Different strokes.
Why Didn't Harry Get Promoted?
- Thread starter Akiraprise
- Start date
It really was. Tom suffered an agonizing loss, and had to work his way through it and learn to love again. Chakotay faced a dreadful loss as well, and in the throes of his grief he had to face the burden if command, with the stalwart Tuvok at his side. Neelix found himself pursuing new horizons as well. Harry not only received acknowledgement, and a well deserved promotion, but he found love in the most unexpected of places. Kes experienced the journey that is life itself, in all its joyful and sometimes tragic glory. And Voyager showed that it could be a series where characters grew and changed and embraced new challenges...
Then, "Before and After" ended.
This. Alternative timelines are great opportunities for exploring different aspects of a universe.
Always? Not when it's about a badly written scenario and a waste of a good character.
He is!
Otherwise we wouldn't have seen him in SNW
The only positive thing with those nuTrek movies was that I got the idea of a new character, Thomas J. Kirk, the grandson of James T. Kirk. The actor who played what was supposed to be Kirk in the NuTrek movies looked like a buddy I had in school whose name was Thomas.
It was just stupid to bring him back that way. TNG already had that torch from the start when the ship was named Enterprise.
That could have been a better option.
You're absolutely right here about Gowron. A great character who should have remained Klingon Chancellor.
I have to agree with that, even if I did sympathize with Garak's action as such.
But obviously it was possible to bring back Weyoun or at least a new clone of Weyoun in some recent books and that would solve that problem.
Otherwise I agree, Weyoun was or is a great character.
Here I have to bring up Kes too who was humiliated and destroyed in the most possible ways for no reason at all. Why bring back a character who they had done everything to make people forget only to destroy her in the worst possible ways.
And be happy that you never have read the book in which Garak was destroyed and killed off. It was horrible.
When I criticized that book and the author's actions at the TrekLit page, I was criticized for basing my statement on a memory Beta review. So when i found the book in a shop for bargain books and used books, I bought it.
It was more horrible than I could ever have imagined.
First I was going to burn it. But since it is against my principles to burn books, something I consider a horrible act, I just went back to the shop and put it back on the shelf. Since I had paid a rather small sum for the alrwady used book, I saw no reason to be greedy.
Some nonths later when i visited the shop again, it was gone. I feel sorry for the one who bought it.
Fortunately they didn't. They realized their mistake and persuaded Nimoy to come back.
You are absoulutely right about that.
Most likely they wouldn't have happened without Spock.
I can see your point here. Stories with alternate timelines can be interesting if they are well -written.
The biggest problem is that the NuTrek producers overdid it. I mean, what was it? Thre movies taking place in an alternate timeline!
They weren't good either and I didn't like the actors.
It was many different timelines.
Every time Kes arrived in the past, she created a divergence.
Kes never visited a point in her own history, where they were already expecting her, until after she bounced off her own conception and started moving forward in time.
^ Entirely correct. But for the most part, they were subdivisions of a single alternate history, one where the year of hell took place, Janeway was dead, Chakotay was captain, Kes married Tom and grew old on Voyager, Neelix was security, et cetera. A timeline that, for all its warts (coughLinnis/Harrycough), featured characters who loved and lost and embraced new challenges. Not one that was so change-resistant, they couldn't even scare up a hollow pip for Harry.
Plot twist Harry's promotions in Before and After took place in 2378 and 2379 so he still spent 7 years as an ensign in that timeline too. Tom had been promoted to full lieutenant then lieutenant commander, busted down to ensign and worked his way back up to lieutenant commander in that time.
Yes, always.
Um, what? Spock in SNW has nothing to do with being replaceable. He served with Pike.
A positive is a positive i suppose.only positive thing with those nuTrek movies was that I got the idea of a new character, Thomas J. Kirk, the grandson of James T. Kirk. The actor who played what was supposed to be Kirk in the NuTrek movies looked like a buddy I had in school whose name was Thomas.
So you mean that they could have killed off the whole TNG team or only Picard and Riker and the series would still have been popular and good to watch?
I don't think so.
If Spock never had returned after TWOK, the rest of the TOS movies had never been made and if SNW had been made, I doubt that Spock would have been in it.
Always look on the briiiiiiiiight side of life!
You keep throwing up popular as though that makes a good story.
Popularity =/= good story.
Well, that's an odd thing to say. At the time the third film was made it was not assumed Nimoy was coming back or that Spock was coming back. There was no expectation of Spock's return and if he did it might not be the earlier Spock. It can absolutely be done.
This is a rather black and white view of this character.
Why I enjoy TOS and the Kelvin films-optimism in the face enduring hardship.Always look on the briiiiiiiiight side of life!
You guys should probably do this discussion privately. Pretty astray of the topic here.
^ Probably. The positive and negative aspects of AU's or killing off characters is certainly a worthwhile discussion.
Nah. When the year of hell ended, the conmand structure was sagging due to all the fatalities. To shore it up, Chakotay promoted Tuvok to commander and first officer, Tom to lieutenant, and Harry to JG. With security disproportionately depleted, he allowed Neelix to sign on as a security crewman.
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Yet he never let Tuvok wear red...clearly a conspiracy against him for being a spy.
We can't have that though. That would be drama. Just like Chakotay and Paris burying the hatchet so fast.
Maybe Tuvok was erythrophobic. That is to say, he had an irrational fear of the color red. That's also why he didn't put on a red uniform in "Resolutions", despite his status as acting captain. Chakotay was just accommodating his colleague's idiosyncrasies.
Honestly, I think that we have come as far as we can come in this debate since we seem to disagree on almost everything.
But I just can't stand meaningless destruction of favorite characters. it has been too much of that and it has damaged my interest for Star Trek, even for the books.
I guess that it would be a good idea.
it actually is due to the fact that too many good characters have been destroyed for no reason at all. Just meaningless wasting of potential.
Fortunately, Year Of Hell was just an illusion or whatever one can call it.
I remember watching it back in the days and I didn't like it.
Some years ago, I bought a copy of season 4 mostly because I would like to re-watch Nemesis but also as a possibility to give this season a new chance after all those years.
While skipping The Gift, I got so far as to The Raven when I just lost interest and stopped. Something was missing in this season.
Two years later I got the idea to start watching again and found out that all of the discs except the first one had been ruined by disc rot or what it's called.
Last year, I found a copy of season 4 in a bargain shop. I bought it for a decent sum- and found out that it was unplayable on my DVD-player due to region problems.
Maybe watching anything beyond season 3 isn't just meant to be.
In the prime timeline, the year of hell was deleted by the Big Red Reset Button. Yes, it worked veey well there, but they used it way too much, in situations where it didn't work. Even at the end of the series. That's why the "Harry the eternal ensign" trope still exists: if the Endgame timeline had been canon, it was debunked.
In the B&A timeline, the year of hell actually happened. Janeway was one of the many casualties. Hence, Captain Chakotay, Lieutenant Kim, and Security Officer Neelix.
I hope that you can see "Year of Hell". IMHO, it was Voyager's best episode.Two years later I got the idea to start watching again and found out that all of the discs except the first one had been ruined by disc rot or what it's called.
Last year, I found a copy of season 4 in a bargain shop. I bought it for a decent sum- and found out that it was unplayable on my DVD-player due to region problems.
Maybe watching anything beyond season 3 isn't just meant to be.
"immortal" Anorax was aboard that ship for two hundred years, where he changed the timeline hundreds if not thousands of times between Scientific Method and Year of Hell. Although everything we saw from Day one is from out of the new time line created after the resolution of Year of Hell.
When it comes to the B&A timeline, I'm happy that nothing of it happened inh the real timeline.
The events in it were horrible. What was exciting and interesting in it was the flashbacks to Kes's life before Voyager but that's all.
And i'm not gonna go into the relationship between Linnis and Harry here.
Honestly, i did watch Year Of Hell many years ago. I didn't like it then and I don't think that my opinion would change if I watch it now.
