No spoilers!
JJ Abrams career is not a reason to rewrite the narrative of Star Trek 2009.
- Thread starter gabby1701
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The Anakin sequence in the Phantom Menace was ridiculous, for sure. But I think the "Mary Sue" aspect is a different dynamic. example, Rei just hops in the Falcon and with zero training flies it like Maverick From Top Gun, or when she magically fixes it in 5 seconds when Han, who knows the ship intimately (for decades) is clueless...
I had this same discussion with others about why Luke works as a character and why Rei doesn't. it has to do with growth, mistakes, learning from them, and applying that knowledge.
Every time Rei fights Kylo, she kicks his ass, with zero light sabre training, she just grabs it and poof she is an expert sword fighter..whereas Luke entered a fight ill prepared and it literally cost him an arm (or hand to be more specific), his arrogance and impatience cost him. Luke character arc is a perfect metaphor for, well, life...
SW: he is a wide eyed kid with an unknown talent who just follows along, by the end he learns that he has a gift and begins his journey to harness it
Empire: he is a petulant angry teen who has skills but no discipline, he is impulsive, impatient and thinks he knows best, and it cost him physically and mentally (the father reveal)
Jedi: he is the wise adult who would rather talk and negotiate and is ready to lay down his sword at any time. He is patient and optimistic and persistent. He has accepted a difficult truth (the father reveal) and wants to reach out to his estranged father
The point here is that this is just good writing, which is a lost art, Rei is a SW character with cheat codes activated, I think that's why people dislike her, even though many WANT to make it about gender/identity, it's not.
Check out the youtube channel Brandon McNulty, he is a NYT selling author and he does a great synopsis on why characters "work" and why they don't.
First of all, it's "Rey."
Second of all, she literally did not. The first time they meet, Kylo Ren knocked her completely out and captured her with ease.
The next time they engage in combat, Kylo Ren is fighting wounded, after having been shot by Chewbacca's bowcaster, a weapon established earlier in the film to be able to kill multiple stormtroopers at once with a single shot.
"Rey", not "Rei", very good, thx (the original post had it spelled as "Rei')
again i think the difference is in the traditional 'hero' archetype which the original trilogy handles perfectly, even the secondary characters like Han, who originally was a ruthless killer (unless Lucas went back and changed that infamous scene with Greedo, thereby completely changing the dynamic)
Luke's piloting skills for example are explained in a couple of lines of dialog by Obi Wan:
"(Your father) He was the BEST star pilot in the galaxy"
so Luke has great genes in this regard, probably better than Sydney Sweeney's :-)
"I understand you've become quite a good pilot yourself"
As long as stuff is established ahead of time, it becomes less fantastical and more credible later, sometimes it only takes one line of dialog.
Therein lays the foundation for his accomplishment later in the movie. And the fact that he blew up the Death Star: others came close, (recall the line: "negative! it just impacted on the surface"), he just finished the job that others nearly did, his 'training' in that context was his piloting skills, not the force, he used the force for timing, only, when you think about it, and he doesn't even survive if not for Han, Luke had a lot of help...
again i think the difference is in the traditional 'hero' archetype which the original trilogy handles perfectly, even the secondary characters like Han, who originally was a ruthless killer (unless Lucas went back and changed that infamous scene with Greedo, thereby completely changing the dynamic)
Luke's piloting skills for example are explained in a couple of lines of dialog by Obi Wan:
"(Your father) He was the BEST star pilot in the galaxy"
so Luke has great genes in this regard, probably better than Sydney Sweeney's :-)
"I understand you've become quite a good pilot yourself"
As long as stuff is established ahead of time, it becomes less fantastical and more credible later, sometimes it only takes one line of dialog.
Therein lays the foundation for his accomplishment later in the movie. And the fact that he blew up the Death Star: others came close, (recall the line: "negative! it just impacted on the surface"), he just finished the job that others nearly did, his 'training' in that context was his piloting skills, not the force, he used the force for timing, only, when you think about it, and he doesn't even survive if not for Han, Luke had a lot of help...
Nope. She states she is a pilot. Same with Luke. We never know what his training is either.
Two, Han knows the ship, but notes the component causing issues. Rey pulls it apart. That component wasn't there when Han owned, as noted in dialog.
Rey says she is a pilot. She has as much credentials as Luke does; established only by dialog.
Which Rey did. So, no issue.
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well Then, these tidbits just reinforce the franchise's blatant ripoff of...um..itself..
probably why there is so much less love for that movie than the original, you will never top the original, though they (i.e. studios/directors) keep trying...
probably why there is so much less love for that movie than the original, you will never top the original, though they (i.e. studios/directors) keep trying...
She was losing their final battle before Leia's intervention.
Luke has experience flying the T-16!
yes he used to bullseye Womp Rats in them, that takes series piloting skills
It hunting them with a speeder really cricket?
The T-16 was his skyhopper, seen fully in the OG only in the form of Luke's model of it, that he's briefly playing with.
Still not cricket.
More baseball-like, really.
Also established by a book.
Who the fuck is trying to top the original?well Then, these tidbits just reinforce the franchise's blatant ripoff of...um..itself..
probably why there is so much less love for that movie than the original, you will never top the original, though they (i.e. studios/directors) keep trying...
Absurd standard is absurd.Star Wars is modern mythology and repeated themes are common within myth telling. Lord of the Rings does this as well.
But, the larger point remains the audience knows very little of Luke or Rey's piloting skills save for lines of dialogue until they show it. But, only Rey must prove her "training" while Luke is accepted.
Bullshit double standard.
well not necessarily, as an example, a single engine propeller pilot? , multi-engine jet pilot?Who the fuck is trying to top the original?
Star Wars is modern mythology and repeated themes are common within myth telling. Lord of the Rings does this as well.
But, the larger point remains the audience knows very little of Luke or Rey's piloting skills save for lines of dialogue until they show it. But, only Rey must prove her "training" while Luke is accepted.
Bullshit double standard.
A single engine Cessna pilot dropped into a 737 might struggle a little, whereas an F-15 pilot might do a little better in that situation
but she certainly has skills
even better than Han Solo, impressive...
Then why does Luke get a pass? A T-16 is not the same as an X-Wing. Again, it would be like your example; a single Cessna pilot dropped in to an F-15. It's absurd. And outflying trained combat pilots!
Yeah, no.
I always wondered how much of the Falcon flying sequences was pilot and how much was auto-pilot, given the tight maneuvers
why does Rey get a 'pass' with her obscene force powers that seemingly surpass even Yoda? Luke couldn't pull his ship out of a swamp and she can freeze a freighter in mid air...
- Force Healing: She can heal herself and others, including a mortal wound she inflicted on Ben Solo.
- Force Dyad: As part of a Force dyad with Kylo Ren, she shares a powerful bond that allows for telepathic communication, shared senses, and a unique balance of light and dark side power between them.
- Force Lightning: As a granddaughter of Emperor Palpatine, Rey can use Force lightning, a dark side power. She accidentally used it once when trying to pull down a First Order transport.
Cheat codes!!!
I mean, I took it as a little intuition, her knowledge of the innards of the wrecks, and a flying experience. It's not like they live in the nicest part of the Galaxy.
She doesn't. Her powers are consistent with Luke.
Luke could fly against combat pilots in squadron maneuvers like it was a non issue. He uses telekinesis and telepathy without training.
It's the same thing. Period.
And that's my last comment since we are wildly off topic and probably should go to the Star Wars side of the board.
respect, you're a good debater
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