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The Delta Flyers now covering DS9

Another great pod. Nana's guest appearances are always particularly lovely. I love her whole vibe, and she has such fun pod chemistry with the rest of them. I hope she does write the book she was talking about. Her women-in-Trek book was so fantastic, let's keep it coming.
 
Sakonna said:
Another great pod. Nana's guest appearances are always particularly lovely. I love her whole vibe, and she has such fun pod chemistry with the rest of them. I hope she does write the book she was talking about. Her women-in-Trek book was so fantastic, let's keep it coming.
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I agree that it's great when Nana shows up, particularly since Terry was so darned annoying in this last episode.

Glad that everyone liked this quality episode and I'm glad that they brought up "Our Man Bashir" at least a few times to get Nana's take.

I do wish they would occasionally bring up previous episodes to get another host/guest's take on it if they weren't there for the proper ep.

On a slightly related note, I actually stopped listening to the previous "Crossfire" episode because everyone was so darned negative about it right off the bat. Not just negative, but dismissive, as well.

So I was surprised to hear Robbie say a couple of times that he "really liked" the episode. Maybe I'll go back and listen to the back half of it at some point.
 
I absolutely love Terry, I guess you can sometimes see glimpses of her ADHD, as in this ep…mmm HMMMM.

Nana is wonderful, so intelligent, measured and thoughtful. There’s a lot of heart about her too.

I was amazed they actually liked the episode though. I personally find Return to Grace a tad lacklustre, not sure if it’s the directing or the pace but it just lacked punch for me.

It’s a relief though, because I also stopped listening to the Crossfire commentary, between that and the maligned Homefront/Paradise Lost, you’d think they were discussing an autopsy.
 
I listen on and off to this, and I do get annoyed sometimes by the fact they seem to have terrible memories. At the start of the Homefront recap they have a fairly lengthy conversation about the Lakota, as it’s the ship that transports Sisko & Co to Earth, and they wrongly assume the Lakota is a runabout and are confused as to why it’s not named after a river.

Waited for the ball to drop when the Lakota had a bigger part in the second episode, but… nothing.
 
StewMc said:
I listen on and off to this, and I do get annoyed sometimes by the fact they seem to have terrible memories. At the start of the Homefront recap they have a fairly lengthy conversation about the Lakota, as it’s the ship that transports Sisko & Co to Earth, and they wrongly assume the Lakota is a runabout and are confused as to why it’s not named after a river.

Waited for the ball to drop when the Lakota had a bigger part in the second episode, but… nothing.
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Terrible memories and terrible facts, as Garrett said, in "Return to Grace", that the Occupation wasn't going on when Kira was a child.

Uh, YES IT WAS. It was 50 years, a number they repeat ad nauseam throughout the show. Kira, obviously, isn't sixty.
 
ananta said:
I was amazed they actually liked the episode though. I personally find Return to Grace a tad lacklustre, not sure if it’s the directing or the pace but it just lacked punch for me.
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Lacklustre is fair. It's a perfectly solid episode, elevated occasionally by a few good exchanges of dialogue and fine performances.

And, of course, it unintentionally sets up a lot of story threads that have major significance later.

But, on its own, it's perfectly solid, if not amazing.

I'm amazed Nana didn't even lightly tease Damar's importance in later seasons, as Damar was a topic of some mild interest during the episode. But I guess she really was taking the "spoiler" rule seriously. (the less charitable read is that she didn't remember.)
 
Nana comes across not only better informed and more analytical, but also more emotionally mature than the regular hosts.
 
StewMc said:
I listen on and off to this, and I do get annoyed sometimes by the fact they seem to have terrible memories. At the start of the Homefront recap they have a fairly lengthy conversation about the Lakota, as it’s the ship that transports Sisko & Co to Earth, and they wrongly assume the Lakota is a runabout and are confused as to why it’s not named after a river.

Waited for the ball to drop when the Lakota had a bigger part in the second episode, but… nothing.
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Most of these actors it's just a gig and they don't really geek out on it like fans. Shatner and Nimoy both spoke to it and it was lampooned in Galaxy Quest.
 
Uxi said:
Most of these actors it's just a gig and they don't really geek out on it like fans. Shatner and Nimoy both spoke to it and it was lampooned in Galaxy Quest.
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And yet new their gig is to remember what happened when filming the series!
 
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Yet another episode they disliked.

I never quite got the controversy over the ending as I always assumed that Worf would have discussed his plan with Kurn (off screen). Just because we didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and it would have been too much exposition rather than just showing it happen as they do.

The episode is pretty solid drama, great performances and fantastic directing by David Livingston (don’t know why Robbie has an issue with him). Robbie wanted to rate it a 4, whereas he rated those godawful Voyager Irish village episodes…was it 9s?

Think I’m gonna unsubscribe from the podcast for a while. They only seem to like the sillier comedy episodes.
 
ananta said:
I always assumed that Worf would have discussed his plan with Kurn (off screen)
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Take this only as discussion and not an attack, but I cannot fathom Kurn ever agreeing to what they did to him. That doesn't mean I can prove they didn't ask him, it just seems so far from his established character that I can't imagine it.

But also yeah, I dropped off the Flyers a while back and any time I sample a little again I very quickly move on to something else. :D
 
Tosk said:
Take this only as discussion and not an attack, but I cannot fathom Kurn ever agreeing to what they did to him. That doesn't mean I can prove they didn't ask him, it just seems so far from his established character that I can't imagine it.
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I agree, although to be fair the Kurn we saw in this episode was very far removed from the character we’ve previously seen: utterly broken, defeated and suicidal. He tells Worf at least once, “you’re my brother, tell me what to do and I’ll do it.”

I don’t get the Klingons admittedly, maybe there’s some loophole in the Big Book of Honoooour that says wiping your identity wipes away your dishonour.

But yeah, the episode should have addressed the issue of consent even in just a line of dialogue. I like the audaciousness of the choice they made. It’s nowhere near as horrendous as, say, Tuvix, but it probably needed a more exploration of that twist.
 
Tosk said:
Take this only as discussion and not an attack, but I cannot fathom Kurn ever agreeing to what they did to him. That doesn't mean I can prove they didn't ask him, it just seems so far from his established character that I can't imagine it.

But also yeah, I dropped off the Flyers a while back and any time I sample a little again I very quickly move on to something else. :D
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Agree. Upon first viewing way back when, I always thought the episode's conclusion was sloppy. With the benefit of hindsight, it's positively appalling.

It was just a cheap, easy way out for Moore to kind of let Worf have his cake and eat it, but it's really a terrible, cruel and baffling decision that 100% doesn't hold up to scrutiny on any level, morally, narratively or otherwise.

Which is a shame since, up until the ending, the episode is intriguing and heartfelt.
 
ananta said:
Yet another episode they disliked.

I never quite got the controversy over the ending as I always assumed that Worf would have discussed his plan with Kurn (off screen). Just because we didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and it would have been too much exposition rather than just showing it happen as they do.

The episode is pretty solid drama, great performances and fantastic directing by David Livingston (don’t know why Robbie has an issue with him). Robbie wanted to rate it a 4, whereas he rated those godawful Voyager Irish village episodes…was it 9s?

Think I’m gonna unsubscribe from the podcast for a while. They only seem to like the sillier comedy episodes.
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I actually enjoyed their conversation here. Robbie, in particular, admits his thinking on the episode swung wildly, enjoying large parts of it, but with other sections leaving him cold.

I have similarly mixed feelings about this one. I really like a lot of it, but the ending is truly terrible and, unfortunately, completely mars the episode overall.

I'm actually looking forward to Bar Association next week. Hopefully Chase's presence will liven things up and it'll be the one episode I'm actually eager to hear from Armin for, given his history with the Screen Actors' Guild.
 
The ending is a dud, another techno babble solution, but I think it's fine. There is no dramatic potential in having Worf and Kurn discuss the memory wipe. Kurn wants to die. Tony Todd's masterful performance makes that clear and unassailable. Either Kurn accepts it or thinks it's stupid, and Worf is back to square one. Kurn has already consented to be killed.
 
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