How big was the Enterprise?

[Cicero]

Maybe to you it doesn't, but that doesn't change the fact that the people who own and produce the franchise view it all as one continuous tapestry.

To be pedantic where I think it has some relevance, my understanding is that they don't actually own the franchise. They have been granted exclusive rights by law (the public retains other rights, such as fair use and first sale, and will eventually reclaim all rights), but it's not their property.

Whether we agree with every creative decision or not, that's the lens they're working through.

I think that matters when considering the works they produce, but not to the original series, which was created by different people. (That might be why I tend to include the 2009 film and Into Darkness when thinking of TOS and its films: Nimoy seems to have been very happy with them.)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

No. 3 looks to be by Jim Botaitis of JBOT Decals. It looks to be from his 947 ft version of the Enterprise (he also has a 1341 ft version as well).

Thank you! I really appreciate the link to Jim Botaitis's work. I'd never seen it before. It's an incredible effort.

 

[cooleddie74]

The more I look at Drexler's graphics from 2005 the more I agree with the scaling in them, as they line up pretty well with the official SNW numbers.

 

[knightgrace]

So what y’all are sayin’ is…it’s %#*+=?! big. Right?

Riiiight...

Ring World is big...

Remember that in Star Trek, Kzinti exists, so Ring World exists...

 

[Tallguy]

M.Y. Butt.

That seems a rather SFA response. ( )

 

[Cicero]

It's weird that twenty years after WWII, people would jump to battleship as the class of ship to think of that's larger than a cruiser, when carriers (which were capital ships that were way larger than cruisers) were so important to WWII.

It makes more sense if you think of a WWII fleet carrier as a battlecruiser with a very long-range main battery. In theory, carriers were vulnerable to battleships in the same way that other battlecruisers were (hence Japanese thinking at Midway and Leyte), but they could maneuver away from a battleship's more powerful but shorter-range battery.

Our modern supercarriers are functionally fast battleships (and are surprisingly well-armored), which the veterans working on the original Star Trek would have understood.

Also, I think the relevance of a starship's main power to its combat capability (warp drive, phaser power, shields) means that embarking small craft wouldn't be worthwhile when it comes to extending its effective fighting radius.

eta - It's somewhat ironic even, because both Enterprise and Yorktown (the proposed ship name in the original pitch Star Trek is…) were American carriers in WWII. Perhaps it was recognized that depicting a carrier in a skiffy setting would be even more expensive and involved than depicting a cruiser, even one with a hangar and a few shuttlecraft. It could also demand that attention be paid to more specifics, which would detract from keeping episodes interesting and accessible.

There seems to have been an emphasis on carrier names behind the scenes, at least on the part of Robert Justman:

I think there would be several other candidates, such as Saratoga and perhaps another English carrier, a French carrier, a Russian carrier and certainly a Japanese carrier.

Battleships were ultimately the main source of international names (Hood, Valiant, Potemkin, and the fictional Defiant), but Lexington was also adopted from the rolls of American carriers.

 

[korblborp]

And so good and timeless that the SNW reimagining of the Engine Room and the "cathedral" is just an upscaled and more detailed version.

and facing the other direction... and extraordinarily oversized so there's just a big abyss in the front of the secondary hull behind the dish

One issue with the pipe cathedral in the engineering set is that the pipes come closer together going up, whereas the support pylons of the warp nacelles spread apart going up. So, any association between the two has to come to terms with that.

One approach is to have the pipes cross at some sort of convergence before heading up towards the nacelles, half on port and half on starboard. That approach sets a hard lower limit on how much vertical space is needed.

assuming the pipe cathedral is related to or located near the pylons at all, which as we see some takes assume and others don't, also impacting part of the "will the shuttlebay fit" question...

Riiiight...

Ring World is big...

Remember that in Star Trek, Kzinti exists, so Ring World exists...

one does not necessarily indicate the other. although trek does have at least one ridiculously solid dyson sphere of the type ringworld was supposed to be the more sensible version of.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

assuming the pipe cathedral is related to or located near the pylons at all,

... which in other words is exactly what I said.

 

[CoveTom]

Yeah, we had no comparisons to go by in either the TOS/TAS Era nor in the TOS Movies until the Excelsior showed up to dwarf the Connies.

Well, we also got the Reliant for a comparison in TWOK.

 

[cooleddie74]

Well, I meant an obviously bigger starship class, but yes, that is very true.

 

[CoveTom]

To be pedantic where I think it has some relevance, my understanding is that they don't actually own the franchise. They have been granted exclusive rights by law (the public retains other rights, such as fair use and first sale, and will eventually reclaim all rights), but it's not their property.

Paramount/CBS/Skydance/Whatever the Hell We're Calling it This Week most definitely does own the franchise. Under the law, it is their intellectual property. The fact that the public may have certain rights, such as fair use rights, does not change that. The water company has the right to run water lines underground across a certain portion of my property. That doesn't mean that I don't own the property.

 

[Cicero]

Paramount/CBS/Skydance/Whatever the Hell We're Calling it This Week most definitely does own the franchise. Under the law, it is their intellectual property. The fact that the public may have certain rights, such as fair use rights, does not change that. The water company has the right to run water lines underground across a certain portion of my property. That doesn't mean that I don't own the property.

The constitutional basis of copyright law is the granting of a special limited right:

The Congress shall have Power ...

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries

Common law principles governing private property are separately enshrined in the Fifth Amendment, but are entirely different.

The last several decades have seen a concerted effort on the part of corporate holders of rights to re-brand those rights (and trademark, which derives from the interstate commerce power) as "intellectual property," but my understanding is that that notion isn't grounded in the Constitution or common law.

 

[Tomalak]

The ownership of Star Trek has always been a little murky to me. Clearly Roddenberry retained some stake, as his estate via Roddenberry Entertainment are credited on all of the new shows. I don't think that would just be a courtesy credit.

 

[Tallguy]

The ownership of Star Trek has always been a little murky to me. Clearly Roddenberry retained some stake, as his estate via Roddenberry Entertainment are credited on all of the new shows. I don't think that would just be a courtesy credit.

I'm sure Rod gets the courtesy money.

 

[publiusr]

Does this count?
View attachment 54365

I wonder if that was what inspired Vonda’s “Magellanic Cloud” class.

 

[CoveTom]

The constitutional basis of copyright law is the granting of a special limited right:



Common law principles governing private property are separately enshrined in the Fifth Amendment, but are entirely different.

The last several decades have seen a concerted effort on the part of corporate holders of rights to re-brand those rights (and trademark, which derives from the interstate commerce power) as "intellectual property," but my understanding is that that notion isn't grounded in the Constitution or common law.

There is a lot more that goes into intellectual property law than just copyright. That is one piece, and an important piece, but it is certainly not the only one.

 

[knightgrace]

I wonder if that was what inspired Vonda’s “Magellanic Cloud” class.

It was supposed to be a small scout ship...

My best guess is an Oberth. Because the Grissom is referred to as a scout if memory serves me.

 

[cooleddie74]

"Scout-class" vessel.

 

[Tallguy]

The new Galaxy-class ships were smaller than the Enterprise, but much faster. They were most efficient around warp twelve. Only three as yet existed: Andromeda, M-31, and Magellanic Clouds. Their purpose was very-long-range exploration;

Doesn't sound very Oberth-y to me.

I wonder if that was what inspired Vonda’s “Magellanic Cloud” class.

Since that came from The Wrath of Khan I'd say not.

 

[XCV330]

12 furlongs and 23 cubits