There's a memorial thread in Miscellaneous and this year's Major League Baseball thread has been named in his honor.Damn, I hadn't heard about his passing until just now.
Spoilers Russell T. Davies Returns to Doctor Who as New Showrunner
- Thread starter Allyn Gibson
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Or outright canceled them like The Owl House (but at least it was able to end on its own terms). Even then, showrunner Dana Terrace had to fight an uphill battle from the beginning.
Oh, yes, very much so. People have been pointing that out ever since a certain governor's stupid war against Disney...and Disney eventually capitulated.
Yup, I just saw the baseball thread which made me realize it was very recent. Thank you for the heads up about the Miscellaneous thread.
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Disney+ audience is for mainstream children and their parents. You get some Disney adults too. And you get some viewers that like their other content too. It's not a huge indie studio outside of Fox Searchlight, which I don't know is still a thing. A24 is the home for indie films, and their content is going to HBO MAX.
I don't think it's a LGBT+ thing as that has gone mainstream. It's tough to find any show these days that doesn't have at least one LGBT+ character.
What has changed is that Disney has backed off from its trigger warnings before shows and scaled backed on its more diverse content. It got crushed with Snow White. I think, the studio is going more middle of the road to maximize its audience numbers. It would rather have both a conservative and progressive audience, rather than picking one over the other.
If Doctor Who wants to go beyond what's considered mainstream today, then Disney is not the right partner. That puts it back into a niche.
What I do know from watching old Matt Smith and Tennant episodes recently is that the storytelling today isn't on par with what it was in the past.
Kind of puzzled how Who is going beyond what is mainstream. What 'extreme' positions is Who taking. Who's approach, as it has been since it returned, is to have diversity in its characters and say everyone is equal.
I think all that's happening is the usual suspects who like to cos play as progressive are claiming Who is out of the mainstream to justify their perspectives. You're demanding too much so you're to blame for bigots hating you. When we all know bigots would hate us anyway. The old asking for equal rights means we're getting more rights than the majority nonsense.
I think all that's happening is the usual suspects who like to cos play as progressive are claiming Who is out of the mainstream to justify their perspectives. You're demanding too much so you're to blame for bigots hating you. When we all know bigots would hate us anyway. The old asking for equal rights means we're getting more rights than the majority nonsense.
Can you find any Who with villains comparable to whotshisface in Robot Revolution? Especially in terms of the death, and mixed messaging whereby he is a victim as much as villain? And very specifically in the way he is a basically a present day earth kid?
(If it helps, the closest I can think of is Midge in Survival, and what happens to him is presented as tragic, and he isn’t the main villain.)
Again, do the same for the mixed stuff with Conrad — thats just all over the place, and people were unhappy with the sort-of-happy ending he got. But the biggest weird thing there was the Doctor making his unpleasant speech in the Tardis. The man who would give The Master the option of redemption, Davros too, is there going out of his way to give both verbal barrels to this guy. Again, present day earth kid.
Then we have the Doctor torturing the terrorist in Eurovision ep, which is more just weird and out of character than anything particularly leftish — if anything it’s a thinly veiled Palestine thing going on.
(I won’t go into all the weird character choices this last year or two, but some of the otherwise excellent Story & The Engine is a bit messed up cos of it.)
But I don’t think the problems largely stem from within the show itself as presented. (Though plenty do.) Though the show is really quite shit at doing social commentary well these days, and probably wouldn’t know an allegory if it bi-regenerated and bit them on the arse. (Let alone understands how some of the stuff they have put in actually comes over. I think there’s some real racial unconscious bias affecting some decisions on Ncutis Doctor, I really do. That or RTD somehow doesn’t *know* about the things he claims to be all about.)
A lot of it comes from the promotion outside the show, stuff like the antagonistic Jynx Monsoon interviews, the ‘Touch Grass’ from Ncuti, the clumsy middle-class, middle-aged overt activism of RTD, the general presentation of things in a TV show as political victories in the ongoing culture war bullshit. And most recently the use of the show to launch…. Er RTDs new relationship with someone forty years his junior. It’s a bit squicky that one — being gay has nothing to do with it, if he was straight it would still be squicky. YMMV.
I’m basically left of centre, pro equality, very very anti-racist, etc and eat al, and some of it makes *me* cringe.
No wonder it’s alienated the part of the audience that things like allegory and commentary are actually supposed to reach.
It’s too much of a front in the culture war bullshit, and too much of being able to see the hand up the back of the puppet. Too much of the puppeteer taking a bow as well.
Thats what’s putting people off.
(If it helps, the closest I can think of is Midge in Survival, and what happens to him is presented as tragic, and he isn’t the main villain.)
Again, do the same for the mixed stuff with Conrad — thats just all over the place, and people were unhappy with the sort-of-happy ending he got. But the biggest weird thing there was the Doctor making his unpleasant speech in the Tardis. The man who would give The Master the option of redemption, Davros too, is there going out of his way to give both verbal barrels to this guy. Again, present day earth kid.
Then we have the Doctor torturing the terrorist in Eurovision ep, which is more just weird and out of character than anything particularly leftish — if anything it’s a thinly veiled Palestine thing going on.
(I won’t go into all the weird character choices this last year or two, but some of the otherwise excellent Story & The Engine is a bit messed up cos of it.)
But I don’t think the problems largely stem from within the show itself as presented. (Though plenty do.) Though the show is really quite shit at doing social commentary well these days, and probably wouldn’t know an allegory if it bi-regenerated and bit them on the arse. (Let alone understands how some of the stuff they have put in actually comes over. I think there’s some real racial unconscious bias affecting some decisions on Ncutis Doctor, I really do. That or RTD somehow doesn’t *know* about the things he claims to be all about.)
A lot of it comes from the promotion outside the show, stuff like the antagonistic Jynx Monsoon interviews, the ‘Touch Grass’ from Ncuti, the clumsy middle-class, middle-aged overt activism of RTD, the general presentation of things in a TV show as political victories in the ongoing culture war bullshit. And most recently the use of the show to launch…. Er RTDs new relationship with someone forty years his junior. It’s a bit squicky that one — being gay has nothing to do with it, if he was straight it would still be squicky. YMMV.
I’m basically left of centre, pro equality, very very anti-racist, etc and eat al, and some of it makes *me* cringe.
No wonder it’s alienated the part of the audience that things like allegory and commentary are actually supposed to reach.
It’s too much of a front in the culture war bullshit, and too much of being able to see the hand up the back of the puppet. Too much of the puppeteer taking a bow as well.
Thats what’s putting people off.
I think it was more progressive in the sense that it was socially liberal, but is now more socially left and somewhat illiberal.
I did find some of the show's chauvinism off-putting (e.g. Isaac Newton), but it's mostly just terrible.
While I enjoyed the Disney specials and seasons, I just started rewatching the Eleventh Doctor episodes on Hoopla, and damn, the show really was just at a whole other level back then. And I really don't mean to say that Russell T. Davies second tenure as showrunner has bad, because I really don't think it has, but it just doesn't come close to Moffat's time.
In case anyone was curious, I just watched The Time of the Angels and Flesh & Stone this afternoon.
In case anyone was curious, I just watched The Time of the Angels and Flesh & Stone this afternoon.
That's the problem. It becomes so much more apparent how much worse Doctor Who has gotten when you rewatch some older episodes. RTD2 is mostly bad with a few outstanding episodes. Moffat's run is pretty good up until Clara joins. You can tell he's running out of steam, and it gets progressively worse from then on. Again, you'll have some stand out episodes, but you start to get more duds than good episodes.
Check out The Girl Who Waited.
The Girl Who Waited (TV story)
The Girl Who Waited was the tenth episode of series 6 of Doctor Who. The moral choice at the centre of the story made it a character study of the relationship between Amy and Rory. The Eleventh Doctor's recklessness toward travelling across history would also be brought into question, and how he...
tardis.fandom.com
LOL, no.
LOOOOOOOL, no.
Heaven Sent/Hell Bent, clear indication of Moffat losing it.
That's the problem. It becomes so much more apparent how much worse Doctor Who has gotten when you rewatch some older episodes. RTD2 is mostly bad with a few outstanding episodes. Moffat's run is pretty good up until Clara joins. You can tell he's running out of steam, and it gets progressively worse from then on. Again, you'll have some stand out episodes, but you start to get more duds than good episodes.
Check out The Girl Who Waited.
The Girl Who Waited (TV story)
The Girl Who Waited was the tenth episode of series 6 of Doctor Who. The moral choice at the centre of the story made it a character study of the relationship between Amy and Rory. The Eleventh Doctor's recklessness toward travelling across history would also be brought into question, and how he...
I thought many of his era's best were Clara and/or Twelve episodes:
"The Snowmen"
"The Rings of Akhaten"
"Hide"
"The Crimson Horror"
"The Day of the Doctor"
"Deep Breath"
"Robot of Sherwood"
"Listen"
"Flatline"
"Dark Water" / "Death in Heaven"
"The Zygon Inversion"
"Heaven Sent" / "Hell Bent"
"The Husbands of River Song"
"The Return of Doctor Mysterio"
"The Pilot"
Quite the opposite. The Tennant specials from 2023 were great aside from the second one. Gatwa's first season had a rough start, but from Boom through to Rogue there were some damn fine episodes. His second season hit the ground running and if it weren't for the finale, that would have been a perfect season.
I think even I would say the second season was medium to good, one or two pretty good, and then the ending retroactively borked it all.
Pretty much, yeah. And even then, the s2 finale isn't terrible, its just aggravatingly annoying because of how the Ncuti era just stopped before its time and so suddenly.
RTD has to rewrite and edit that episode after Gatwa decided to leave after two seasons. RTD expected him to stay on. That was the final nail in the coffin.
You don't have to defend your thoughts on the episode. Disney didn't renew. That says plenty.
Of course, there are one off cases, where the studios were wrong with cancellations such as Alien Nation and Firefly, but generally, they cancel stuff because the audience numbers aren't there.
I'm taking that to mean those episodes are clear indication of him not losing it?
I'll set aside Space Babies because much as I enjoyed it far more than I should have done it's definitely not a great episode. The Devil's Chord is an episode that should have been better than it was, but it was still really enjoyable. You're spot on though, Boom through to Rogue is a superb run, in fact it says something when me (an avowed Moffat fan forever) would actually say I think 73 Yards and Rogue are better episodes than Boom.
Ncuti's second season is perhaps not quite as strong, but there are still some great episodes (Lux, the Well).
I still think if RTD were to remain involved he should just be barred from writing season finales
The Belinda cabinet bit, I thought, part of the reshoots? If not, yeah, its pretty dumb. But I didn't mind the Omega - I did mind that he ate the Rani, who was a fantastic villain I thought.
Probably needs Moff to tell him when to stop going OTT. All of his finales since the Eccleston one (the only completely "normal" one) are extravagant, to say the least. Sometimes they work (like the series 3 and 4 ones, or arguably the series 4B one) but most of the time they're there.I'm taking that to mean those episodes are clear indication of him not losing it?
I'll set aside Space Babies because much as I enjoyed it far more than I should have done it's definitely not a great episode. The Devil's Chord is an episode that should have been better than it was, but it was still really enjoyable. You're spot on though, Boom through to Rogue is a superb run, in fact it says something when me (an avowed Moffat fan forever) would actually say I think 73 Yards and Rogue are better episodes than Boom.
Ncuti's second season is perhaps not quite as strong, but there are still some great episodes (Lux, the Well).
I still think if RTD were to remain involved he should just be barred from writing season finales
I don’t think it is. It does seem emblematic of the much mooted unexpected downgrade of Ruby to part timer in series 2.
The Rani could have been used better, and the bit with Mel giving us a wiki page was silly, but I have to agree — offing one of her was silly. Especially the younger one who is more likely to be able to keep doing the role for longer (who admittedly probably cost more.)
Omega just… well, that was yet another CGI mess with the name of an old villain attached. Even less in common with the originals than Sutekh the year before. (Apparently at one point Tim Daltons Rassilon was going be Omega back when Tennant left the first time.)
Would have been cheaper and more interesting to get Peter Davison to play him tbh. Oh, and ditch everything else about that bit, especially the Ghostbusters-cum-M16-Assault-Rifle nonsense.
The show really did have more money than sense a *lot* of the time these last two years. And both finales lapsed into prolonged endings that felt like they had more in common with BBC Soap Opera ‘Doctors’ than ‘Doctor Who’.
I think it was a rushed mess, that was then rewritten to have even more of a rushed mess stuck on it.
And whilst the way Susan was wasted was criminal, I think we dodged a bullet if we were going to suddenly have timey-wimey origin stories that would fudge up continuity even more than has already been done.
It’s just been low-effort, high budget since the return.
Production design has been pretty good mind you (even if they apparently nicked a fan-design/redesign for the seal of Omega) and more on point with the continuity than the writing.
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