Trek's future according to Paramount's new owners...

[Borgminister]

Kurtzman Trek is more like Long John Silvers; bad, irrelevant and its customer base continues to shrink.

I used to love LJS fish and hush puppies in another life... usually preceded by a sixpack of Burgermeister.

 

[Set Harth]

I used to love LJS fish and hush puppies in another life...

 

[fireproof78]

I think it comes down to the difference between broadcast vs. streaming.

Up until 2005, Trek was constrained by airing on broadcast TV.

Broadcast TV is heavily regulated (no profanity is permitted). Everything had to be family-friendly. The characters on Trek were reduced to being animatronic set pieces utterly lacking in emotion.

Streaming, OTOH, has no such limitations on language. I found Voyager's emotionally restrained crew unrealistic (These people may not see their families and loved ones again in their lifetimes and they're just supposed to pretend everything is normal?)

People don't always keep it together. People get stressed out. People cuss, cry, yell, and scream. They display a full range of human emotions.

Humans must evolve.

 

[johnjm22]

I think it comes down to the difference between broadcast vs. streaming.

Up until 2005, Trek was constrained by airing on broadcast TV.

Broadcast TV is heavily regulated (no profanity is permitted). Everything had to be family-friendly. The characters on Trek were reduced to being animatronic set pieces utterly lacking in emotion.

Streaming, OTOH, has no such limitations on language. I found Voyager's emotionally restrained crew unrealistic (These people may not see their families and loved ones again in their lifetimes and they're just supposed to pretend everything is normal?)

The use of a curse word isn't why it was immature. If the line was "this is so freakin cool!" it would be just as dumb.

People don't always keep it together. People get stressed out. People cuss, cry, yell, and scream. They display a full range of human emotions.

I agree, but there's a mature way to go about that, and it's certainly not befitting of professional military personnel on duty.

 

[johnjm22]

I used to love LJS fish and hush puppies in another life... usually preceded by a sixpack of Burgermeister.

Well I guess the analogy is even more perfect than I originally thought.

 

[Danja]

I agree, but there's a mature way to go about that, and it's certainly not befitting of professional military personnel on duty.

Clearly you've never been around military personnel.

They've raised profanity to an art form!

 

[fireproof78]

Clearly you've never been around military personnel.

They've raised profanity to an art form!

I have worked with several military members and veterans and swearing is a second language to them. And then they learn swear words in other languages.

 

[Danja]

I have worked with several military members and veterans and swearing is a second language to them. And then they learn swear words in other languages.

I can swear in German.

 

[fireproof78]

I can swear in German.

I can swear in Spanish. I learned it from a Marine and Navy veteran.

Also, to add to this idea, unless it is a formal setting military personnel are very free with the swearing. My uncle was in the army, was given orders from a one Star general to attend a training. However, the order was not signed by the general so when the command sergeant gave my uncle, a sergeant, the order, my uncle reviewed it then said he wanted to file charges for an unlawful order against the commanding general. The command sergeant looked at my uncle and asked him, "Sergeant McDonald, are you fucking serious?"

 

[Turtletrekker]

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[Danja]

I can swear in Spanish. I learned it from a Marine and Navy veteran.

Also, to add to this idea, unless it is a formal setting military personnel are very free with the swearing. My uncle was in the army, was given orders from a one Star general to attend a training.

My father was a lieutenant in the Army.

There are a great many things I wish I never learned from him. >.<

 

[Mudd]

ARTISTIC integrity is what I said.

In pop entertainment, that's never anything other than "What I like and think is cool."

The only thing certain about the future of the franchise is that the complainers will not get what they want. They never do.

Starfleet is, without question, a military organization within the stories. Nonetheless, it's been flunking basic tests of plausibilty as a navy since the day of its inception. Virtually all of its Starfleet characters who show any volition in the stories would end their careers in disgrace and, most likely, military prison.

Trek has as much plausibility as you decide to grant it. No more.

 

[Khamsin]

People don't always keep it together. People get stressed out. People cuss, cry, yell, and scream. They display a full range of human emotions.

You're right. But there is an appropriate time and place for that. In my opinion, it's immature not to show a level of restraint and display your full emotional range in a professional setting. I feel like a lot of modern shows, including DSC and, to a lesser extent, SNW, sometimes miss the mark on this.
I'd say DS9 is quite good at appropriately depicting a realistic working environment.
Also, I agree with you that VOY's lack of focus on how the crew processed their situation off-duty was a missed opportunity.

 

[The Wormhole]

I agree, but there's a mature way to go about that, and it's certainly not befitting of professional military personnel on duty.

I mean, professional military personnel on duty have been known to draw a giant penis in the sky...

 

[Khamsin]

I mean, professional military personnel on duty have been known to draw a giant penis in the sky

And the crew was subsequently held accountable, judging from the post you linked. Which signals that this behavior isn't normal.

Also, Starfleet isn't exactly a typical military organization, in my opinion. From what I can tell, it normally operates on principles that are quite different from those of a modern military. It prioritizes research, exploration, and diplomatic solutions to the problems. It seems to be a mix of a scientific institution and the military. And scientists, in my opinion, tend to be a lot more cultured than military personnel. (Yes, I'm biased.)

 

[137th Gebirg]

"I'm a soldier."
- Kirk, in Errand of Mercy

Yes, it's a military. Maybe a paramilitary by some folks' definition, but still military in actions and deeds. General Order 24 further proves it. Who else would have such a directive to wipe out all life on a habitable world than a military organization?

Roddenberry's later dementia-induced intentions to whitewash and retcon Starfleet's mission in TNG are irrelevant.

 

[The Wormhole]

And the crew was subsequently held accountable, judging from the post you linked. Which signals that this behavior isn't normal.

Oh, it's normal. Just because those who engage in it are reprimanded doesn't change the fact that this sort of behavior is normal.

Also, Starfleet isn't exactly a typical military organization, in my opinion. From what I can tell, it normally operates on principles that are quite different from those of a modern military. It prioritizes research, exploration, and diplomatic solutions to the problems. It seems to be a mix of a scientific institution and the military. And scientists, in my opinion, tend to be a lot more cultured than military personnel. (Yes, I'm biased.)

I'm not going to touch the "is Starfleet military" thing as that always spirals into unpleasantness. However, whether Starfleet is military or a science institute is immaterial to this discussion. I guarantee you, scientists have their immature sides and engage in all manner of conduct one with a stick up their ass would consider inappropriate or unprofessional. Fooling around is human nature, and that's never going to change regardless of what time period one is in or if one is a soldier, scientist, or some sort of weird melding of the two professions.

 

[137th Gebirg]

This particular topic does seem to trend into third-rail territory.

 

[Khamsin]

Oh, it's normal. Just because those who engage in it are reprimanded doesn't change the fact that this sort of behavior is normal.

I disagree.

However, whether Starfleet is military or a science institute is immaterial to this discussion. I guarantee you, scientists have their immature sides and engage in all manner of conduct one with a stick up their ass would consider inappropriate or unprofessional.

Oh, I'm well aware of scientists' immature side. Still, I wouldn't want Star Trek to turn into a version of "The Big Bang Theory" in space. I'd like it to be a little more thought-provoking and maybe a little inspiring. I think that is how ST was originally intended to be, I see it in older shows and S1-2 of SNW and I'd like this trend to continue. I love TBBT, but its idea and purpose are slightly different from those of Star Trek.
Also, addressing an earlier point in this discussion, people that do a lot of reading, writing, and thinking tend to use more sophisticated language. It is pleasant to have characters speak in full sentences and have some deeper discussions from time to time. I guarantee you, scientists do that. And I think that aspect also goes into "maturity" backet.

 

[johnjm22]

Clearly you've never been around military personnel.

I worked at the NTC Ft. Irwin for many years. Worked directly with both NCO's and O-4's. An occasional O-5. My grandpa was a Sergeant Major. It's the reason I live in California because he was stationed
here.

They've raised profanity to an art form!

Your right. Situation dependent. The operational scenarios we often see depicted in ST call for a degree of professionalism.