What is your opinion of season 3 as a whole?

[Leo Walsh]

JJ Abrams fairly also has a good tv list, more acclaimed and remembered than any streaming trek and somewhat on par with whedon.

Fringe
Lost
Alias
Westworld

All the shows at the height of their powers were some of the best of their era. SNW leans more good CW. JJ Abrams shows were good enough to be and dominate prime time TV like ABC. I am not sure SNW would have survived on ABC or CBS, it would have been booted to CW like Supergirl.


I think this is why JJ became famous. he was mostly a tv guy that did good work.

Now as for his trek, they are movies so not the best comparison but if we were to try, I don't think it is close. Star Trek 2009, most of STID and Beyond in terms of characters, casting, acting, sci-fi, stakes is far superior to SNW and it is not close.

JJ trek even beats SNW in romance and also the casting of Chris Pine as Kirk was excellent, the casting of Karl Urban as Bones was perfection, no casting of SNW has been that close to perfection compared to their TOS Counterparts. Quinto also gives a better take on Spock than Peck and I don't even think this is one is up for argument but would be happy too.

Let me just also say if they ever make a year one series, I would not be surprised if they recast Paul Wesley. There is no doubt the writers must known that a significant amount of talk that say he is miscast. I do not also feel Paul also cannot carry a show.

Also JJ Abrams knews how to write greta female tv characters without the expense of making the men look weak and pathetic somethinHasg SNW has failed at and something that JJ Trek succeeded in.

JJ Abrams picked up a check for Westworld. As for the others...meh.

Has nothing to do with SNW.

But anyone who thinks the nuTrek movies were well-written or examples of "real science fiction" is hard to take seriously criticizing SNW.

 

[HauntRod]

JJ Abrams fairly also has a good tv list, more acclaimed and remembered than any streaming trek and somewhat on par with whedon.

Fringe
Lost
Alias
Westworld

Meh. Fringe was great. Never cared for the rest.

Star Trek 2009, most of STID and Beyond in terms of characters, casting, acting, sci-fi, stakes is far superior to SNW and it is not close.

Maybe in your opinion. I'd argue SNW does a far superior job in most cases I say this as a fan of the JJ films.

JJ trek even beats SNW in romance and also the casting of Chris Pine as Kirk was excellent,

Haha, no. SNW beats the tar out of the JJ films in terms of romance. As for Pine, he's fine, but nothing spectacular.

the casting of Karl Urban as Bones was perfection

This I'll agree with.

no casting of SNW has been that close to perfection compared to their TOS Counterparts.

In your opinion. I think one of SNW's greatest strengths is its cast.

Quinto also gives a better take on Spock than Peck and I don't even think this is one is up for argument but would be happy too.

I'll agrue it. Peck does a stellar job.

Let me just also say if they ever make a year one series, I would not be surprised if they recast Paul Wesley.

They won't.

There is no doubt the writers must known that a significant amount of talk that say he is miscast.

A highly vocal minority is best left ignored.

I do not also feel Paul also cannot carry a show.

Funny, considering he's already been the lead in a show that lasted longer than any Trek series.

Also JJ Abrams knews how to write greta female tv characters without the expense of making the men look weak and pathetic something SNW has failed at and something that JJ Trek succeeded in.

Wtf are you on about? I'd love to hear how the men in SNW are made to look pathetic and weak. You've mentioned this before. This feels more like a you issue, rather than a problem with the show.

Pelia is just a bad add on, she brings nothing to the show.

She fine. She adds humour and levity.

Many weird choices have gone on with the casting. for instance Jess Bush is too good to play chapel as we knew her from TOS and Paul is too bad to play kirk.

Paul is great and only gets better with each appearance. He becomes more and more like the Kirk we know.

TOS Scotty and kirk could be brothers, the actors from TOS had similar likeness even body types and looked around the same age range.

Yeah, not seeing it. They looked nothing alike.

I do not think making her an unlikeable and naccaistic character was the answer to the cardboard counterpart.

They made her feel like an actual character and human being.

Wesley may be doing ''fine'' as Kirk but I can call it now, if there is a year one. I think they will recast him as Kirk.

Highly doubtful. IF they made a Year One series as a continuation of SNW, it'll be Paul Wesley.

You need charisma and screen presence to lead a tv show. Wesley does not have it and this is not the first time it has happened.

Maybe to you. I think he's knocking it out of the park. His on screen chemistry with Peck is perfection.

 

[Leo Walsh]

A lot of fans like Urban's performance too much, IMO. It consists of a caricature of DeForest Kelley channeling the anger of Donald Duck.

 

[gabby1701]

Just watched episode two and Chapel is a digusting person. A really horrible character who is unsalvageable for me.

Bingo and yet some are still doing mental gymnastics to justify the characterzation.

TOS Chapel may have been cardboard character but her good outweigh her bad compared to SNW Chapel.

I think SNW is in desperate need for more male input.Many of the story lines in season 3 is just revisionist bad modern day feminist that failed on every level. Chapel been the biggest coletral damage?

to the person that said JJ Trek is worse, please show me any part of jj trek that had a female character as awful as SNW chapel?

Uhura, Carol, Jaylah, Amanda.

Meh. Fringe was great. Never cared for the rest.

Maybe in your opinion. I'd argue SNW does a far superior job in most cases I say this as a fan of the JJ films.

Haha, no. SNW beats the tar out of the JJ films in terms of romance. As for Pine, he's fine, but nothing spectacular.

This I'll agree with.

In your opinion. I think one of SNW's greatest strengths is its cast.

I'll agrue it. Peck does a stellar job.

They won't.

A highly vocal minority is best left ignored.

Funny, considering he's already been the lead in a show that lasted longer than any Trek series.

Wtf are you on about? I'd love to hear how the men in SNW are made to look pathetic and weak. You've mentioned this before. This feels more like a you issue, rather than a problem with the show.

She fine. She adds humour and levity.

Paul is great and only gets better with each appearance. He becomes more and more like the Kirk we know.

Yeah, not seeing it. They looked nothing alike.

They made her feel like an actual character and human being.

Highly doubtful. IF they made a Year One series as a continuation of SNW, it'll be Paul Wesley.

Maybe to you. I think he's knocking it out of the park. His on screen chemistry with Peck is perfection.

This post Needs more depth in explanation like SNW does with its sci-fi, here let me help backed by fans feed back and overall critical reception. Do forgive some of my mistakes as I am dyslexic.

1. Alias and Lost were very critically acclaimed with mostly good ratings and many award wins. They even earned a place in pop culture. This is the truth even if you did not care about the show but we have to still count it in JJ Abrams work.

2. LOL, people keep up saying SNW is the best trek of this nu trek era but they always fail to explain why. I call this a bad narrative that is out there about JJ Abrams than the actual reality of what we have seen.

Yeah, it is my opinion that SNW pales next to kelvin trek but unlike you I can give credible reasons that can be proven by metrics, reception and research as well as the scenes we have watched in the films and tv show. Also grok A.I overview helps here as well even though I am not the biggest fan of A.I

Chris Pine is undoubtedly a better Kirk because he has the charisma, the screen presence and is a better actor than Paul, SNW would have fared better is Pine played Kirk on the show. Chris got praise of this all across the boards. Paul is not getting the same praise or acclaim.

3. I cannot even begin with Ethan Peck’s Spock, I think critics like TV guide and fans on reddit or comic forums tearing his character to shred for been a joke, a horny boy and a needy child is enough. All these things true though we see it on the show.

By star trek lore , I feel it will be the worst crime ever to justify how ethan peck spock behaves compared to Quinto Spock, who was indeed a worthy successor of Nimoy.Peck is not even a Vulcan on the show. he is more emotionally weak than the actual human men and seem to have more sex than the actual human men even though sex by vulcan tradition is a very sacred practice.

I will need someone to give reasons how SNW Spock is better than Kelvin Spock based on TOS Spock characterization. No one has yet to because no good point exists.

4. Kelvin Uhura is a realistic female character like her TOS counterpart. We know what her job is and she does it and she is never shown to be constantly better than others. she also treats spock's better and respect kirk as captain.

Let’s compare that to the overpowered SNW Females were nurses are doing the job of a doctor and the female number 1 can captain the ship better than the actual captain, which leads me to point 5.

5. Bruce Greenwood >>>>>>>Mount. Simply because the writers are failing mount, a criticism of mount is he is not even mostly present on the show, the excuses from the SNW perfect series fans, is that Mount just had a baby, so he was not around for filming does not count much.

Mount has yet to govern with real authority. Can you name any scene from mount in SNW that carried any lasting weight or is as memorable like when Kelvin Pike told Kirk that your father saved many people in few seconds and I dare you to do better?

6. Kelvin trek has a better, fairly executed and more mature romance that fits well in the star trek universe with the spock/uhura pairing. No one can trash this pair after the CW Soap opera we got from spock/laan/chapel/korby. Not to mention kelvin trek did not do toxic relationship in the false pretence of trying to empowering women.

The idea that people are still defending Chapel behaviour in Wedding bells blues or Subspace Rhapsody just tells me everything and as well nothing on what made those episodes good. or why it is even star trek? real star trek? I have seen this more on 90210. Romances in star trek is never toxic even when they suck like Troi and Worf

7. More importantly , kelvin trek all 3 film still maintain its genre in science fiction and action adventure. We cannot say that about SNW as it is clear some of the writers are not fans of sci-fi, they are more high fantasy fans who likes buffy and riverdale.

8. Ah yes and one of the real issues that has harmed this show like the last episode were Batel becomes a god and Pike just does assist.The men in SNW are constantly shown to be weaker than the women, in a way that is unrealistic.

how many times does Chapel need to humiliate Spock? How many times was tpring dictating what she wants in their relationship? Why does Dr Mengba do less medicine than Chapel and why does Pike always need to second guess himself and ask Una for advice every time and the few times Una takes the captain chair, she does it with no second guessing and even better than Pike.

9. Do go back and watch Klevin trek even the first film and see how the Kirk and Spock or Bones and Kirk plays out, heck even Sulu and Chekov piloting the ship. The movie is men heavy that gives the film more extra weight while been respectful to the female characters too and letting them also be heroines. it is balanced.

in SNW we constantly see about 4-6 female characters of the bridge and no men at all sometimes only Spock. how is this realistic? Star Trek was built on good and positive masculinity, this is why Picard and TOS Kirk and even DS9 Sisko are very revered as captains both in the trek universe and by fans. SNW Pike with the way he is written, he would not be getting near them.

10. Finally another criticism of SNW is the lack of on-screen chemistry with Peck and Paul. I think it was yahoo or ign review that said Wesley is plays short on the role that his scenes with Peck lack any memorability for what is yet to come. Peck has more chemistry with Pike.

Anyone trying to convince me or the average fan base that Paul is a better Kirk than chris pine, I would tell them they will fare better telling me Henry Cavill was a better Superman than Christopher reeves.What do both paul and henry have in common? Little charisma and stiff to bland acting skills.

 

[Leo Walsh]

You do try to speak for a lot of people who aren't here. But it doesn't matter - JJTrek's still lame in many important ways - mainly as science fiction, but certainly as Star Trek.

 

[gabby1701]

You do try to speak for a lot of people who aren't here. But it doesn't matter - JJTrek's still lame in many important ways - mainly as science fiction, but certainly as Star Trek.

what important ways compared? I have provided depth after my research.
The mainly as science fiction part I would say is false since SNW by season 3 has dived more to fantasy mostly drawing influences from Buffy, Dr Who and also rom com. This is not star trek.


Name one male character in the history of star trek TNG, TOS, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery that has banged 3 women all close to each other in the space of 2 years. This is not star trek.

Heck even ladies men like Kirk and Riker had more class than SNW Spock

name a male character that can date one person for 5 years and make it work without any high school drama? Kelvin trek. That is star trek.

SNW I would even argue is the lest trek series we have had at least I can make the case that Star Trek Discovery is like a misguided take of DS9 with unlikeable characters.

 

[Leo Walsh]

Name one male character in the history of star trek TNG, TOS, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery that has banged 3 women all close to each other in the space of 2 years. This is not star trek.

Yeah, PineKirk sure wasn't into Two Cat-tailed Chicks At The Same Time.


Seriously, prudishness is not good criticism.

 

[gabby1701]

I want to speak in defence of Chapel. She is emotionally confused, not narcissistic. When she started dating Spock, their relationship, for her, was still new, but for Spock it was something much deeper. She split up with him before leaving the ship but it was rather careless of her not giving anyone a heads up that she had a new beau.

Very early on, it was established that Chapel uses avoidance techniques to cope with her emotional confusion. She's fairly consistent, character-wise: flawed, emotionally inconsistent, but not horrible.

I like that they have given her a skill set consistent with a biomedical degree. I dislike that she is sometimes treated as a senior crew member instead of a civilian researcher and that she sometimes acts as M'Benga's deputy instead of another qualified junior doctor.

Also remember that she pines for Spock for years and he rebuffs her. His comments to T'Pring in Amok Time are possibly referring to Chapel. I actually love the symmetry they've created.

I am truly curious how chapel will fare in trek lore when SNW is over, unlike a female like Uhura TOS,Kelvin Trek and SNW. I think the reception of uhura across the board is solid to good.

i.e uhura will always be a beloved character and not just because she was the first black woman that was not a maid on tv and while I think SNW uhura is a departure from TOS Uhura as well, I really wished they had not used iconic characters like uhura or kirk so early.

I knew snw at some point will begin to slow down after 2 or 3 seasons. this would have been the perfect time to bring in the big names like Kirk and uhura to give the series fresh blood and make fans sort of interested again but in season 1 they have used almost all the main iconic characters.


As TOS and SNW Chapel, although I will not say they are hated but they are both negatively received for different reason, so I will say Chapel is now a polzaring character in trek lore like michael burnham. (ah....both are from the streaming star trek era)


chapel's narcissism is because of how she treats spock and constantly disrespect and humiliates him and does all the break ups with no care to his feelings or no convincing remorse.


Let me ask those that defend SNW chapel behaviour, let's compare-spock has had romantic encounters in TOS, Novels, Kelvin timeline so how come none of his other love interest treats him like trash like Chapel does in SNW and how come Spock still maintains his vulcaness and never comes off as a weak human child like SNW Spock.

I would even say most of the spock other romances are more intriguing because we see a vulcan trying to date a woman and the different dynamic that plays on human and vulcan been different.


SNW Spock and Chapel felt like two human teenagers in the last year of high school who have had on again and off again relationship for years but the girl chose to end it brashly because she is now in college and knows the relationship will not work.

Maybe this is the writers way of pay back to the dated way women were written in the 1960s.

And this is the flaw, the snw creators wanted to rewrite and retcon deeply a character like Chapel who was yes a card board piece and sometimes a laughing stock that they have turned her to the extreme opposite which also makes her a bad character for different reasons

 

[The Gatekeeper]

J Abrams fairly also has a good tv list, more acclaimed and remembered than any streaming trek and somewhat on par with whedon.

Fringe
Lost
Alias
Westworld

You seem to be selective about which shows of Abrams's you're listing. Specifically, you left out Felicity, which was the first show Abrams created and was arguably just as popular as the ones you listed, having run for the same amount of seasons as Westworld and only one less season than Fringe and Alias. Ah, but I suppose Felicity ruins your argument since it's basically a CW show, having aired on the same network that eventually became The CW, and you can't acknowledge someone you admire like Abrams once did a CW show while derisively referring to SNW as a CW show. For that matter, you're once again idolizing Joss Whedon, and his most popular TV show, Buffy, was also a CW show essentially, having also aired on the network which would someday become The CW..

TOS Chapel had the personality of a cardboard . I do not think making her an unlikeable and naccaistic character was the answer

Then it's a good thing they haven't done that.

Wesley may be doing ''fine'' as Kirk but I can call it now, if there is a year one. I think they will recast him as Kirk.

Yeah, no. One of the reasons Goldsman wants to do Year One is specifically because he likes Paul Wesley's portrayal of Kirk. Recasting him would negate the whole reason for even doing Year One in the first place.

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

A lot of fans like Urban's performance too much, IMO. It consists of a caricature of DeForest Kelley channeling the anger of Donald Duck.

Exactly. Urban was a weak link in the cast because of this.

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

Actually to me she feels like she is being wrote by a male incel who wants to destroy her character because women are bad *cue cardboard laughter*

Da fuq??????

 

[gabby1701]

Yeah, PineKirk sure wasn't into Two Cat-tailed Chicks At The Same Time.

View attachment 49144
Seriously, prudishness is not good criticism.

nah, not this guy. SNW Spock overlaping affairs does not exist in star trek. No male main or supporting character has been written like that and I will explain why in my last paragraph. Kelvin Kirk was not in a relationship or trying to be in one. Pine Kirk just seems like he enjoys sex and girls company.

SNW Spock gets new girlfriends after the next one is barely out of the door.A better comparison will be to Kelvin Spock vs SNW Spock. Spock is also vulcan, the standard is higher.

In star trek lore- sex is sacred and deeply personal to vulcans, they dont even like to talk about pon farr so openly and in all the trek minus a few like say enterprise, and even Trip and Tpol took their time and their development was better than anything we got in SNW

now for my last paragraph

the only reason snw spock sleep with half the women on board is because the writers think Peck is hot and hot guys on tv needs to have sex constantly regardless of if it make sense in the context of the character. they failed with spock in doing this. this is not star trek. it is more rom com.

And mind you I would even argue Quinto is distinguishly more handsome than Ethan Peck.

LOL I just cannot take any argument seriously that defend this while claiming kelvin trek is worse giving also the fact that we barely so TOS Spock have sex, I think they only referenced TOS Spock having sex in the movie like once but he was going through pon farr.

 

[fireproof78]

Da fuq??????

Someone has cut the brakes on this conversation. Somehow SNW Chapel is "destroying" a character who was basically a nurse stereotype and then the Kelvin films do romance better.

Sighs.

Nothing is destroyed.

 

[Pauln6]

Bingo and yet some are still doing mental gymnastics to justify the characterzation.

TOS Chapel may have been cardboard character but her good outweigh her bad compared to SNW Chapel.

I think SNW is in desperate need for more male input.Many of the story lines in season 3 is just revisionist bad modern day feminist that failed on every level. Chapel been the biggest coletral damage?

to the person that said JJ Trek is worse, please show me any part of jj trek that had a female character as awful as SNW chapel?

Uhura, Carol, Jaylah, Amanda.


This post Needs more depth in explanation like SNW does with its sci-fi, here let me help backed by fans feed back and overall critical reception. Do forgive some of my mistakes as I am dyslexic.

1. Alias and Lost were very critically acclaimed with mostly good ratings and many award wins. They even earned a place in pop culture. This is the truth even if you did not care about the show but we have to still count it in JJ Abrams work.

2. LOL, people keep up saying SNW is the best trek of this nu trek era but they always fail to explain why. I call this a bad narrative that is out there about JJ Abrams than the actual reality of what we have seen.

Yeah, it is my opinion that SNW pales next to kelvin trek but unlike you I can give credible reasons that can be proven by metrics, reception and research as well as the scenes we have watched in the films and tv show. Also grok A.I overview helps here as well even though I am not the biggest fan of A.I

Chris Pine is undoubtedly a better Kirk because he has the charisma, the screen presence and is a better actor than Paul, SNW would have fared better is Pine played Kirk on the show. Chris got praise of this all across the boards. Paul is not getting the same praise or acclaim.

3. I cannot even begin with Ethan Peck’s Spock, I think critics like TV guide and fans on reddit or comic forums tearing his character to shred for been a joke, a horny boy and a needy child is enough. All these things true though we see it on the show.

By star trek lore , I feel it will be the worst crime ever to justify how ethan peck spock behaves compared to Quinto Spock, who was indeed a worthy successor of Nimoy.Peck is not even a Vulcan on the show. he is more emotionally weak than the actual human men and seem to have more sex than the actual human men even though sex by vulcan tradition is a very sacred practice.

I will need someone to give reasons how SNW Spock is better than Kelvin Spock based on TOS Spock characterization. No one has yet to because no good point exists.

4. Kelvin Uhura is a realistic female character like her TOS counterpart. We know what her job is and she does it and she is never shown to be constantly better than others. she also treats spock's better and respect kirk as captain.

Let’s compare that to the overpowered SNW Females were nurses are doing the job of a doctor and the female number 1 can captain the ship better than the actual captain, which leads me to point 5.

5. Bruce Greenwood >>>>>>>Mount. Simply because the writers are failing mount, a criticism of mount is he is not even mostly present on the show, the excuses from the SNW perfect series fans, is that Mount just had a baby, so he was not around for filming does not count much.

Mount has yet to govern with real authority. Can you name any scene from mount in SNW that carried any lasting weight or is as memorable like when Kelvin Pike told Kirk that your father saved many people in few seconds and I dare you to do better?

6. Kelvin trek has a better, fairly executed and more mature romance that fits well in the star trek universe with the spock/uhura pairing. No one can trash this pair after the CW Soap opera we got from spock/laan/chapel/korby. Not to mention kelvin trek did not do toxic relationship in the false pretence of trying to empowering women.

The idea that people are still defending Chapel behaviour in Wedding bells blues or Subspace Rhapsody just tells me everything and as well nothing on what made those episodes good. or why it is even star trek? real star trek? I have seen this more on 90210. Romances in star trek is never toxic even when they suck like Troi and Worf

7. More importantly , kelvin trek all 3 film still maintain its genre in science fiction and action adventure. We cannot say that about SNW as it is clear some of the writers are not fans of sci-fi, they are more high fantasy fans who likes buffy and riverdale.

8. Ah yes and one of the real issues that has harmed this show like the last episode were Batel becomes a god and Pike just does assist.The men in SNW are constantly shown to be weaker than the women, in a way that is unrealistic.

how many times does Chapel need to humiliate Spock? How many times was tpring dictating what she wants in their relationship? Why does Dr Mengba do less medicine than Chapel and why does Pike always need to second guess himself and ask Una for advice every time and the few times Una takes the captain chair, she does it with no second guessing and even better than Pike.

9. Do go back and watch Klevin trek even the first film and see how the Kirk and Spock or Bones and Kirk plays out, heck even Sulu and Chekov piloting the ship. The movie is men heavy that gives the film more extra weight while been respectful to the female characters too and letting them also be heroines. it is balanced.

in SNW we constantly see about 4-6 female characters of the bridge and no men at all sometimes only Spock. how is this realistic? Star Trek was built on good and positive masculinity, this is why Picard and TOS Kirk and even DS9 Sisko are very revered as captains both in the trek universe and by fans. SNW Pike with the way he is written, he would not be getting near them.

10. Finally another criticism of SNW is the lack of on-screen chemistry with Peck and Paul. I think it was yahoo or ign review that said Wesley is plays short on the role that his scenes with Peck lack any memorability for what is yet to come. Peck has more chemistry with Pike.

Anyone trying to convince me or the average fan base that Paul is a better Kirk than chris pine, I would tell them they will fare better telling me Henry Cavill was a better Superman than Christopher reeves.What do both paul and henry have in common? Little charisma and stiff to bland acting skills.

I disagree with many of your points. I think the casts of both Abrams Trek and SNW are both great but Abrams characterisation of the characters was poor, except for McCoy. There were a few magical moments where Pine oozed Shatner but for the most part he felt like a college bro's wish fulfilment with almost no connection to the studious tactician of TOS. He was very undeserving of his promotion.

The only Abrams character I was truly unhappy with was Pegg's Scotty, who was portrayed as a mad genius and terrible officer for comedic purposes.

Abrams worst fault was excising almost all the female characters, adding insult to injury by introducing new male characters on top. No Una, no T'Pau, no Winona after she gives birth, Amanda killed, no Rand, almost no Chapel. The fact that you give him kudos for his portrayal of women does suggest that your bar is set quite low (some of his other shows fare better). The Abrams movies are great, entertaining bubble gum movies but they are largely dumb and not great Trek.

The SNW version of Kirk is growing into his TOS character but Scotty misses the target again, endearing but portrayed as about 10 years too young and very naive - almost like the love-child of TOS Scotty and TOS Chekov. Scotty is such a great character, I just don't understand how it's possible to do him wrong twice. Pegg eventually hit the right balance, so maybe Quinn will too.

 

[Leo Walsh]

nah, not this guy. SNW Spock overlaping [sic] affairs does not exist in star trek.

It does. I've watched the episodes.

A little romance and sex and, yeah, anything approaching human behavior improves Trek.

The JJ crew are largely written as empty action figures, led by a Kirk who can't keep it in his pants.

 

[HauntRod]

what important ways compared? I have provided depth after my research.
The mainly as science fiction part I would say is false since SNW by season 3 has dived more to fantasy mostly drawing influences from Buffy, Dr Who and also rom com. This is not star trek.

I'm guessing you must absolutely hate The Original Series.

Name one male character in the history of star trek TNG, TOS, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery that has banged 3 women all close to each other in the space of 2 years. This is not star trek.

Roddenberry would be proud.

Heck even ladies men like Kirk and Riker had more class than SNW Spock

What has Spock done that would be considered classless? Since when was Trek so puritan?

SNW I would even argue is the lest trek series we have had at least I can make the case that Star Trek Discovery is like a misguided take of DS9 with unlikeable characters.

You can argue, but you'd be wrong. IMO.

I am truly curious how chapel will fare in trek lore when SNW is over, unlike a female like Uhura TOS,Kelvin Trek and SNW. I think the reception of uhura across the board is solid to good.

Chapel is a fan favourite character and Jess Bush is awesome.

i.e uhura will always be a beloved character and not just because she was the first black woman that was not a maid on tv and while I think SNW uhura is a departure from TOS Uhura as well, I really wished they had not used iconic characters like uhura or kirk so early.

How dare they give the character of Uhura a little background.

As TOS and SNW Chapel, although I will not say they are hated but they are both negatively received for different reason, so I will say Chapel is now a polzaring character in trek lore like michael burnham. (ah....both are from the streaming star trek era)

She's a complicated character showing a range of emotions. This is not a bad thing. Nor it a character being flawed. It make them human.

how come Spock still maintains his vulcaness and never comes off as a weak human child like SNW Spock.

Because Peck isn't playing TOS Spock. He's playing the character younger, at a point in his life where he is experimenting with his human side.

SNW Spock and Chapel felt like two human teenagers in the last year of high school who have had on again and off again relationship for years but the girl chose to end it brashly because she is now in college and knows the relationship will not work.

That's life. Sometimes that happens with relationships.

 

[gabby1701]

You seem to be selective about which shows of Abrams's you're listing. Specifically, you left out Felicity, which was the first show Abrams created and was arguably just as popular as the ones you listed, having run for the same amount of seasons as Westworld and only one less season than Fringe and Alias. Ah, but I suppose Felicity ruins your argument since it's basically a CW show, having aired on the same network that eventually became The CW, and you can't acknowledge someone you admire like Abrams once did a CW show while derisively referring to SNW as a CW show. For that matter, you're once again idolizing Joss Whedon, and his most popular TV show, Buffy, was also a CW show essentially, having also aired on the network which would someday become The CW..

Then it's a good thing they haven't done that.

Yeah, no. One of the reasons Goldsman wants to do Year One is specifically because he likes Paul Wesley's portrayal of Kirk. Recasting him would negate the whole reason for even doing Year One in the first place.

I forgot Felicity but that show was also quite well received and the hair thing was a staple in the 90s. Also was it not WB then that also had shows like buffy and gilmore girls.

WB was good in chuning out well written acclaimed show like Buffy and Gilmore girls, when it became CW the quality dipped.

the best of star trek should be able to rival HBO or at best the glory days of NBC/ABC/CBS shows.

Sigh..Also I do not idolise Whedon or Abrams, I am just stating the reception of their body of work as accurate as I can.

Lastly I will not put faith in what Goldsman says all this producers and writers job is to always stay positive and optimistic in the media but we do not know what is truly going on behind the scenes

I do doubt paramount will want to poor money to a show if the supposed leading actor has had roughly mixed to negative reception in playing the character.

 

[Pauln6]

I am truly curious how chapel will fare in trek lore when SNW is over, unlike a female like Uhura TOS,Kelvin Trek and SNW. I think the reception of uhura across the board is solid to good.

i.e uhura will always be a beloved character and not just because she was the first black woman that was not a maid on tv and while I think SNW uhura is a departure from TOS Uhura as well, I really wished they had not used iconic characters like uhura or kirk so early.

I knew snw at some point will begin to slow down after 2 or 3 seasons. this would have been the perfect time to bring in the big names like Kirk and uhura to give the series fresh blood and make fans sort of interested again but in season 1 they have used almost all the main iconic characters.


As TOS and SNW Chapel, although I will not say they are hated but they are both negatively received for different reason, so I will say Chapel is now a polzaring character in trek lore like michael burnham. (ah....both are from the streaming star trek era)


chapel's narcissism is because of how she treats spock and constantly disrespect and humiliates him and does all the break ups with no care to his feelings or no convincing remorse.


Let me ask those that defend SNW chapel behaviour, let's compare-spock has had romantic encounters in TOS, Novels, Kelvin timeline so how come none of his other love interest treats him like trash like Chapel does in SNW and how come Spock still maintains his vulcaness and never comes off as a weak human child like SNW Spock.

I would even say most of the spock other romances are more intriguing because we see a vulcan trying to date a woman and the different dynamic that plays on human and vulcan been different.


SNW Spock and Chapel felt like two human teenagers in the last year of high school who have had on again and off again relationship for years but the girl chose to end it brashly because she is now in college and knows the relationship will not work.

Maybe this is the writers way of pay back to the dated way women were written in the 1960s.

And this is the flaw, the snw creators wanted to rewrite and retcon deeply a character like Chapel who was yes a card board piece and sometimes a laughing stock that they have turned her to the extreme opposite which also makes her a bad character for different reasons

Perhaps you mistake is overlooking that these are intentionally younger versions of the characters. SNW Spock grows into no romance Spock because of these terrible SNW experiences and it takes TMP to snap him out of it.

I had a conversation with someone who insisted SNW Chapel was a Mary Sue but refused to acknowledge that Spock was the original Mary Sue because that was justified by his back-story and this is despite me googling a bio-medical degree and pointing out that Chapel was being portrayed as having more expertise than M'Benga in areas associated to her degree and Post-graduate research. Some people have a lot of bias.

Chapel and Spock have already moved on. Maybe you should too!

 

[fireproof78]

the best of star trek should be able to rival HBO or at best the glory days of NBC/ABC/CBS shows.

Why?

Just because we like it doesn't make it the best.

 

[gabby1701]

It does. I've watched the episodes.

A little romance and sex and, yeah, anything approaching human behavior improves Trek.

The JJ crew are largely written as empty action figures, led by a Kirk who can't keep it in his pants.

Sigh...this is where I give substance again that exposes SNW story incompetence to the past trek shows. my pleasure.

the good thing about my post is that I am actually calling and refencinf scenes from every star trek series. This is how I know SNW is lacking as I always thought since many barely reference or make call back to SNW.

Star trek 2009 for example is under 2.5 hours and it covers everything star trek needed to cover in focusing on the 2 main characters.

Lol empty action figures. sure now for the facts.
kirk dealt with the loss of growing up without a father, a theme that was seen through the movie.

spock lost his mum and planet and had to deal with that while also struggling with his human and vulcan side. also for better or worse he had less toxic people in his life who made him a better person like his father.

By the end of the first movie both guys had changed and developed more to their TOS Counterparts . Even Uhura showed more realistic depth and less shallowness than the female lead in SNW and she knew how to stay with one guy.

SNW has had 3 seasons what real stakes kirk and spock faced and they have had more than 30 hours?

goofy jokes , cliche romance and now a puppet episodes are what I will see more as empty in what we expect from real star trek.