Honestly, Insurrection isn't that bad...

[BillJ]

This has become kind of a sad read for me. Until the last few posts in here I was under the impression that Piller was generally fairly well-regarded.

People working together for a long time sometimes become cross with each other. Not ideal, but it happens.

Dorn? I'm disappointed that he gave in when he clearly had no interest in continuing on a weekly basis. I guess they drove a dump truck of money up to his house.

 

[Jeyl]

But even if you look past that glaring problem, there's the matter of how this film contorts things to create an action-adventure film by never bothering to have the Son'a, the Bak'u, and the Federation meet with each other and actually talk about the situation and try to come up with a compromise. In that sense, this movie arguably betrays the ideals of TNG's "let's go to the conference room and talk about this before we do anything hasty" spirit more than any other.

Even simpler than that. The film NEVER lets the Bak'u become aware of the stakes that are happening in the galaxy. And from a writer's perspective, it's obvious why they chose not to.

- If the Bak'u wish to keep their planet and it's rings of power, they're basically selfish jerks who want all the wonders of life all to themselves. Medical science progression be danged.
- If the Bak'u decide to allow the Federation to study and collect the rings at the expense of their immortality, than you've got no action movie.

You see, that's why I don't consider Insurrection a good movie. The storyline's foundation is broken. It's a bucket that's leaking, and instead of trying to fix or replace the bucket, Pillar chose to ignore it in the hopes you wouldn't notice. Once I noticed it, I couldn't engage with the movie.

 

[PCz911]

Yeah Riker and Worf (initially Yar) were created to handle the action to anser the criticisms of Kirk always leading landing parties. But over time, Stewart got antsy. "The captain doesn't do enough fighting and f'king on this show." Generations, at least, had him getting beat up by Soran so Kirk could be the action guy. That was only film where we saw TV Picard. After that, I can almost hear him saying "if you want me in these things, I need to be throwing punches."

I totally agree. Action man Picard vs intellectual Picard. No offense to Patrick , but his acting is less physical. I’m sure it’s all that Shakespearean training. It is a bit ironic that his time in superhero films he’s… in a wheelchair.

 

[Yistaan]

I totally agree. Action man Picard vs intellectual Picard. No offense to Patrick , but his acting is less physical. I’m sure it’s all that Shakespearean training. It is a bit ironic that his time in superhero films he’s… in a wheelchair.

Word is that Patrick was trying to overact in that wheelchair in the first X-Men film until the director told him to tone it down. I can't find the link now (possibly because said director's been socially canceled for alleged misdeeds)

 

[BillJ]

I can't find the link now (possibly because said director's been socially canceled for alleged misdeeds)

Good riddance.

 

[Kor]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but since the comparison with eminent domain on an interstellar scale was brought up, I cannot help but draw some comparison between the role of the Federation in this film, and that of the Vogons in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Kor

 

[Tomalak]

Well we know Picard often wore a dressing gown.

 

[CoveTom]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but since the comparison with eminent domain on an interstellar scale was brought up, I cannot help but draw some comparison between the role of the Federation in this film, and that of the Vogons in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Kor

 

[Steve Roby]

He absolutely is. But no one is perfect.

Read Fade In - he's always been very open about his own failings and limitations. And he's got nothing on Roddenberry!

Fade In made me think he had some massive blind spots and left me thinking less of him than I had before, but that's life.

 

[PCz911]

Word is that Patrick was trying to overact in that wheelchair in the first X-Men film until the director told him to tone it down. I can't find the link now (possibly because said director's been socially canceled for alleged misdeeds)

I did not know that. It’s a fascinating choice for an actor whose strength is the spoken word. But, having read his book, I walked away not terribly impressed with the man. Sometimes, it’s better NOT to read their works.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

But, having read his book, I walked away not terribly impressed with the man. Sometimes, it’s better NOT to read their works.

Same. I came away from Making It So wanting both more and less, if that makes sense. I felt the prose could have been tightened up considerably -- there are many anecdotes where I felt Stewart took twice as much space as the story needed -- and then gone deeper into things, especially on the interpersonal relationship side. In general, I came away from Making It So feeling the book is insubstantial and Stewart himself a bit superficial, incurious, and dull.

 

[FredH]

In general, I came away from Making It So feeling the book is insubstantial and Stewart himself a bit superficial, incurious, and dull.

Wow, what a difference from the impression he made back in the day. But I guess we’re always seeing a persona, of course.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Wow, what a difference from the impression he made back in the day. But I guess we’re always seeing a persona, of course.

To be fair to Stewart, he's an intensely private person, and he makes that clear a number of times in his memoir.

Yet, even allowing for that, I found some of his creative choices frustrating, and the off-hand manner in which he reveals some things, like his difficult relationship with his daughter, did a disservice to himself and the story he wanted to tell. I felt like Stewart was a bit of a naif, moving aimlessly through a life where things just happen, and it was all devoid of meaning and introspection.

Shatner's memoirs, in comparison to Making It So, felt incisive and erudite, and also full of personality.

To bring this back to Insurrection, I know Stewart is capable of incisive erudition. I've read his memos on Berman and Piller's proposed story in Fade In. There's a smart, thoughtful, and cranky guy there. That smart, thoughtful, cranky guy was generally absent from Making It So.

 

[Jeyl]

To bring this back to Insurrection, I know Stewart is capable of incisive erudition. I've read his memos on Berman and Piller's proposed story in Fade In. There's a smart, thoughtful, and cranky guy there. That smart, thoughtful, cranky guy was generally absent from Making It So.

I did find this part of 'Fade In' pretty funny when Patrick shows off his highly detailed knowledge on... Cricket.

Patrick had clear personal goals for Jean-Luc Picard in the new movie.
“The great all-rounders in cricket,” he said, “...like Don Bradman or Tom
Gravney have a whole range of shots -- fast bowling, spin bowling – they can hit
all around the field in any direction making it impossible for the defensemen to
position themselves. I think of Picard as a Gravney. And Gravney’s most
dominating, intimidating shot, rarely played, is the one straight back at the bowler
and that’s what Picard should do in this next film.”

Uh huh.

And that "Uh huh" was not my addition!

 

[Allyn Gibson]

That might be a rare case of Picard showing some Gallic pride; cricket might have originated in France.

The "Picard who fought at Trafalgar" I think actually sailed for the Royal Navy under Nelson, not the French. There were French officers who fought for France before Napoleon declared himself Emperor, and then went over to the Allies to fight against the Empire. One notable example if Jean Victor Marie Moreau; he was a supporter of Napoleon initially. then he was banished to the United States in 1805 (Madison would offer him command of the American army in 1812), and he ultimately died while advising Tsar Alexander at the Battle of Dresden in 1813.

 

[Tomalak]

I did find this part of 'Fade In' pretty funny when Patrick shows off his highly detailed knowledge on... Cricket.



And that "Uh huh" was not my addition!

No doubt Stewart had the same reaction whenever Piller brought up some tedious baseball anecdote!

 

[CoveTom]

Patrick Stewart is an excellent hired hand. I do not mean that disrespectfully at all. I mean that when he is working for someone else and playing the part as written, he is an amazingly good actor. However, like many artists, he is not the best judge of his own work. He apparently never really cared for the Picard that the audience grew to love, and was always chomping at the bit to change him. He really did not have the power on the TV series to make that happen. However, by the time they got to the movies, and particularly from First Contact forward, his presence was considered crucial enough to the success of the film franchise that they pretty much accommodated whatever he wanted. I think things turned out decently well for FC because his demands could be reasonably worked into that particular story, but beyond that I think it was the ruination of the movies.

 

[bdub76]

I thought it was an overly expensive episode of TNG. This could have easily been a two parter. It wasn't ambitious enough to be a film.

 

[FormerLurker]

chomping at the bit

The time has come. I can no longer not say this.

It's CHAMPING at the bit, not chomping. A horse that chomps at the bit breaks his teeth.

 

[CoveTom]

The time has come. I can no longer not say this.

It's CHAMPING at the bit, not chomping. A horse that chomps at the bit breaks his teeth.

You've really been chomping at the bit to make that correction, haven't you?