's settle at saying that I disagree with everything you said above, and disregard it as baseless reassertion of baseless, subjective opinions.

Timo saloniemi

 

[Ovation]

Isn't that "I'm everyone" routine growing old already?

Everything you posted above was just a personal, subjective opinion, from the generalizations down to the technological minutiae (and everybody knows it).

No, it isn't, and everyone knows it.

Actually, the bulk of it was. Sorry.

Every single bit of material you quoted could be interpreted the exact opposite way (and that's a fact because it is).

No, it can't. Willfully fantasizing things completely different from what's on screen, does not interpretation make.



I'm hardly interpreting anything at all, that's the point, and I'm certainly not fantasizing things to be contrary to what's on screen. Also, anything that brings that pile of junk that is Enterprise into continuity is the opposite of happy harmony. Happy harmony would be everyone finally disavowing the pile of junk.

Hardly an OBJECTIVE statement, considering that some people have a different OPINION than yours regarding "the pile of junk". So it looks like "happy harmony" is simply out of the question.


As for the contradictory tones in various episodes of TOS, they are quite clearly there to see. Space Seed suggests two centuries separate TOS from "the present". The Squire of Gothos suggests nine centuries. Warp speeds are all over the place. Sarpeidon is so far from Vulcan it would take twenty lifetimes or so to traverse the distance. (and these are just some of the more glaring inconsistencies). The kinds of tonal differences Timo describes (and that you simply dismiss as "not there") are glaring if you take the time to analyze the episodes. I think such over-analysis is counterproductive (it's meant to entertain, not provide a philosophical framework for life) but once started, the analysis easily points to the differences Timo describes. Not at all surprising as such tonal differences existed in all sorts of episodic programmes of the 1960s--no one anticipated syndication, eternal re-runs, DVD box sets and so on. It wasn't something planned but it's there.

 

[3D Master]

Hardly an OBJECTIVE statement, considering that some people have a different OPINION than yours regarding "the pile of junk". So it looks like "happy harmony" is simply out of the question.

Sure there are some people who have different opinion: a tiny insignificant amount. For even a large majority of those who claim to like Enterprise, don't like Enterprise at all. They like one or two characters (sometimes together), but otherwise are going on about how bad episodes and the acting was right along everybody else. So they don't actually like Enterprise. Why they're so desperate to go on as if they like Enterprise just for those characters is beyond me. If they like the characters so much, they can just as easily imagine them to exist someplace and maybe even some when else, just like they are imagining Enterprise not violating continuity.

As for the contradictory tones in various episodes of TOS, they are quite clearly there to see. Space Seed suggests two centuries separate TOS from "the present". The Squire of Gothos suggests nine centuries.

Ah, so your ACTUALLY mentioning one of the very few ACTUAL contradictions now are. Balance of Terror does not The Squire of Gothos make. But, as I said, those are but few details that can be glossed over, especially if you understand how and why the time differences occurred.

Warp speeds are all over the place. Sarpeidon is so far from Vulcan it would take twenty lifetimes or so to traverse the distance. (and these are just some of the more glaring inconsistencies).

Again, detail work.

The kinds of tonal differences Timo describes (and that you simply dismiss as "not there") are glaring if you take the time to analyze the episodes.

I have yet to see any tonal differences in any of the examples you've given. Quite frankly I can think of only one tonal difference in all of TOS, and that's the difference between the way they treated the Vulcan matriarch and most females, and the way women were talked about in Turnabout Intruder. Other than that, I haven't seen any.

I think such over-analysis is counterproductive (it's meant to entertain, not provide a philosophical framework for life) but once started, the analysis easily points to the differences Timo describes. Not at all surprising as such tonal differences existed in all sorts of episodic programmes of the 1960s--no one anticipated syndication, eternal re-runs, DVD box sets and so on. It wasn't something planned but it's there.

With Enterprise it was, and yet it broke continuity all over the place.

 

[cooleddie74]

Oh, let's settle at saying that I disagree with everything you said above, and disregard it as baseless reassertion of baseless, subjective opinions.

Timo saloniemi

Then what's the point of the existence of our BBS, then?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Oh, let's settle at saying that I disagree with everything you said above, and disregard it as baseless reassertion of baseless, subjective opinions.

Timo saloniemi

Then what's the point of the existence of our BBS, then?

Caption threads and Helen Noel!

 

[Ronald Held]

It always comes back to Helen Noel?

 

[M'Sharak]

It always comes back to Helen Noel?

Always. Just ask Bonz.

 

[Warped9]

Why would Kirk or anyone else mention Archer unless the situation called for it? How often do you drop George Washington into your conversations?

All the time. And I'm Canadian.

And I'm an American and rarely have unless I'm discussing George Washington or events he was envolved in. When I'm talking about cars, football, space travel or vampires its hard to work in a good Washington namedrop without getting stares

"All the time" means what exactly: Every few hours? Once a day? Once a week? Once a year?

I have an acquaintance who always manages to turn ANY discussion (even the weather) into bashing America and/or capitalism within five minutes without fail. I was actually thinking of him when I made my facetious remark.

 

[Nerys Myk]

All the time. And I'm Canadian.

And I'm an American and rarely have unless I'm discussing George Washington or events he was envolved in. When I'm talking about cars, football, space travel or vampires its hard to work in a good Washington namedrop without getting stares

"All the time" means what exactly: Every few hours? Once a day? Once a week? Once a year?

I have an acquaintance who always manages to turn ANY discussion (even the weather) into bashing America and/or capitalism within five minutes without fail. I was actually thinking of him when I made my facetious remark.

Looks today will be a good one for him.

 

[Warped9]

^^ He throws words like "Nazi" and "facist" and "coporate whore" around a little too quickly. While I can agree with many of his points he just goes off the deep end too easily. He's so focused on what he thinks the world should be that he can't seem to cope with the one we actually live in.

 

[number6]

While I can agree with many of his points he just goes off the deep end too easily. He's so focused on what he thinks the world should be that he can't seem to cope with the one we actually live in.

 

[cooleddie74]

Oh, let's settle at saying that I disagree with everything you said above, and disregard it as baseless reassertion of baseless, subjective opinions.

Timo saloniemi

Then what's the point of the existence of our BBS, then?

Caption threads and Helen Noel!

Don't forget Squiggyfm's "Godwins" over in the TNZ.

 

[Musicmantim420]

Why would he? On what occasion did Kirk's failure to mention Archer by name create an unresolvable continuity problem?

Bear in mind that Kirk never mentioned Christopher Pike until the Enterprise was summoned to the starbase where he was recuperating. (And then they never mentioned him again.) And Kirk never mentioned Robert April until he showed up in TAS. Yet these were his two direct predecessors, who had previously captained his own ship.


It only detracts from it in the sense that it exposes the myth of Spock as the "first Vulcan in Starfleet" for what it is: Made-up fanboy nonsense, unsupported by any on-screen evidence (and, arguably, directly contradicted by "The Immunity Syndrome").

I find that my biggest problem with it never being mentioned, period, is there was a horrific attack carried out against Earth. Never once is this attack mentioned, or any of the events that take place afterwards, like the founding of the federation. I think it may be an alternate time line created by the events of First Contact.

 

[johnnybear]

An alternative timeline created by the temporal battles taking place in the future that we never ever got to see or find out about! The guy in the transporter energies looked to be a Romulan but that was as close to it that we got!
JB

 

[1001001]

I find that my biggest problem with it never being mentioned, period, is there was a horrific attack carried out against Earth. Never once is this attack mentioned, or any of the events that take place afterwards, like the founding of the federation. I think it may be an alternate time line created by the events of First Contact.

First, welcome to the board.

Second, please don't resurrect long dead threads. This one hasn't has a reply in 8 years, and the OP hasn't posted here in 5 years. Feel free to start a new one if you're interested.

Thanks!



"Hailing Frequencies Closed"