Why Didn't Harry Get Promoted?

[Takeru]

If that's how promotion is viewed then I guess it is pointless.
I can't even begin to fathom this.

Neither can I personally but the shows keep telling us humanity has changed so apparently they do even if Harry apparently didn't. Maybe his unevolvedness is the reason for his lack of promotions.

Agree to disagree.

Fine with me, we should move on and discuss truly important things like Tom and Harry being a better pairing than Tom and B'Elanna.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But Harry was rewarded, he got to be on the bridge, attend senior staff meetings, he had the captain's ear almost any time he wanted, he got to design and build the astrometrics lab, he was on away teams all the time, he was in command of the bridge during the night shift (which is a big deal even if Harry insists it's just the night shift).
He already had one of the most prestigious jobs on the ship, it didn't get much better than that so what's the point of a promotion other than stroking Harry's ego which is something we're told humanity has moved past.

Of course he could have been promoted, that wouldn't have bothered me but the lack of a promotion doesn't bother me either because I don't see the downside of remaining an ensign.


That's not how a message board works. People who are unbothered can post here just as much, if you want to be bothered without others voicing different opinions, write a blog.

We know that higher Rank equals larger bedroom size, but higher rank probably equals more Holodeck time.

The only other way to get a larger bedroom, is cohabitation.

If Tom secured 5 girlfriends who all got along, and they shared him peacefully, this hexad would have a living space the size of half a football field.

 

[fireproof78]

Neither can I personally but the shows keep telling us humanity has changed so apparently they do even if Harry apparently didn't. Maybe his unevolvedness is the reason for his lack of promotions.

Riker, Eddington and Picard also must be unevolved.

Fine with me, we should move on and discuss truly important things like Tom and Harry being a better pairing than Tom and B'Elanna.

Disagree. Tom and Harry lack depth.

 

[Oddish]

Fine with me, we should move on and discuss truly important things like Tom and Harry being a better pairing than Tom and B'Elanna.

Disagree. Tom and Harry lack depth.

There are problems with that pairing...
1. Tom and Harry are straight. I wouldn't have paired Stamets with a female character, even when Culber was presumed dead: it's not his preference. Same here.
2. Tom is the dominant member of the two. Call me woke (I'll laugh at you and so will pretty much everyone else here), but I think the best pairings are equal ones.

It would have really been awesome if Harry had turned up wearing Tom's lost pip in "Thirty Days". It would have given their relationship a bit of a shake-up. And someone still would have been the ensign.

 

[Ragitsu]

It is a balancing act.

 

[Oddish]

It doesn't have to be. Once TNG was down to its seven core members, they had no one below the rank of lieutenant. Ditto with DS9, which had a captain, three LCDR's (or equivalent), a lieutenant, and a noncom. VOY would have done fine with Harry as a LTJG. And if you need a bottom on the totem pole, just give Seven or Neelix a uniform. Neelix rocked the gold in "Before and After", and in "Relativity"... blue might have been a cool color, but Seven was just plain hot in it.

And in any case, the "naive ensign" idea was fine for Season 1, OK for Season 2, and pointless afterward. Competent showrunners would have found a new way to develop him. Alas for Harry, they were doing DS9.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Maybe if he'd been sucked through a hole in space during an experimental test of bringing the crew back and couldn't be returned to Voyager, he might have finally been promoted.

 

[Ragitsu]

It doesn't have to be.

I meant that there is a balancing act between...

1. Mentioning that someone has held a grievance for what is perceived to be (if not actually) an inordinate amount of time.

and

2. Simply allowing others to discuss whatever topic they wish, be it fun, functional or, yes, frustrating.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I suppose you're still straight if you make out with a cow, your cousin, or the dead, so long as your tumble buddy appears to be the other gender.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It doesn't have to be. Once TNG was down to its seven core members, they had no one below the rank of lieutenant. Ditto with DS9, which had a captain, three LCDR's (or equivalent), a lieutenant, and a noncom. VOY would have done fine with Harry as a LTJG. And if you need a bottom on the totem pole, just give Seven or Neelix a uniform. Neelix rocked the gold in "Before and After", and in "Relativity"... blue might have been a cool color, but Seven was just plain hot in it.

And in any case, the "naive ensign" idea was fine for Season 1, OK for Season 2, and pointless afterward. Competent showrunners would have found a new way to develop him. Alas for Harry, they were doing DS9.

I. In Asterix comics, Juslius Caesar’s palace guards where all Centurions.

2. In the West Wing, Jed's official Doctor when Rizzo wasn't cooking the books and defrauding the America People was an Admiral... YEAH... TRUMP couldn't get someone like that to lie unabashedly about his poor health, so they went with Doctor Ronnie and his magic prescription pad.

 

[Oddish]

Maybe if he'd been sucked through a hole in space during an experimental test of bringing the crew back and couldn't be returned to Voyager, he might have finally been promoted.

If he'd had the good sense to embrace his good fortune, probably. He would have had to get caught up on the runabout design his alternate self (who presumably no longer exists) created, and wait for the whole "contacted a former Maquis" business blew over. But yeah.

And consider this... Harry is not around to bug Tuvok about the Vidiians. Voyager zooms homeward unopposed, finds that wormhole and those Ferengi. The ever-logical Tuvok orders Tom to fly Voyager through it. Harry is there to greet his comrades when Voyager returns. Meanwhile, Janeway and Chakotay spend the next 80 years happily shagging and raising rug rats on New Earth.

I meant that there is a balancing act between...

1. Mentioning that someone has held a grievance for what is perceived to be (if not actually) an inordinate amount of time.

and

2. Simply allowing others to discuss whatever topic they wish, be it fun, functional or, yes, frustrating.

Ah. I stand corrected.

I suppose you're still straight if you make out with a cow, your cousin, or the dead, so long as your tumble buddy appears to be the other gender.

Cows and corpses, you're a sicko regardless of the gender of your "partner". As for cousins, that was pretty commonplace for a number of years. But none of that is true of Harry or Tom. They simply prefer women.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Cows and corpses, you're a sicko regardless of the gender of your "partner". As for cousins, that was pretty commonplace for a number of years. But none of that is true of Harry or Tom. They simply prefer women.

Well...

 

[Takeru]

There are problems with that pairing...
1. Tom and Harry are straight.

Are they? Their sexuality was never stated, that we've only seen them with women is not proof they're straight.

 

[Oddish]

Well...

Point for you, even though the cow was not intentional and Ballard wasn't dead anymore. But it was good for a laugh, and now I can paste that cow shot anywhere I want.

And it doesn't change the fact that Harry was an outstanding officer who spent six years providing top-grade service. In the Alpha Quadrant, he could easily have made lieutenant commander. He certainly deserved LTJG pips.

Are they? Their sexuality was never stated, that we've only seen them with women is not proof they're straight.

There's such a thing as a preponderance of the evidence.

Sexuality of all stripes, as long as it involves consenting adult sentients, seems to be the norm in Trek. So I don't see why either Tom or Harry would see the need to be "in the closet".

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Point for you, even though the cow was not intentional and Ballard wasn't dead anymore. But it was good for a laugh, and now I can paste that cow shot anywhere I want.

And it doesn't change the fact that Harry was an outstanding officer who spent six years providing top-grade service. In the Alpha Quadrant, he could easily have made lieutenant commander. He certainly deserved LTJG pips.

Was certainly only meant for a laugh.

And yes Harry certainly earned it of course if one were to consider TATV canon verbatim then Hoshi and Travis get an even worse deal.

Janeway may have wanted everyone stationary for a stable status quo but what's the excuse for them?

 

[Farscape One]

Was certainly only meant for a laugh.

And yes Harry certainly earned it of course if one were to consider TATV canon verbatim then Hoshi and Travis get an even worse deal.

Janeway may have wanted everyone stationary for a stable status quo but what's the excuse for them?

Travis and Hoshi... might have been an error in that holodeck program.

It would help explain why Reed, Hoshi, and Travis during the ceremony when they were seated acted as if one of their closest comrades of 10 years didn't just get killed.

 

[Oddish]

And yes Harry certainly earned it of course if one were to consider TATV canon verbatim then Hoshi and Travis get an even worse deal.

Yes they did. And let's not forget Boimler on LD... he got reduced from LTJG to ensign for no good reason. Yes, it was rectified later, but still a demotion.

And... how about that non-paranoid android? Data saved the Federation from disaster twice in a year, while Deanna took a dozen tries to kill a hologram of Geordi. Who deserved to be a commander more?

Janeway may have wanted everyone stationary for a stable status quo but what's the excuse for them?

Travis and Hoshi... might have been an error in that holodeck program.

My head canon is that by 2161, many of the crew had gone their separate ways. Hoshi was back on Earth, Phlox had returned to his family, and Travis was probably first officer on one of the new Warp 6 ships. When assembling his holodeck program, Riker just added them in because they were with Archer during the most critical parts of his mission. Hence them looking the way they did in 2155.

Riker was using the holoprogram to clear his head, not experience an accurate recreation.

 

[fireproof78]

And it doesn't change the fact that Harry was an outstanding officer who spent six years providing top-grade service. In the Alpha Quadrant, he could easily have made lieutenant commander. He certainly deserved LTJG pips.

Ultimately it comes down to this. His service is exemplary but apparently not so exemplary that he should be acknowledged for his work.

No, that's not ego. If the purpose of rank within Starfleet is the appropriate distribution of responsibilities then acknowledging success and the work put in to better oneself and the crew you work with is consistent with a reflection in rank. Otherwise, aspiring to captain, like so many have, is meaningless because you'll get no acknowledgement unless the captain deins to notice you.

 

[Oddish]

Ultimately it comes down to this. His service is exemplary but apparently not so exemplary that he should be acknowledged for his work.

The evidence does not support that claim.
- Janeway states to Harry that he has exceeded all her expectations.
- Chakotay says that he has a spotless record.
- Chakotay also says he's one of their best people.
- In one alternate timeline, his colleague says that he can make lieutenant after only 8 months. In a second, he's a full lieutenant after 7 years of service. And in a third, he's a captain.
- And he seems to be the person the crew goes to when something difficult needs to be done: the Drlta Flyer, the Warp 10 shuttle, Seven's lab, and refitting Alice to name a few.


It's interesting... Memory Alpha states that his canonical rank is now lieutenant, due to the matter of those panels on the Voyager-A, invisible by normal viewers. I do have to wonder if the animators would have been ordered to delete them if they had been found before the episode was released.

 

[Farscape One]

How about this for a barometer...

Even LOWER DECKS had each of them go from Ensign to Lt. j.g. in about 3 years. And NONE of them were department heads.