good point about the comparison to the Doctors hand, that didn't cross my mind, I think the biggest question is, next time will she regenerate into a whole new actress at some point.
Doctor Who – 4x06 – The Doctor’s Daughter (Grade/Discuss)
- Thread starter Servo
- Start date
Cobb was a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of an original team member and his DNA was wonky.
Which is why they cloned the Doctor when they first saw him, they wanted fresh DNA as their's was a bit stagnant.
Cobb's accent really annoyed me...
RE: HATH 'Talking' on 'Confidential'
that's probably to help Freema deliver her lines, like how in SW, Peter Mayhew would actually say Chewie's lines for Harrison, Mark, etc to react to. like 'The old man's crazy!' Han: 'Boy, you said it Chewie' and in post, the dub in all the rarr, fnar, grrr business...
RE Jenny's eyeliner.
what about the fact they're copied with CLOTHES and the Hath had their little jug o' juice?
RE Jenny spin-off
Not with Georgia, she's doing Spooks: Code 9 the spin-off from Spooks (aka MI5)...
RE: HATH 'Talking' on 'Confidential'
that's probably to help Freema deliver her lines, like how in SW, Peter Mayhew would actually say Chewie's lines for Harrison, Mark, etc to react to. like 'The old man's crazy!' Han: 'Boy, you said it Chewie' and in post, the dub in all the rarr, fnar, grrr business...
RE Jenny's eyeliner.
what about the fact they're copied with CLOTHES and the Hath had their little jug o' juice?
RE Jenny spin-off
Not with Georgia, she's doing Spooks: Code 9 the spin-off from Spooks (aka MI5)...
The Five Doctors/Sarah thing is easy to explain - she sees 'Hartnell', Troughton and Davison at the end along with Pertwee, but a) No-one actually tells her they're all the Doctor (though she'd probably guess from the situation - though check out her one brief exchange with Davison, where she really doesn't seem to have worked out who he is), and b) she has no way of knowing whether Davison is after Tom, or before Pertwee.
I'm not saying it'll happen, or even is likely, but why not? Even if Spooks: Code 9 is a success, it's only a 6 episode series.
only 6? I thought it would be more than that, at least 8?
Fantastic! This very well done in all aspects, so no reservations giving it the highest grade! Visually, it felt like we were on a dark dank world. The main characters were compelling. Some of the human guest stars weren't fleshed out as much as they could've been but Jenny was great. The dialog was sharp and witty throughout. The story itself was top rate! Interesting with various twists and turns. There was a lot to like in this one!
I wish this had been a two-parter rather than the Sontaran story. There was much more meat to this story that could've used fleshing out. The Sontaran story was more fluffy and making it a two-parter just made it more airy.
I was glad to see that Jenny survived at the end! Dang, she's hot too!
Mr Awe
I wish this had been a two-parter rather than the Sontaran story. There was much more meat to this story that could've used fleshing out. The Sontaran story was more fluffy and making it a two-parter just made it more airy.
I was glad to see that Jenny survived at the end! Dang, she's hot too!
Mr Awe
Hmm, I was sure I'd read 6, but I can't seem to find the article I read it in.
Wikipedia says 6 on the Kudos page. But that's not where I first read it.
Last edited:
Actually, the biggest problem with this episode was that it should've been a two-parter. There wasn't enough time to develop the material.
So, there was plenty of "stuff." In fact, so much stuff that it came off as rushed to squeeze it in just one episode.
Mr Awe
But in the case of the first Doctor... Really, how many hundreds of years did he spend in that body growing from infancy to the broke down old man we met in comparison to whatever he was in his youth that there could have been another 10 pictures to descibe the different highs and lows in the appearance of just that first regeneration... Unless some how he was born in the guise of an old man? ...Which of course contradicts Planet of the spiders and Sound of the Drums.
The producers would fully have to violate their own continuity to pull off the current bloke being 13... So it's really a question of integrity more than continuity which amounts to the same thing.
I like clutching at straws.
Okay, I confess. I'm easy. Fell in love with Jenny at arond the halfway point. Which was enough to boost the episode to an Above Average. Been a strange season so far, as we're a bit overdue for a clunker.
* Huzzah! Another alien planet tale! And a 'failed colony' story to boot. Those always were the classic series bread and butter.
* I got a bit of perverse amusement when the episode pretty much obliterated dozens of threads speculating on the Doctors ancestry over on OG. No doubt the Admins are busy picking through the smoking rubble of their servers even as I type.
* Agreed that it could've made a two-parter with a bit of expanding. Another episode that felt very old-school. With all the wierd science involved, I think JNT would have loved this story.
* I'm guessing the only reason Freema was along was because they needed someone to show that the Hath weren't evil monsters. And they couldn't spare Dona as they needed her there to goad the Doctor into forming a relationship with Jenny. As for the communications, I just figured they were one-way telepaths, and Martha just never stopped long enough to realize it.
* Not sure what I think about bringing Jenny back. Maybe just long enough for her to meet the Doctor again, show that she's matured a bit, give her a companion of her own, then send her on her merry way. Heck ,we never saw Scotty again in the TNG universe, nor Romana, and they both seemed to do okay at the hands of the fans.
* Yes, we already know the Doctor was a father once. I just keep waiting for him to mention Susan, and put an end to the speculation there once and for all. All I can figure is that its connected to the whole 'lying about his age' thing. As in "I'm only 900. I'm too young to be a granfather!".
* Huzzah! Another alien planet tale! And a 'failed colony' story to boot. Those always were the classic series bread and butter.
* I got a bit of perverse amusement when the episode pretty much obliterated dozens of threads speculating on the Doctors ancestry over on OG. No doubt the Admins are busy picking through the smoking rubble of their servers even as I type.
* Agreed that it could've made a two-parter with a bit of expanding. Another episode that felt very old-school. With all the wierd science involved, I think JNT would have loved this story.
* I'm guessing the only reason Freema was along was because they needed someone to show that the Hath weren't evil monsters. And they couldn't spare Dona as they needed her there to goad the Doctor into forming a relationship with Jenny. As for the communications, I just figured they were one-way telepaths, and Martha just never stopped long enough to realize it.
* Not sure what I think about bringing Jenny back. Maybe just long enough for her to meet the Doctor again, show that she's matured a bit, give her a companion of her own, then send her on her merry way. Heck ,we never saw Scotty again in the TNG universe, nor Romana, and they both seemed to do okay at the hands of the fans.
* Yes, we already know the Doctor was a father once. I just keep waiting for him to mention Susan, and put an end to the speculation there once and for all. All I can figure is that its connected to the whole 'lying about his age' thing. As in "I'm only 900. I'm too young to be a granfather!".
Last edited:
An interesting episode. Not so much for the titular story thread, which hits all the notes you'd expect it to, but for other elements that come into play.
Martha's appearance finally feels more than gratuitous, as it becomes clear her return is about resolving her unfinished arc. "Last of the Time Lords" ends with her saying, "You'll see me again," and doesn't quite close out her attraction to the TARDIS lifestyle- she's leaving because she needs to get away from her attraction to the Doctor, not because she's tired of seeing the universe. We get a reminder of that this week, as she pops out of the TARDIS and comments on how much she loves that moment of arrival. And from then on, Martha's experience is a long, dirty slog, devoid of fun or wonder.
The Hath are mysterious and inscrutable not just because there's no time to do more with them, but because that makes it so much harder for Martha to deal with them. The Doctor gets humans who explain the backstory to him; Martha gets fish-like aliens who bubble ominously at her. The Doctor gets to run through a few corridors and turn off some lasers; Martha gets to walk through storms and radiation, fall in a bog, and have the only friend she's made drown horribly in saving her. It's no surprise that after all this Martha is ready to turn her back on the TARDIS for good.
The final conversation between Donna and Martha is important. It ties in to previous foreshadowings of a dark future of which Donna is blissfully unaware, namely Rose's "this is my sad face" appearance at the end of "Partners in Crime." Like Rose (and unlike Martha, who was always planning to finish school and resume her life), Donna plans to be with the Doctor forever; Martha knows that this can't last but doesn't push Donna about it. Instead, she simply leaves. This time there's no "you'll see me again," even though we will; there was a similar moment in the original script, but the podcast reveals it was cut precisely because it undermines the finality of Martha's departure.
Martha's appearance finally feels more than gratuitous, as it becomes clear her return is about resolving her unfinished arc. "Last of the Time Lords" ends with her saying, "You'll see me again," and doesn't quite close out her attraction to the TARDIS lifestyle- she's leaving because she needs to get away from her attraction to the Doctor, not because she's tired of seeing the universe. We get a reminder of that this week, as she pops out of the TARDIS and comments on how much she loves that moment of arrival. And from then on, Martha's experience is a long, dirty slog, devoid of fun or wonder.
The Hath are mysterious and inscrutable not just because there's no time to do more with them, but because that makes it so much harder for Martha to deal with them. The Doctor gets humans who explain the backstory to him; Martha gets fish-like aliens who bubble ominously at her. The Doctor gets to run through a few corridors and turn off some lasers; Martha gets to walk through storms and radiation, fall in a bog, and have the only friend she's made drown horribly in saving her. It's no surprise that after all this Martha is ready to turn her back on the TARDIS for good.
The final conversation between Donna and Martha is important. It ties in to previous foreshadowings of a dark future of which Donna is blissfully unaware, namely Rose's "this is my sad face" appearance at the end of "Partners in Crime." Like Rose (and unlike Martha, who was always planning to finish school and resume her life), Donna plans to be with the Doctor forever; Martha knows that this can't last but doesn't push Donna about it. Instead, she simply leaves. This time there's no "you'll see me again," even though we will; there was a similar moment in the original script, but the podcast reveals it was cut precisely because it undermines the finality of Martha's departure.
ok, ill trust you, at least to I read otherwise.
I feel cheated with a title like that. Revealing her true nature in the first seconds of the episode was almost enough for me to dismiss the rest of the story
I suppose not knowing anything about the Doctor's past is part of the format now. We didn't even get names for his real family, not even Susan was namechecked. Overall, it didn't add much to the Doctor Who myth. Just a regular episode, with a somewhat more significant guest star.
I totally agree. I completely thought it was gonna be exactly as RTD suggested it would be, and not some terrible technobabble-ridden excuse to bring the offspring of a former Doctor onto the show.
My only hope is this is a huge foreshadowing of things to come, such as Jenny helping restore at least some level of the Time Lords, or maybe a chance to see Susan in a later episode (I still don't think she's dead). I know RTD wants to avoid huge fanwank-type storylines but the introduction of Jenny and reminders about the Doctor's past may point to an imminent reveal...
(All complete speculation by the way, if I got it right it's unintentional)
And my brain. 
Seriously, I don't like that. Jenny just should have been Susan's mum (or aunt) or a child from Romana. What a waste.
Seriously, I don't like that. Jenny just should have been Susan's mum (or aunt) or a child from Romana. What a waste.
And my brain.
Seriously, I don't like that. Jenny just should have been Susan's mum (or aunt) or a child from Romana. What a waste.
Well its clear why she was not. The Doctor in the new series has lost everything - No family, no friends, no people, no world - all wiped out of time and space by the Time War.
To magically find his family, or even a bit of it again would cheapen that - and the episode clearly indicates that Susan's mother, Susan herself and everyone else he loved as a family is dead.
With Susan, I'm willing to agree on, but I like to think that Romana is still in E-Space (or again, if you follow the audios) with the possibility of her being pregnant when she left The Doctor in Warrior's Gate.