Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS**
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Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
First of all thanks for the summary.
I'm really glad we got what we did.. compared to the original notes i really believe that it turned out for the best.
As it stands the original plot was just so standard.. huge fighting for the sake of fighting etc. Granted.. "our" B5 had its share of big battles too but somehow they were just a part for a bigger picture and not the main point.
That Sheridan had to invade Earth itself to dispose of Santiago was awesome and after the Shadow War conclusion a good continuation without delay of an interesting storyline.
Another point.. consider 5 years worth of Michael O'Hare acting..
First of all thanks for the summary.
I'm really glad we got what we did.. compared to the original notes i really believe that it turned out for the best.
As it stands the original plot was just so standard.. huge fighting for the sake of fighting etc. Granted.. "our" B5 had its share of big battles too but somehow they were just a part for a bigger picture and not the main point.
That Sheridan had to invade Earth itself to dispose of Santiago was awesome and after the Shadow War conclusion a good continuation without delay of an interesting storyline.
Another point.. consider 5 years worth of Michael O'Hare acting..
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
Exactly. The big moments, the little moments, the life that was lived. Hella lot happens between being born and dying.
Babylon 5 was a particularly sumptious sandwich built between those pieces of bread.
Exactly. The big moments, the little moments, the life that was lived. Hella lot happens between being born and dying.
Babylon 5 was a particularly sumptious sandwich built between those pieces of bread.
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
I think you just created a new story arc right there.
I think you just created a new story arc right there.
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
I do like what we got compare to just this synopsis of the outline but remember that this is just an outline after all. It's not to say that the original wouldn't have the possibility of being just as good as the story developed.
Oh..... I don't think he was that bad. I actually liked O'Hare... But I liked Boxleitner as well and i think he was a really good choice.Another point.. consider 5 years worth of Michael O'Hare acting..
I do like what we got compare to just this synopsis of the outline but remember that this is just an outline after all. It's not to say that the original wouldn't have the possibility of being just as good as the story developed.
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
Btw, here's some interesting stuff that JMS wrote about the story arc back in 1993, I think *before* he wrote out the 7 page outline:
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/universe/five-year-overview.html
Also, perhaps the biggest "wtf?" to come out of this is the fact that JMS apparently intended to shunt so many of the critical story elements into a spinoff series. What's up with that? Well, I have some irresponsible speculation on that point (what is the internet for, if not irresponsible speculation?):
For a long time, JMS has said that he originally had ideas for two different series in his head: one about a group of people living on an insignificant space station, which isn't very important to the main goings on of the galaxy, and one that was a big space opera epic. The "eureka" moment came when he decided that these two would be the same story. That the show should be about the people on that space station, and they would witness this epic taking place from their vantage point. But we, the viewer, would not be taken directly to the main action going on in the rest of the universe. We'd just see how it was affecting the lives of the people on the space station. That was the idea for Babylon 5.
Script Book 15 also includes the "treatment" for the series that JMS used to try to sell it to various networks. Interestingly, one of the selling points was that the show would be so cheap to produce, since all the action would take place on Babylon 5 or on some nearby starship. You would never go to other worlds, other than an occasional trip to Epsilon 3. And in fact, that's pretty much how things worked in Season 1 of the series, before things really started to branch out into the rest of the galaxy.
I think it's possible that the Babylon Prime idea was there because, at that point anyway, JMS simply didn't believe that it would be possible to visualize everything he wanted to do with his story on the kind of budget he would have. So you put the more "expensive" part of the story into a sequel series, which probably won't ever happen, but maybe B5 will be a big hit, in which case, you can get a spinoff with a bigger budget. At some point, I guess, he would have realized that yes, he really could afford to do all the stuff he wanted on B5's budget, so he might as well fold those B Prime story ideas into Babylon 5.
Again, no idea if that's the explanation, but I think it's a possibility.
Oh, and one other thing. For anyone who's read what JMS said about the future direction of Crusade....do you notice some similarity between the planned direction for Crusade, and the plot of Babylon Prime?
Btw, here's some interesting stuff that JMS wrote about the story arc back in 1993, I think *before* he wrote out the 7 page outline:
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/universe/five-year-overview.html
Also, perhaps the biggest "wtf?" to come out of this is the fact that JMS apparently intended to shunt so many of the critical story elements into a spinoff series. What's up with that? Well, I have some irresponsible speculation on that point (what is the internet for, if not irresponsible speculation?):
For a long time, JMS has said that he originally had ideas for two different series in his head: one about a group of people living on an insignificant space station, which isn't very important to the main goings on of the galaxy, and one that was a big space opera epic. The "eureka" moment came when he decided that these two would be the same story. That the show should be about the people on that space station, and they would witness this epic taking place from their vantage point. But we, the viewer, would not be taken directly to the main action going on in the rest of the universe. We'd just see how it was affecting the lives of the people on the space station. That was the idea for Babylon 5.
Script Book 15 also includes the "treatment" for the series that JMS used to try to sell it to various networks. Interestingly, one of the selling points was that the show would be so cheap to produce, since all the action would take place on Babylon 5 or on some nearby starship. You would never go to other worlds, other than an occasional trip to Epsilon 3. And in fact, that's pretty much how things worked in Season 1 of the series, before things really started to branch out into the rest of the galaxy.
I think it's possible that the Babylon Prime idea was there because, at that point anyway, JMS simply didn't believe that it would be possible to visualize everything he wanted to do with his story on the kind of budget he would have. So you put the more "expensive" part of the story into a sequel series, which probably won't ever happen, but maybe B5 will be a big hit, in which case, you can get a spinoff with a bigger budget. At some point, I guess, he would have realized that yes, he really could afford to do all the stuff he wanted on B5's budget, so he might as well fold those B Prime story ideas into Babylon 5.
Again, no idea if that's the explanation, but I think it's a possibility.
Oh, and one other thing. For anyone who's read what JMS said about the future direction of Crusade....do you notice some similarity between the planned direction for Crusade, and the plot of Babylon Prime?
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
^Interesting deduction, and something that I've been thinking about as well since reading your synopsis of the treatment (thanks again). Does JMS say anything about the treatment in Vol. 15?
^Interesting deduction, and something that I've been thinking about as well since reading your synopsis of the treatment (thanks again). Does JMS say anything about the treatment in Vol. 15?
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
Thanks for the synopsis chrisspringob! It was a really interesting read.
Thanks for the synopsis chrisspringob! It was a really interesting read.
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
Interesting, but quite obviously devoid of a lot of the brilliant concepts that made the series what it was. I'm wondering what the fans who are always talking about JMS's beautifully planned arc and what a shame it is that it never got to see the light of day think about this.
Interesting, but quite obviously devoid of a lot of the brilliant concepts that made the series what it was. I'm wondering what the fans who are always talking about JMS's beautifully planned arc and what a shame it is that it never got to see the light of day think about this.
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
I think it's interesting how JMS had been on record for so long that Babylon 5 wasn't some kind of deep space franchise, and it was a story with a beginning, middle, and end in five years and that would be it.
We all know that the movies, Crusade, the Lost Tales, Legend of the Rangers, a couple dozen novels, and who knows what else came after, but it's interesting that the idea of expanding the universe existed from almost day one.
I think it's interesting how JMS had been on record for so long that Babylon 5 wasn't some kind of deep space franchise, and it was a story with a beginning, middle, and end in five years and that would be it.
We all know that the movies, Crusade, the Lost Tales, Legend of the Rangers, a couple dozen novels, and who knows what else came after, but it's interesting that the idea of expanding the universe existed from almost day one.
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
Indeed. He provides the entire thing for your reading pleasure!
Indeed. He provides the entire thing for your reading pleasure!
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
That's nothing new for JMS though. In the 1990ies in GeNIE he also said, "You'll all be blown away by The Gathering the sets are fantastic, etc"
Then when aspects of the 'Alien Quarter' set we're panned - JMS suddenly stated how at odds he was with the set design, implementation, etc.
Bottom line - JMS often changes his story and retcons past events to fit his current view on any given situation.
That's nothing new for JMS though. In the 1990ies in GeNIE he also said, "You'll all be blown away by The Gathering the sets are fantastic, etc"
Then when aspects of the 'Alien Quarter' set we're panned - JMS suddenly stated how at odds he was with the set design, implementation, etc.
Bottom line - JMS often changes his story and retcons past events to fit his current view on any given situation.
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
To the original poster, thank you VERY much for posting this, as I always wanted to know this but was unwilling to spend the $100-$200 for it.
Wow, that is bizarre. I had no idea it was THAT different. In many ways the whole thing feels very S1, with a main emphasis on the Minbari and the Centauri. Hell, even a Earth-Minbari War Part Two. Wow.
I like the idea of the Shadows and the Centauri and even the Minbari being around more as villains. But I must admit, what we got was a better story.
Another thing that feels questionable is Sakai getting mind-"raped" and then Sinclair knocking up Delenn. I guess it would have been a year or two between these events, but yeesh!
To the original poster, thank you VERY much for posting this, as I always wanted to know this but was unwilling to spend the $100-$200 for it.
Wow, that is bizarre. I had no idea it was THAT different. In many ways the whole thing feels very S1, with a main emphasis on the Minbari and the Centauri. Hell, even a Earth-Minbari War Part Two. Wow.
I like the idea of the Shadows and the Centauri and even the Minbari being around more as villains. But I must admit, what we got was a better story.
Another thing that feels questionable is Sakai getting mind-"raped" and then Sinclair knocking up Delenn. I guess it would have been a year or two between these events, but yeesh!
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
It's interesting to think about how early or late in the game each of these discarded story elements might have been jettisoned. One example: As early as "Midnight on the Firing Line", Londo mentions his dream about he and G'Kar strangling each other "in 20 years". So does that mean that, even by Episode 1 of Season 1, JMS had already abandoned the idea of Londo's confrontation with the Keeper/Shadows over freeing Sinclair & Delenn taking place just a few years after the timeframe of the series, during "Babylon Prime"? Or was his death at the hands of G'Kar originally meant to be a separate incident?
It's interesting to think about how early or late in the game each of these discarded story elements might have been jettisoned. One example: As early as "Midnight on the Firing Line", Londo mentions his dream about he and G'Kar strangling each other "in 20 years". So does that mean that, even by Episode 1 of Season 1, JMS had already abandoned the idea of Londo's confrontation with the Keeper/Shadows over freeing Sinclair & Delenn taking place just a few years after the timeframe of the series, during "Babylon Prime"? Or was his death at the hands of G'Kar originally meant to be a separate incident?
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
""B Prime can move through space like a starship, and they go off on a mission to clear their names and build the alliance to bring peace to the galaxy.""
Given what I've heard about the future of CRUSADE... that the Excalibur would have become renegades from Earth and the Alliance after finding the cure... it sounds like he was going to repeat this spin-off storyline verbatim. With the Drakh replacing the Shadows as series villain, perhaps?
""B Prime can move through space like a starship, and they go off on a mission to clear their names and build the alliance to bring peace to the galaxy.""
Given what I've heard about the future of CRUSADE... that the Excalibur would have become renegades from Earth and the Alliance after finding the cure... it sounds like he was going to repeat this spin-off storyline verbatim. With the Drakh replacing the Shadows as series villain, perhaps?
Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS
Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking as well. Of course, he'd already used some of that storyline in B5 with "Severed Dreams" and the Earth Civil War, which is why some people complained that the proposed future direction of Crusade looked a little too familiar.
Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking as well. Of course, he'd already used some of that storyline in B5 with "Severed Dreams" and the Earth Civil War, which is why some people complained that the proposed future direction of Crusade looked a little too familiar.