Classic episodes now considered "lame" - ?!

[Talos IV]

Of course we all have various opinions of which episodes are good and bad. And some TOS episodes have aged better than others. And The Way to Eden was dated from the get-go, And the Children Shall Lead is widely regarded as abysmal, etc.

But it surprises me to read that episodes that are still among my favorites seem to have lost their appeal. One site I visited recently continues to praise Balance of Terror (and rightfully so -- that episode remains superb) but now has people calling The Menagerie "very, very lame," The Naked Time "idiotic," and Journey to Babel "contrived."

Maybe our tastes simply change over time?

 

[Tosk]

One site I visited recently

Maybe our tastes simply change over time?

Or the contributor to that unnamed site simply has different taste to you.

 

[FredH]

Or, possibly — since at least two of those are standout episodes — the site writer may be doing the “I’m so much more sophisticated than this, yawn” thing that people on the Internet have been doing since it was invented.

 

[I am not Herbert]

Assuming the site writer was not merely saying something he or she didn't believe just to get clicks (always a heroic assumption) and actually believes all this, it is good that they say these things all upfront, so people like me will know that we can comfortably skip their articles without much loss.

 

[Etbj SMY]

Only the first five minutes of NAKED TIME were idiotic.

 

[David cgc]

It's kind of the opposite of your premise, but it always amuses me that the season two TOS Writers' Bible uses a scene from "Balance of Terror" as an example of what not to do. Yeah, look at this cheesy bullshit from *checks notes* one of the top ten best episodes we'll ever make.

A better fit is that a lot of famous fans (like, famous people who are also Star Trek fans, not Star Trek fans who are big in the community) cite seeing "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" as a kid as a kind of mind-blowing parable of how petty and stupid racism is and that an outsider might not even notice the differences between people that seem so fundamental, but most fannish circles consider it over-the-top camp that hits its point with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

 

[Crewman Commander]

Or the contributor to that unnamed site simply has different taste to you.

I'll take it a step further. There's no actual data on display, so there's nothing to see here.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

But it surprises me to read that episodes that are still among my favorites seem to have lost their appeal. One site I visited recently continues to praise Balance of Terror (and rightfully so -- that episode remains superb) but now has people calling The Menagerie "very, very lame," The Naked Time "idiotic," and Journey to Babel "contrived."

Maybe our tastes simply change over time?

Sounds more like this person just has crappy taste.

 

[Shawnster]

Sounds more like this person just has crappy taste.

Or is the person under 30?

How do these episodes play to someone born in the 21st century? Naked Time is quite sanitized by today's TV moral standards.

Even us old timers mock Menagerie for Pike's beep chair. The whole plot hinges on Pike not having access to Steven Hawkings antiquated (by 24th century) speech computer. Or just 1 mind meld with Spock (but that's a plot hole).

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Or just 1 mind meld with Spock (but that's a plot hole).

Spock was the one misleading us about Pike. You want the fox guarding the hen house?

But let's say the Starbase hospital brought in some other telepath. You can't do a mind meld without legal consent, and Pike would beep No because he's incredibly proud and stubborn, and protective of what little autonomy and privacy he has left in that chair.

 

[kaj21206]

Spock was the one misleading us about Pike. You want the fox guarding the hen house?

But let's say the Starbase hospital brought in some other telepath. You can't do a mind meld without legal consent, and Pike would beep No because he's incredibly proud and stubborn, and protective of what little autonomy and privacy he has left in that chair.

Maybe the injury from the delta rays make a mind meld impossible.

 

[Mr. Spook]

Or is the person under 30?

I've been wasting a lot of time on other forums, Reddit for one, and there are a lot of younger fans. A lot of them consider the entire series "cringe." One even wondered how a show this bad could be the basis of a long running franchise.

I do wish more people would watch older TV shows and movies in context of their era, but there you go.

This is also why a lot of younger fans are all over the "remake TOS" thing that gets tossed around. For them it's a chance to enjoy characters from a show they consider too old to tolerate.

 

[Phaser Two]

Heh. Well, whatever that podcaster or writer may have intended, they got a thread started here . . . .

 

[M'Sharak]

One site I visited recently continues to praise Balance of Terror (and rightfully so -- that episode remains superb) but now has people calling The Menagerie "very, very lame," The Naked Time "idiotic," and Journey to Babel "contrived."

Which site was it?

Put that on a list of sites you'll never again need to visit.

Sorted.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

doing the “I’m so much more sophisticated than this, yawn” thing that people on the Internet have been doing since it was invented.

Oh, it's much older than that. Some of us remember when film scores -- with very few exceptions, like Prokifiev's Lieutanant Kije -- never got programmed on concerts, and never got airplay on classical stations, simply because they were film scores. There was a time when people like John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, and James Horner were dismissed as "hacks" (as were Rozsa, Korngold, and Herrmann) because they wrote for film. A time when the ink could still be wet on a piece written for the concert hall, and it could be pushing the envelope on audience accessibility, but if you called it "new music," and it wasn't completely outside that envelope, there were "new music snobs" who would give you a funny look.

Thankfully, time has marched on, most of those who were dismissive of film scores are dead, and a very high percentage of working orchestral musicians became classically-trained musicians because of John Williams.

 

[FredH]

There was a time when people like John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, and James Horner were dismissed as "hacks" (as were Rozsa, Korngold, and Herrmann) because they wrote for film.

(Tangential comment: The other day I rewatched The 7th Voyage of Sinbad simply because the music popped into my head and I just couldn’t get it out. Still can’t, actually.)

 

[I am not Herbert]

I've been wasting a lot of time on other forums, Reddit for one, and there are a lot of younger fans. A lot of them consider the entire series "cringe." One even wondered how a show this bad could be the basis of a long running franchise.

I do wish more people would watch older TV shows and movies in context of their era, but there you go.

This is also why a lot of younger fans are all over the "remake TOS" thing that gets tossed around. For them it's a chance to enjoy characters from a show they consider too old to tolerate.

In fairness to these (relative) youngsters, TOS (like other shows of its era) is very different from contemporary television, even contemporary Star Trek. Acting, writing, lighting, pacing, music, editing, overall series structure is completely different from what is being made today, and that is leaving aside fundamental societal differences like the depiction of gender roles, casting diversity, etc. I suppose I agree with these people that the differences are so stark as to make the shows difficult to enjoy-- only it's the newer shows that I find difficult to enjoy because of these differences (apart from the societal differences). 8/10 shows I've tried the last several years have left me feeling blasted and agitated after one or two episodes. I'm hardly surprised that people who like those shows would dislike, or even scorn, TOS and its ilk.

 

[The Friendly Jewish Ghost]

How do these episodes play to someone born in the 21st century? Naked Time is quite sanitized by today's TV moral standards.

In what way? Would today's young people expect the characters affected by the disease to go on murder sprees? To have sex orgies?

 

[The Salt Umpire]

In what way? Would today's young people expect the characters affected by the disease to go on murder sprees? To have sex orgies?

Murder sprees AND sex orgies!

 

[DonIago]

Murder sprees AND sex orgies!

You can't have one without the other!