Should Wesley have been kicked out of the Academy?

[Dukhat]

Locarno covered up the accident that got a cadet under his command killed, and had other members of his squad do the same. He didn't come forward... he was forced to admit what happened. He didn't have remorse, he was only sorry he got caught. Plus, he was trying to shift the blame on Albert's death on Albert himself... definitely a lot of ego here, too. Especially considering he was in command, and if he knew one of his cadets possibly couldn't handle the maneuver, he shouldn't have tried to do it, never mind the fact it was banned already. He wanted to graduate in a blaze of glory.

Paris covered up an accident that got others killed. He did it on his own (as far as we know), but he came forward on his own and admitted his guilt. He had remorse, otherwise he likely would have gotten off with no one being the wiser.

Locarno: hubris. Paris: humility. The latter is definitely far more likeable and more redemptive than the former.

Well, all they did was tweak Locarno's backstory for Tom's so that Paris didn't look like a total asshole from the start, which made it easier to forgive him. In other words, they sugarcoated it. But to take someone who even the audience might think was completely irredeemable and turn him around...that's good writing. But obviously the UPN-hired writers weren't going to be tasked with going down that road. So they came up with a less offensive character that was easier to write for.

 

[Nerys Myk]

UPN-hired writers

Is that a thing? The network hiring writers. Seems below their paygrade. Or is that " snarkasm"

 

[Dukhat]

Is that a thing? The network hiring writers. Seems below their paygrade. Or is that " snarkasm"

This is UPN we're talking about.

 

[Maurice]

n the end Locarno showed selflessness to his classmates by insisting that everything was his idea and that they should not be punished for HIS actions.

Or, Locarno knew he was toast, and figured that shouldering the blame made for better optics, and he might get some leniency by admitting it. People are sometimes "honest" for self-serving reasons.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This is UPN we're talking about.

Were they that hands on with their programing?

 

[Farscape One]

Or, Locarno knew he was toast, and figured that shouldering the blame made for better optics, and he might get some leniency by admitting it. People are sometimes "honest" for self-serving reasons.

Bingo.

Given Locarno's obvious ego, that is almost certainly the case.

Well, all they did was tweak Locarno's backstory for Tom's so that Paris didn't look like a total asshole from the start, which made it easier to forgive him. In other words, they sugarcoated it. But to take someone who even the audience might think was completely irredeemable and turn him around...that's good writing. But obviously the UPN-hired writers weren't going to be tasked with going down that road. So they came up with a less offensive character that was easier to write for.

That single tweak makes a big difference. And this was VOY we're talking about here. The show that completely forgot about the Chakotay/Paris stuff in the pilot by the next episode, didn't really do much with their Starfleet/Maquis conflict part of the premise, would get severely damaged and would look it but look pristine in the next episode, etc.

VOY was fine with some things, but it was hardly capable of turning Locarno into someone redeemable and would root for.

 

[SatrianiRules]

But to take someone who even the audience might think was completely irredeemable and turn him around...that's good writing.

Artemis Entreri.....

 

[Shawnster]

Were they that hands on with their programing?

I want to say yes, but I don't have data to support it. Someone else might.

What I do have is UPN gained the rights to air WWE (or was it WWF at the time?). In order to cross-promote they directed Voyager to write a wrestling episode and hire The Rock to play a role.

 

[Dukhat]

VOY was fine with some things, but it was hardly capable of turning Locarno into someone redeemable and would root for.

I think they could have succeeded in the first few seasons, which I generally felt had better writing and more ensemble character-driven plotlines. But once it became the Doctor & Seven of Nine Show, all that went off the table.

 

[Some Sort of Lemur]

iirc per The Fifty-Year Mission the writing team was all Taylor-Piller-Berman’s choosing based on how they’d split up the remaining TNG staffers with DS9, with Braga getting into VOY, Naren Shankar being dropped because Jeri Taylor thought he was too young (or maybe using that as an excuse for just not liking him). UPN wouldn’t micro-manage to the level of staffing—their involvement would come in looking at what they’d written and providing notes at that stage.

I’m not sure if I believe the whole rights thing—wouldn’t Locarno be Star Trek’s property, not Moore and Shankar’s? We never hear this with respect to any other character—nothing about royalties owed towards the character of O’Brien, for instance (and who created him? Gene and DC Fontana in “Farpoint” or whoever first named him?), nor for any of the guest stars DS9 brought back again and again. It might be something as basic as just not wanting to be held back by any backstory, or trying to avoid the impression that they’re giving their viewers homework via excess continuity.

I don’t think we ever really learn enough details about Paris’s past wrt his relative “redeemability,” or not directly. If anything I think the big difference between the characters comes from elsewhere—Locarno’s a born leader who makes an immoral decision but owns up to it in the end. Tom, though, has (or is revealed to have) a lot more insecurities, which makes his character easier for the audience to approach.

 

[Mojochi]

Do I think he should've been expelled? Yeah, probably. They deliberately, & with full knowledge of past consequences, engaged in a wrongful, reckless, dangerous action, that caused a death (one exactly reflective of why they ultimately made it prohibited to begin with) That's pretty clear cut. Conspiracy to attempt to defraud the investigation & conceal that wrongdoing is compoundedly so. Realistically, You'd face a criminal charge of some kind.

Now, do I think they should think he ought to be expelled? Maybe not. I'm reminded of how Picard looks at Riker's Pegasus confession. "When the moment came to make a decision, you made the right one - As long as you can do that, you still deserve to wear that uniform". It's clear they place a lot of stock in that kind of integrity, that doing so merits consideration. I'm not sure why TF any of the others benefitted from it, when Wes was the only one to cross the line, when it mattered, & stand up for truth & justice.

But he did it, and doing so was the only thing that prevented an injustice being perpetrated. So, maybe you judge him as redeemable for that, & want to encourage it rather than outright dismiss it. I can see the enlightened Starfleet having that sensibility. However, I've no clue why you'd give a pass to Sito Jaxa though, who's only defense was that their leader claimed he coerced her into recklessness & perjury, & she was fine letting it all go untold, until she had no other option.

That's ultimately the thing that should gnaw at you, like it did Riker. You can maybe forgive yourself for being talked into something stupid, but being talked into covering it up, shifting blame to others, supporting fraudulence in the face of tragic loss of life? That's choosing to be dirty.

Riker probably had to do that for Pressman, & that's what ate at him the most, & soured him on the guy, more than anything I bet, even more than his treaty violation. He got paid off with a cushy, "lay-low" assignment on Betazed, after he supported Pressman's dubious account, in a court-martial, that he'd ultimately realized was fraud. He probably coasted on Pressman's recommendation for quite a while too. It certainly would've still been present on his resume, when Picard picked it up. That's the part that should irk you. The deaths were unintentional, maybe even not entirely your fault (for Riker) The complicity however, is an ongoing stain, one that it's fortunate that Wes got out from under, before it was too late.

 

[BillJ]

They would have all been deep-sixed if it hadn't been for Wesley's connection to the Enterprise.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I’m not sure if I believe the whole rights thing—wouldn’t Locarno be Star Trek’s property, not Moore and Shankar’s? We never hear this with respect to any other character—nothing about royalties owed towards the character of O’Brien, for instance (and who created him? Gene and DC Fontana in “Farpoint” or whoever first named him?), nor for any of the guest stars DS9 brought back again and again. It might be something as basic as just not wanting to be held back by any backstory, or trying to avoid the impression that they’re giving their viewers homework via excess continuity

I believe original characters were once owned by their creator, necessitating royalties. But the issue was sorted out (presumably at the detriment of anyone once owed royalties) post-ENT, pre-DSC. T'Pau became T'Pol for the same reasons (and then royalties were presumably paid to feature T'Pau in a couple of season 4 episodes)

 

[The Wormhole]

I believe original characters were once owned by their creator, necessitating royalties. But the issue was sorted out (presumably at the detriment of anyone once owed royalties) post-ENT, pre-DSC. T'Pau became T'Pol for the same reasons (and then royalties were presumably paid to feature T'Pau in a couple of season 4 episodes)

That rule only applies if the writers in question were not in the show's writing staff. Which is not the case with Locarno, as The First Duty was written by staff writers, Ron Moore and Naren Shankar. Indeed, Ron Moore has later commented that had Voyager used Locarno, he wouldn't be owed anything, then added "though I sure wish I were."

 

[Qonundrum]

PICARD: They very nearly did. Mister Locarno made an impassioned plea for the rest of you. He said that he'd used his influence as squadron leader to convince you to attempt the Kolvoord manoeuvre and then to cover up the truth. He asked to take full responsibility.

He'll eventually become Captain, because he has all the hallmarks of one, based on how often Kirk states he is responsible for those under his command.

 

[Qonundrum]

But if he didn't say that, he's not Star Fleet. That's his training/programming. If he doesn't say just that exactly, and then open his wrists to save a life, he's a broken villain.

Also this arrogant cadet is trying to manipulate a board of Admirals with possibly centuries of cumulative experience, with text book kidshit psychology. An adult can recognize when they are being manipulated. It's an unsavory feeling.

But lets not for get. Welsey is a god. Protecting the Universe from an emotionally pitted Wes rampaging, blowing up planets is... Wesley's first entrance exam was fixed! They put him up against real losers, and he still failed. Back to First Duty, 3 of these Cadets were kept on the books, so that Wes didn't notice that he was a mad dog being kept in a box, and Locarno just pissed them off, so #uck'im.

Good points, all.

TNG also had a habit of being anti-TOS at times. Wes with the Traveler power is anti-WNMHGB because it's the 24th century now and humans are now fully perfect (which is as fairytale as fairytale can get, at least post-19th century where fairytales were anything but cozy.) TMoaM is anti-"The Ultimate Computer", etc. etc. All fiction, all entertaining, all tapdancing with real life issues rewoven with varying amounts of creativity.

Kirk killed Gary Mitchel for a good reason.

And had to. Kirk was right that they would eventually try to kill each other, leaving only one. As Gary already said "Blasphemy" to her as she started thinking into what Kirk kept yammering about, Kirk had already guessed right. (WNMHGB is a very underrated story..)

Assuming accelerated aging wouldn't have killed Mitchell first. One visual cue I noticed was Mitchell getting gray sideburns after being altered by the galaxy edge zapping. Could he been aging as a result? (Or did they color them gray to match up with the eyes to make him look more sinister?) And for Dehner, but would have been later as it took longer to affect her.

 

[BillJ]

TNG also had a habit of being anti-TOS at times. Wes with the Traveler power is anti-WNMHGB because it's the 24th century now and humans are now fully perfect (which is as fairytale as fairytale can get, at least post-19th century where fairytales were anything but cozy.)

Forget Riker with the power of the Q in "Hide and Q"?