Spoilers Russell T. Davies Returns to Doctor Who as New Showrunner

[Starkers]

I don’t, if I am honest, think the show really had any kind of ethical or political underpinning of any real substance when it came back in 2005. It was pretty bloodless in that regard throughout, beyond basic goodies and baddies.
Captain Jack was not lauded with fanfare for being gay or bi or pan, he was just sort of there and no one much minded.

That's frankly nonsense.

I was on this forum in 2005. I remember all the kerfuffle about RTD's 'gay agenda' and people saying gay rights were being forced down our throats. I remember not very nice comments in the press.

I remember Aliens and London and World War III being seen as very political and I definitely remember Harriet Jones' 'Belgrano moment' in The Christmas Invasion and how that prompted discussion.

 

[jaime]

That's frankly nonsense.

I was on this forum in 2005. I remember all the kerfuffle about RTD's 'gay agenda' and people saying gay rights were being forced down our throats. I remember not very nice comments in the press.

I remember Aliens and London and World War III being seen as very political and I definitely remember Harriet Jones' 'Belgrano moment' in The Christmas Invasion and how that prompted discussion.

Yowza. I was clearly sheltered hanging round the BBC Who site.
Though I don’t remember anything in the press either.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

That's frankly nonsense.

I was on this forum in 2005. I remember all the kerfuffle about RTD's 'gay agenda' and people saying gay rights were being forced down our throats. I remember not very nice comments in the press.

I remember Aliens and London and World War III being seen as very political and I definitely remember Harriet Jones' 'Belgrano moment' in The Christmas Invasion and how that prompted discussion.

I was also on this forum at that time and I agree on this entire accounting.

 

[Rich Watson]

The BBC had to shut their own Doctor Who forum back then due to the overwhelming level of homophobic hatred being spewed out.

 

[Rich Watson]

On a lighter note Russell was spotted randomly sitting in the audience of 'The View' today. (And as per his Instagram he is in New York, so it wasn't a look alike.)

Edit: Whoopi Goldberg invited him. Still angling for the role after all these years!

 

[Turtletrekker]

I was also on this forum at that time and I agree on this entire accounting.

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

 

[The Wormhole]

Even outside this forum, I remember back when it was announced RTD was bringing Doctor Who back, there were many who whined about him turning the show into "a vehicle for his gay agenda."

Hell, even on this forum, I remember during the period after the Eccleston season aired in Britain and everywhere else but before an American airdate was announced (the US didn't get the Eccleston season until sometime in 2006) there was an American who had seen the show through illicit means explaining why it wouldn't work for American audiences. Captain Jack topped the list as did a whole bunch of stupid reasons like Rose and Mickey's relationship ("Americans are not going to understand or accept the fact interracial relationships are apparently a thing in Britain.")

 

[Set Harth]

Even outside this forum, I remember back when it was announced RTD was bringing Doctor Who back, there were many who whined about him turning the show into "a vehicle for his gay agenda."

Ridiculous. You'd think if he wanted a vehicle for his gay agenda, he'd just get a wiener-mobile or something.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Edit: Whoopi Goldberg invited him. Still angling for the role after all these years!

And I'm still hoping for it!

I should revive my old thread about it...

Edit: Or maybe not. It's nearly a decade old!

 

[Steve Roby]

I was on this forum in 2005. I remember all the kerfuffle about RTD's 'gay agenda' and people saying gay rights were being forced down our throats. I remember not very nice comments in the press.

The way I remember it -- and I was forty years old when the new series was announced in 2003, very online, and very interested in Doctor Who by then -- the gay agenda stuff started as soon as RTD was announced as the showrunner. It was just three years after his series Queer as Folk ended. That show was maybe just a little bit controversial, as was his miniseries The Second Coming (ordinary Northern bloke Christopher Eccleston realizes he is the messiah). Davies was not a universally welcomed choice.

(For those who haven't seen it, there were a lot of Doctor Who references in QAF. I'm glad Davies didn't follow the lead of his fictional characters. "What about McGann?" "McGann doesn't count!")

 

[David cgc]

Even outside this forum, I remember back when it was announced RTD was bringing Doctor Who back, there were many who whined about him turning the show into "a vehicle for his gay agenda."

Frequently satirized with complaints about RTD's Welsh agenda, then Moffat's Scottish agenda.

 

[Turtletrekker]

And I'm still hoping for it!

I should revive my old thread about it...

Edit: Or maybe not. It's nearly a decade old!

Your comments about the Rani aren't out of date at all.

To seeing the old comment from Mr Laser Beam.

 

[jaime]

The BBC had to shut their own Doctor Who forum back then due to the overwhelming level of homophobic hatred being spewed out.

I must have missed it. I mean I noticed when it shut down obviously.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Even outside this forum, I remember back when it was announced RTD was bringing Doctor Who back, there were many who whined about him turning the show into "a vehicle for his gay agenda."

Hell, even on this forum, I remember during the period after the Eccleston season aired in Britain and everywhere else but before an American airdate was announced (the US didn't get the Eccleston season until sometime in 2006) there was an American who had seen the show through illicit means explaining why it wouldn't work for American audiences. Captain Jack topped the list as did a whole bunch of stupid reasons like Rose and Mickey's relationship ("Americans are not going to understand or accept the fact interracial relationships are apparently a thing in Britain.")

Man, how far we've com...oh, wait.

 

[CuriousCaitian]

So, in summary, DW's social and political approach hasn't actually changed much at all in the two decades of the revival, in spite of mounting external pressure, especially in the last couple of years? It's remained consistent, even when in partnership with someone, Disney, who have caved and are caving to the pressure, and in spite of being a product of a corporation who, in the UK at least, are contributing to that pressure. It's also remained consistent with the classic era's approach, just evolved and expanded from it.

Far as I can see, surely we should be celebrating that, not wringing our hands over it?

 

[jaime]

So, in summary, DW's social and political approach hasn't actually changed much at all in the two decades of the revival, in spite of mounting external pressure, especially in the last couple of years? It's remained consistent, even when in partnership with someone, Disney, who have caved and are caving to the pressure, and in spite of being a product of a corporation who, in the UK at least, are contributing to that pressure. It's also remained consistent with the classic era's approach, just evolved and expanded from it.

Far as I can see, surely we should be celebrating that, not wringing our hands over it?

I think it has changed in how it’s presented. It’s also possible that whilst the rest of television is also further down a progressive line, then Who feels like it has to be at the pushing edge of that for some reason, particularly under RTD who also wants to be right at that edge again as he was thirty years ago.
And I do think the sexualisation of the central character is quite probably a mistake. Which is particularly annoying, as it was wound back in again under Smith and Capaldi, and definitely Whittaker.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

To seeing the old comment from Mr Laser Beam.

Damn, I hadn't heard about his passing until just now.

 

[Starkers]

Damn, I hadn't heard about his passing until just now.

Me either

 

[Starkers]

So, in summary, DW's social and political approach hasn't actually changed much at all in the two decades of the revival, in spite of mounting external pressure, especially in the last couple of years? It's remained consistent, even when in partnership with someone, Disney, who have caved and are caving to the pressure, and in spite of being a product of a corporation who, in the UK at least, are contributing to that pressure. It's also remained consistent with the classic era's approach, just evolved and expanded from it.

Far as I can see, surely we should be celebrating that, not wringing our hands over it?

I don't think we know for sure why Disney haven't extended the deal. It could be a political issue, could be money, could be viewership, there are a whole heap of potential explanations. Sometimes a new senior manager comes in and wants to distance the company from a particular production for no other reason than it was the last guy's baby and they want to be seen to be a new broom.

 

[CuriousCaitian]

I don't think we know for sure why Disney haven't extended the deal. It could be a political issue, could be money, could be viewership, there are a whole heap of potential explanations. Sometimes a new senior manager comes in and wants to distance the company from a particular production for no other reason than it was the last guy's baby and they want to be seen to be a new broom.

I didn't actually mean Disney dropped Who because of the LGBT+ themes, so sorry for the confusion.

What I meant was, Disney have dropped LGBT+ themes, and especially trans+ themes, from films and shows of theirs in the last couple of years, and Who stood in sharp contrast to that. Maybe the latter was a factor, but other things would undoubtedly have played in, too.

Another way to look at the crux of this issue, that's just occurred to me: being cautious with LGBT+ themes, or eliminating them altogether, especially in the current climate, comes across as trying to appease people who cannot be appeased. They will always want more. Give them an inch, they'll demand a mile. Therefore, give them nothing, and just tell the diverse stories you want to tell. RTD seems to understand that.