I realised: I miss external Enterprise shots... and ad breaks

[AntonyF]

It finally clicked to me last night. It was when I was watching a Voyager episode... I had a bad day I just wanted some comfort blanket nostalgia (wanted to watch the Cloud, started Phage by accident... that ain't comfort blanket...)

But even with its 4:3 frame and what now feels at times claustrophobic framing and reaction shots, I kept feeling this sense of space. Exploration. Movement.

Strange New Worlds I keep using the word insular about its stories. I have no sense of them really going places even though they clearly are going to different places. This is made worse I think by the fact the bridge doesn't feel the hub of SNW like other shows did, they use the medbay and briefing room a lot.

But then it clicked. For me it's more than that... I realised we don't see the Enterprise like a central character in other shows.

I tested this theory by flicking through Through the Lens of Time and Terrarium (other episodes may prove me wrong)... the former I don't think has any Enterprise shots and the latter has one I think.

Terrarium starts in the ship. It ends in the ship.

Compare that to the previous series. They almost always started with an external of the ship, and almost always ended with an external of the ship. They often featured shots of the ship at warp. Often when transferring from a scene on a planet for example to the ship, you'd see an establishing shot of the ship.

I think the nature of broadcast TV also helped this. You'd come back from an ad break to a shot of the ship, and often a captain's log to catch people up. But this acted as a great breather, to stop for a moment and set the scene and move on - something lost on streaming TV.

As a result the ship feels less like a character, but it leads to just one long string of internal scenes. There's no pause, no breath... no sense of the Enterprise being there, moving, traversing space... I forget just how powerful it is seeing an establishing shot of a ship at warp, going somewhere.

It took me ages to click with this, but I think it's something subtle that I miss about old Trek vs new.

 

[Tosk]

Old Trek was still doing the old "establishing/scene transition shot every so often" routine that most TV shows used. Like sitcoms cutting to the outside of the house every so often.

And I liked it.

 

[fireproof78]

Been watching sitcoms more lately and I definitely find establishing shots better if kept to a minimum.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Old trek could get away with establishing shots because they constantly recycled footage. New trek has avoided that consistently. It costs too much money to do VFX establishing shots every 10 minutes and they're really pretty superfluous anyway

 

[Christopher]

Old trek could get away with establishing shots because they constantly recycled footage. New trek has avoided that consistently. It costs too much money to do VFX establishing shots every 10 minutes and they're really pretty superfluous anyway

But it costs just as much to pre-animate a CGI scene to project onto the bridge viewscreen or the briefing room wall screen, or to project the virtual background of the engine room onto the LED volume. And they do plenty of episodes where entire alien landscapes are continuous CGI animation sequences, like "Through the Lens of Time" or "Terrarium." CGI shots are far more ubiquitous in SNW than they ever were in the older shows. So it wouldn't be any harder or costlier to show an exterior of the ship for 10-15 seconds now and then. And there's no reason they couldn't reuse generic stock shots of the ship, or at least alter an existing CGI animation with a different space backdrop and lighting.

 

[Tuskin38]

There were some beautiful establishing shots of the Enterprise in 4 1/2 Vulcans.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

But it costs just as much to pre-animate a CGI scene to project onto the bridge viewscreen or the briefing room wall screen, or to project the virtual background of the engine room onto the LED volume. And they do plenty of episodes where entire alien landscapes are continuous CGI animation sequences, like "Through the Lens of Time" or "Terrarium." CGI shots are far more ubiquitous in SNW than they ever were in the older shows. So it wouldn't be any harder or costlier to show an exterior of the ship for 10-15 seconds now and then. And there's no reason they couldn't reuse generic stock shots of the ship, or at least alter an existing CGI animation with a different space backdrop and lighting.

I'm fully aware that CGI is more ubiquitous, which is part of my point. I'd rather the CGI be used for things like action sequences and set piece moments or to make alien worlds look like alien worlds and not a cave set on a sound stage.

I don't need a 15 second shot of the hero ship to establish where the characters are. Maybe you do though and that's ok champ.

 

[Christopher]

I'm fully aware that CGI is more ubiquitous, which is part of my point. I'd rather the CGI be used for things like action sequences and set piece moments or to make alien worlds look like alien worlds and not a cave set on a sound stage.

But what you said was "It costs too much money to do VFX establishing shots every 10 minutes." That specific part of your post was what I was addressing. Given that CGI fills so much of any given episode, the cost of a short establishing shot would be a drop in the bucket. And since the 15 seconds of an exterior establishing shot might replace 15 seconds of a bridge shot with CG animation fed in live on the viewscreen, the cost would cancel out. That's a matter of fact, not opinion. I'm not concerned with questioning anyone else's opinions or preferences, but facts are non-negotiable.

 

[Mudd]

There are a lot of beautiful shots of Enterprise moving through space, every week. I don't know what this topic is about.

 

[Michael]

they use the medbay and briefing room a lot.

I know that’s besides the point you’re making, but as much as I liked the new science lab (or Cetacean ops or engineering lab or whatever) when they first introduced it this season, I think it’s way overused. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but so far they managed to have it in every episode of the season, with just one episode to go. It’s starting to get comical how each episode will find a way to have the characters stand around that fucking table at least once.

 

[fireproof78]

Reminds me of TNG and the pool table.

 

[Christopher]

I know that’s besides the point you’re making, but as much as I liked the new science lab (or Cetacean ops or engineering lab or whatever) when they first introduced it this season, I think it’s way overused. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but so far they managed to have it in every episode of the season, with just one episode to go. It’s starting to get comical how each episode will find a way to have the characters stand around that fucking table at least once.

That tends to happen in most shows when they build a new standing set, like Ten Forward for TNG or Astrometrics for VGR. They have to use it enough to amortize the cost of building it.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

But what you said was "It costs too much money to do VFX establishing shots every 10 minutes." That specific part of your post was what I was addressing. Given that CGI fills so much of any given episode, the cost of a short establishing shot would be a drop in the bucket. And since the 15 seconds of an exterior establishing shot might replace 15 seconds of a bridge shot with CG animation fed in live on the viewscreen, the cost would cancel out. That's a matter of fact, not opinion. I'm not concerned with questioning anyone else's opinions or preferences, but facts are non-negotiable.

Yeah and I would rather the money be better spent on action sequences and the like than on pithy establishing shots because some trek fans have trouble figuring out where the characters are. Not sure why that's hard for you to understand.

 

[Christopher]

Not sure why that's hard for you to understand.

What I'm trying to get you to understand is that when I call out a specific part of a conversation, I'm not addressing the validity of your entire position, just pointing out a flaw with that one specific assertion. I don't see facts as ammunition to use in personal or ideological debates. That's not the way my brain works. I only care about factual accuracy in and of itself. My only agenda was to point out that rendering an external establishing shot of the Enterprise would not be costlier than rendering an equivalent amount of bridge viewscreen footage to project live on set. That is not a criticism of anyone's preferences or tastes, or a comment on anything beyond that one single, specific issue. I was not rejecting your entire argument, merely saying that that one specific premise was erroneous so that your argument would be better served without it. So can we please just move on?

 

[AntonyF]

I'm fully aware that CGI is more ubiquitous, which is part of my point. I'd rather the CGI be used for things like action sequences and set piece moments or to make alien worlds look like alien worlds and not a cave set on a sound stage.

I don't need a 15 second shot of the hero ship to establish where the characters are. Maybe you do though and that's ok champ.

Well "champ", that was the point of my post.

I don't NEED them, but for me it gives a sense of space and direction. And I kind of miss them.

Some of the episodes could be in a submarine, there's no sense of where they are.

And for me things like the Enterprise were a character in themselves, which I feel is lost a bit.

 

[AntonyF]

There are a lot of beautiful shots of Enterprise moving through space, every week. I don't know what this topic is about.

Factually not true, if you read my post.

I tested this theory by flicking through Through the Lens of Time and Terrarium (other episodes may prove me wrong)... the former I don't think has any Enterprise shots and the latter has one I think.

Terrarium starts in the ship. It ends in the ship.

because some trek fans have trouble figuring out where the characters are.

Way to twist what I said. Don't be a dick, show respect.

 

[David cgc]

I agree about the lack of establishing shots. If nothing else, they're a way to introduce scope in the storytelling by showing time has passed (contrast with ST09 and STID where overly-continuous action made it look like it takes three minutes to get from Earth to Vulcan, or from Qo'noS to Earth). Plus, it's nice to see the ship outside of the opening credits.

But the streaming Trek shows do, inexplicably, have commercial breaks, and I think they're pretty annoying since I don't watch the show in a format where there are commercials, so the scene just abruptly cuts to black on a mini-climax every now and then. I'm surprised that, as far as I know, no other show has done what the Stargate series did and edited two versions of the episodes, one with commercial breaks and one that plays straight through like a movie. They even kept it up after the episodes stopped airing commercial-free on premium cable, just for the eventual home video release.

Actually, I just realized, it's possible that some streaming-first shows without commercial breaks are doing that, but I just haven't noticed because I haven't watched reruns on linear TV. The only time I would've noticed was when I accidentally turned on the Hulu version of Andor instead of the Disney+ version, and the commercial breaks inserted then were very abrupt, like when a movie was edited to be shown on TV.

 

[Tuskin38]

I tested this theory by flicking through Through the Lens of Time and Terrarium (other episodes may prove me wrong)

TrekCore has screencaps of the first 2 seasons if you don't want to keep loading up individual episodes.

In Season 1, episodes 1, 5, 7, and 9 do not open with the Enterprise, but there's still shots of the Enterprise at some point.

Every episode of Season 2 starts with a shot of the Enterprise, except the Lower Decks crossover, the season finale and Una's court episode, though there's still shots of the Enterprise in all three at some point.

The Lower Decks and the season finale episodes do open with shots of a ship though. Lower Decks episode shows the Cerritos, and the season finale shows the Cayuga.

Going through P+ now
Season 3:
Episode 1: Opening exterior shot of the Gorn attacking the Enterprise
Episode 2: Opening Exterior shot of the Enterprise being repaired
Episode 3: Opens with Pike finding a Batel, but there is an exterior shot of the Enterprise before the opening credits, but there are exterior shots in the episode.
Episode 4: Opens with the Last Frontier, there's a shot of the Enterprise after the opening credits.
Episode 5: No exterior shots of the Enterprise at all in the entire episode, but that was also a very VFX heavy episode, could have to do with budget.
Episode 6: Opens with a shot of the Farragut, but there are plenty of shots of the Enterprise through out the episode
Episode 7: Is all 'in-universe' captured footage, so no establishing shots perse, but there are exterior shots of the ship at points, either as inserts or exterior mounted camera footage.
Episode 8: Has several beautiful shots of the Enterprise, including the opening shot.
Episode 9: Opens with Ortegas getting ready for the mission, no exterior shots before the opening credits, but after the credits immediately has exterior shuttle shots. The shuttle's shutters are closed in the interior shots, probably so they wouldn't have to render anything outside of them. There's a lot of VFX work in planet scenes, so maybe again it could have been budget, or wanting to maximize screen time for Ortegas and the others. There's a couple exterior shots of the Enterprise as they're plugging the wormhole.

 

[Christopher]

The only time I would've noticed was when I accidentally turned on the Hulu version of Andor instead of the Disney+ version, and the commercial breaks inserted then were very abrupt, like when a movie was edited to be shown on TV.

I think streamers make their commercial interruptions annoying on purpose in hopes of goading people to pay more for commercial-free tiers.

 

[AntonyF]

TrekCore has screencaps of the first 2 seasons if you don't want to keep loading up individual episodes.

Thanks, I'll take a look.

And I appreciate your research. It's definitely proves my hunch that it's not the consistent - almost by rote - use of external shots in the other shows.

Episode 5: No exterior shots of the Enterprise at all in the entire episode, but that was also a very VFX heavy episode, could have to do with budget.

I think that and some of your own notes backs up the theories of budget up the thread.

Before it was just the same few shots used over and over. Now they feel reluctant to re-use shots so blatantly, so if they can't afford it in the episode it doesn't happen.