I'll always defend a viewer's right to call TWOK a bad movie. I'll also insist on calling that viewer nuttier than a day-old deer turd and ridicule their misguided, silly take on the film.
IDIC.
IDIC.
Who invented Khan?
- Thread starter Tootai
- Start date
Why I posted it: that some people can consider something bad in one regard but still enjoy it.
Honestly, considering how frequently people on this very BBS write mistaken accounts of films and TV shows, it's hardly surprising that someone like her misses what seems obvious to you or me, and doesn't see what we might see as a theme as a theme.
I get that and she's welcome to her opinion. But it still perplexes me. The film isn't a complex mystery box and she missed subtle clues. It's pretty clear.
I'd actually understand if she said "I didn't like this movie." That's forming an opinion, not missing points the writer clearly made. But what do I know?
Y'know, on the "Kirk knows" thing, that's always bugged me. Terrell tells Kirk that Khan blames him for the death of his wife. Kirk says, "I know what he blames me for." How? Khan didn't say anything to Kirk about his wife during the encounter with the Reliant. And they just found Terrell and Chekov, neither of whom has had time to tell Kirk what has happened. How does Kirk know that McGivers is dead, let alone that Khan blames him for her death?
He knows Khan wants revenge. That's all he conclusively knows. He could have simply been shutting Terrell up because he didn't want to hear that he may have made a shitty decision. At the very least, Kirk know Khan wants revenge for leaving him on Ceti Alpha V. That's all he needed to know.
I just figure Kirk worked it out in his head after not seeing McGivers on the Reliant or not picking up any non-Augment life form readings on the ship. "Oh, no, Lieutenant McGivers died after we left. He's blaming me."
Correct. Kirk is not going to indulge in Khan's blame game. He's got a job to do.
He really didn't need to know that. He knows Khan wants revenge. He knows Khan hates Kirk for disrupting his plans for domination. That's all he needs to know. The exact details are irrelevant.
I've never had a problem with this scene. I could easily say the same in Kirk's shoes, even if I was making wrong assumptions as to the details.
Kirk beat Khan. Khan escaped and is ready for round 2. That's all I need to know.
I don't really think Kirk cared what Khan's motivations were in the moment, unless they were somehow going to help him defeat Khan. Khan had already attacked the Enterprise, killed at least one person and cripplied the ship, was looking for Genesis and clearly wasn't done with Kirk and/or the Enterprise yet. Stopping him was the priority; understanding him was relatively irrelevant.
I agree with that. My only issue is that Kirk seems oddly irritated with Terrell for telling him what Khan blames him for. I get it that Kirk is just concerned with defeating Khan at that moment, but Terrell had just gone through a horrific experience (and was still going through it, unbenknownst to Kirk but knownst to us). No reason for Kirk to be snippy with him.
Especially when the threat is still out there.
As a kid in the early days where internet access was dial-up and internet Trek talk focused on Berman Trek, I never had any idea that Wrath of Khan was supposed to be the "greatest Trek film of all time" (TM). Even when I started hearing more about hit TOS movies, it was more along the lines of "Voyage Home" making the most money or something like that.I'll always defend a viewer's right to call TWOK a bad movie. I'll also insist on calling that viewer nuttier than a day-old deer turd and ridicule their misguided, silly take on the film.
IDIC.
It wasn't until the 21st century where I suddenly learned that apparently everyone says that Wrath of Khan was the greatest Trek film. As a kid, I personally never liked it with the creepy Ceti eels and all that.
It's interesting that the most cited best films in the 2 big sci-fi franchises are the ones that have some plot twist at the end (Spock dying and Vader revealing he's Luke's father). I do wonder if that's what influences these opinions. Modern directors have gone overboard in super-secrecy around films and trying to recreate these shock moments, only for them to fall flat.
I never took that line as Kirk being irritated at Terrell. It's the entire situation affecting Kirk's emotions.
I don't even really consider Spock's death to be a plot twist...but it's been so long since I was surprised by it. His expression before he goes down to Engineering, and then his nerve-pinching McCoy, tells you everything you need to know. A plot twist would have been if he'd survived (shudder). And you kind of hope he will, even on a rewatch, because it is a bit gut-wrenching to watch Spock enter the chamber knowing what he's doing.
What's great about it is how it's executed though, no pun intended. His last conversation with Jim, his funeral, David talking to a grief-stricken Kirk and hopefully beginning some level of reconciliation, and even the conversation on the bridge at the end. I find it all very well executed.
There was no shock to Spock's death because it leaked months in advance, allegedly by Gene Roddenberry.
I learned about it before I saw the movie, and I was only about 7-1/2 years old.
Yeah, I don't remember Spock's death being a spoiler because the local newspaper reviews gave it away.
I think the audience was wondering "How" Spock was going to die.
I think the audience was wondering "How" Spock was going to die.
I didn't like WOK because I knew Spock was going to die and I was pissed off about that. Add to that that I absolutely loathe Space Seed and there you go.
The movie was obviously better than the episode.
Back in the day, I guess my favorite would have been IV, III then VI. IV aged badly, so it dropped so I guess I like III then VI. The only part of TMP that I liked was the flyby in the beginning. Should have left the theater after that. *grin*
The movie was obviously better than the episode.
Back in the day, I guess my favorite would have been IV, III then VI. IV aged badly, so it dropped so I guess I like III then VI. The only part of TMP that I liked was the flyby in the beginning. Should have left the theater after that. *grin*
