Do officers 'inherit' positions in Starfleet?

[Mojochi]

Elizabeth Dennehy herself said on the 7th Rule podcast she had a two episode contract for the 3rd season finale and the 4th season premiere and that was it, there was no option to become a regular and not even informal talks to her or her agent if she was theoretically willing to come back in any capacity.
The entire "They weren't sure if Patrick Stewart was coming back" story is also something fans most likely made up not knowing better. Patrick Stewart was under contract, it was not his decision if he returned or not. He could have asked to be released but the studio would have had to agree to that, there would have been no uncertainty. Shelby was created to clash with Riker and to create conflict, that's what they used guest stars for all the time.

Yeah. This whole concept about "Will Picard be gone & Riker take over or will Riker leave & Picard comes back" thing seemed like a gambit cooked up by the writer, writing the show into a corner at a time when they might've been considering leaving. Am I remembering that right?

 

[valkyrie013]

A lot of people IRL conflate those in the retelling, but it's possible they were two separate incidents, and Picard just took over when the captain and first officer were killed, but a new captain (and maybe first officer) were assigned after the crisis, and it was a while before Picard was actually made captain.

post he held for twenty-two years, and the battle of maxia was in 2355. so he held it since 2332, 5 years after graduating the academy making him 27 ( if he joined at 18)

My own opinion, is that the ship was out in the boonies doing exploration work, take a look at the aftermath of the Battle of Maxia, as it was several weeks in escape pods before rescue.
So, he was put in in temporary captains position, and by the time they got back to a star base, he had done good enough to keep the command. As said, it was a 40+ year old ship, no one else wanted it.

 

[Takeru]

Yeah. This whole concept about "Will Picard be gone & Riker take over or will Riker leave & Picard comes back" thing seemed like a gambit cooked up by the writer, writing the show into a corner at a time when they might've been considering leaving. Am I remembering that right?

Not sure but I think they just wanted to write an exciting cliffhanger and wanted the audience to be uncertain what would happen, the studio knew the entire cast would be back. Had someone asked to leave and the studio was agreeable to that that probably would have been decided on by the time the episode was written and filmed.

 

[Jedman67]

Just like that?

I can’t see it. There are presumably hundreds of officers at least who might be more experienced or flexible than Riker.

It's literally in the episode. Riker gets promoted and at the end of BOBW he's offered his own command and still retains his 4th pip.
Since Picard ended up remaining in command, and Riker chose to stay on as XO, he lost his temporary "promotion."
Prior to coming aboard the enterprise, he was XO on the USS Hood for 3 years, so it's not like he was short on experience. In fact, the only reason why he stayed was because Frakes was under contract as an actor and TV is not real life.

The entire "They weren't sure if Patrick Stewart was coming back" story is also something fans most likely made up not knowing better. Patrick Stewart was under contract, it was not his decision if he returned or not. He could have asked to be released but the studio would have had to agree to that, there would have been no uncertainty.

I don't believe that he was considering leaving, but actors break multi year contracts all the time to leave a show or film series. If Stewart had really wanted to move on, they would have let him go.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

It's literally in the episode. Riker gets promoted and at the end of BOBW he's offered his own command and still retains his 4th pip.

He’s offered another ship. That’s slightly different to the question I’m asking.

If (in universe), Picard for some reason did not survive or come back from TBoBW, would Riker have been automatically put in the center seat of the Enterprise?

And would Data have automatically inherited Riker’s position?

Honestly, if it was the case, it would make sense of why Riker doesn’t want his own command outside of the Enterprise. He’s waiting for Picard to step down because he knows he’ll be shooed in to the most prestigious position on a starship in the whole fleet.

It just doesn’t sit right with me, but if that is the case then it is what it is I guess.

 

[Danja]

In an emergency (such as in Gambit) the next in line senior officer (such as the XO) would take over as acting captain immediately. If the original captain is dead or permanently disabled, the acting captain would become the presumptive new captain and official promotion is would be likely forthcoming with little fuss.

Seven succeeded Shaw after he was killed.

 

[Mojochi]

If (in universe), Picard for some reason did not survive or come back from TBoBW, would Riker have been automatically put in the center seat of the Enterprise?

And would Data have automatically inherited Riker’s position?

Purely from an in universe perspective, I feel like you might be conflating some variables.

1. In the very specific event that Picard never returned from assimilation, after Wolf 359, then yes, I do suppose Riker would've retained command over the Enterprise. It's not a total given, but very likely, because the promotion had already occurred (by an admiral who's now dead) and there'd be a pretty tragic shortage of other captains after the massacre. It would be sensible to just leave things as is, for all concerned.

2. Does that mean Data would then move up as his #1? Possibly, but he'd already promoted Shelby to that spot (which she certainly wanted) there might not be any official reason to alter that, after the fact. In this case, I surmise Data would stay at Ops as 2nd officer, & Riker wouldn't want to move people around.

3. In a completely different scenario, where Picard, retires, transfers, or accepts promotion, thru a normal administrative process, does Riker automatically get grandfathered into the captain seat? It's possible. I imagine his name is at least considered, but he's never done any service in such a post long term, the way Picard did before he got posted there, & that is a mark against him, for such a prestigious post IMHO

I suspect a Jellico type situation happens. There'd be established captains in line, who have experience & pull with command to get it, & it's pretty presumptuous for Riker to think he'd get consideration over them. If he's waiting around as Picard's #1, hoping to be grandfathered in, that's a pretty dumb line of reasoning, just asking to get blindsided.

I figure he'd get passed over, especially after having turned down 3 other commands. They'd put someone else in there, & he'd get butthurt. Then he'd likely transfer out, maybe even accepting a captaincy of another ship. In that event, Data might get promoted from within, to fill his vacancy, unless this all happens in quick succession, and there's an opportunity for the new captain to pick from a list of 1st officer candidates, before he takes over. Then, Data is at a disadvantage for it. (For all kinds of reasons)

Whether he realizes it or not, Riker laying in wait, to replace Picard naturally, is only practical in the event a tragedy takes Picard, which is pretty macabre thinking. There's no guarantees he's considered as a suitable replacement otherwise though IMHO. "Inheriting" that position only ever seems to happen when the captain is lost & an urgent need arises for the 1st officer to assume the role, after which time the crisis might distinguish them enough to keep it permanently.

I can't think of any time someone just sat around waiting, while turning down multiple other commands, and then when the captain abdicates, they are moved in as a legacy hire, without any real time in the position permanently. That's a pretty terrible way to run your fleet IMHO. This is a rank structure, not aristocratic. "She's not the Enterprise" is a pretty idiotic reason to turn down a promotion.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Purely from an in universe perspective, I feel like you might be conflating some variables.

1. In the very specific event that Picard never returned from assimilation, after Wolf 359, then yes, I do suppose Riker would've retained command over the Enterprise. It's not a total given, but very likely, because the promotion had already occurred (by an admiral who's now dead) and there'd be a pretty tragic shortage of other captains after the massacre. It would be sensible to just leave things as is, for all concerned.

2. Does that mean Data would then move up as his #1? Possibly, but he'd already promoted Shelby to that spot (which she certainly wanted) there might not be any official reason to alter that, after the fact. In this case, I surmise Data would stay at Ops as 2nd officer, & Riker wouldn't want to move people around.

3. In a completely different scenario, where Picard, retires, transfers, or accepts promotion, thru a normal administrative process, does Riker automatically get grandfathered into the captain seat? It's possible. I imagine his name is at least considered, but he's never done any service in such a post long term, the way Picard did before he got posted there, & that is a mark against him, for such a prestigious post IMHO

I suspect a Jellico type situation happens. There'd be established captains in line, who have experience & pull with command to get it, & it's pretty presumptuous for Riker to think he'd get consideration over them. If he's waiting around as Picard's #1, hoping to be grandfathered in, that's a pretty dumb line of reasoning, just asking to get blindsided.

I figure he'd get passed over, especially after having turned down 3 other commands. They'd put someone else in there, & he'd get butthurt. Then he'd likely transfer out, maybe even accepting a captaincy of another ship. In that event, Data might get promoted from within, to fill his vacancy, unless this all happens in quick succession, and there's an opportunity for the new captain to pick from a list of 1st officer candidates, before he takes over. Then, Data is at a disadvantage for it. (For all kinds of reasons)

Whether he realizes it or not, Riker laying in wait, to replace Picard naturally, is only practical in the event a tragedy takes Picard, which is pretty macabre thinking. There's no guarantees he's considered as a suitable replacement otherwise though IMHO. "Inheriting" that position only ever seems to happen when the captain is lost & an urgent need arises for the 1st officer to assume the role, after which time the crisis might distinguish them enough to keep it permanently.

I can't think of any time someone just sat around waiting, while turning down multiple other commands, and then when the captain abdicates, they are moved in as a legacy hire, without any real time in the position permanently. That's a pretty terrible way to run your fleet IMHO. This is a rank structure, not aristocratic. "She's not the Enterprise" is a pretty idiotic reason to turn down a promotion.

I think this is a brilliant answer and covers just about everything. I’d like to thank you sincerely for clearly taking a lot of time and effort in posting it.

 

[Danja]

Whether he realizes it or not, Riker laying in wait, to replace Picard naturally, is only practical in the event a tragedy takes Picard, which is pretty macabre thinking. There's no guarantees he's considered as a suitable replacement otherwise though IMHO. "Inheriting" that position only ever seems to happen when the captain is lost & an urgent need arises for the 1st officer to assume the role, after which time the crisis might distinguish them enough to keep it permanently.

I can't think of any time someone just sat around waiting, while turning down multiple other commands, and then when the captain abdicates, they are moved in as a legacy hire, without any real time in the position permanently. That's a pretty terrible way to run your fleet IMHO. This is a rank structure, not aristocratic. "She's not the Enterprise" is a pretty idiotic reason to turn down a promotion.

Riker skippered Titan.

 

[Mojochi]

Riker skippered Titan.

Sure. He took another ship's vacancy, thru a natural promotion, after years of waiting for Picard to drop dead or something lol

Until then though, he had no permanent post as a captain, for which to thoroughly qualify him to take the Enterprise, when there'd be other captains out there that were more qualified. A crisis was his only hope of being promoted from within there, IMHO

Now, AFTER captaining the Titan, could he get the Enterprise? Sure. He had a better than average shot at it, I bet.

 

[Jedman67]

He’s offered another ship. That’s slightly different to the question I’m asking.

If (in universe), Picard for some reason did not survive or come back from TBoBW, would Riker have been automatically put in the center seat of the Enterprise?

And would Data have automatically inherited Riker’s position?

Honestly, if it was the case, it would make sense of why Riker doesn’t want his own command outside of the Enterprise. He’s waiting for Picard to step down because he knows he’ll be shooed in to the most prestigious position on a starship in the whole fleet.

It just doesn’t sit right with me, but if that is the case then it is what it is I guess.

He was already field promoted to Captain and given command of the enterprise. There is no indication that if Picard indeed had not come back (as everyone who was not the audience assumed) that Riker would be bumped off the Enterprise. And if Shelby had been transferred, it's very likely Riker would consider Data as XO, being that he was already Second Officer. But usually the captain is given a lot of leeway in selecting their crew.

Seven succeeded Shaw after he was killed.

Shaw gave Seven a deathbed promotion; he wanted her to finish the mission. So it's not quite the same.

3. In a completely different scenario, where Picard, retires, transfers, or accepts promotion, thru a normal administrative process, does Riker automatically get grandfathered into the captain seat? It's possible. I imagine his name is at least considered, but he's never done any service in such a post long term, the way Picard did before he got posted there, & that is a mark against him, for such a prestigious post IMHO

I think it would depend a lot on what Picard requests.

 

[Mojochi]

I think it would depend a lot on what Picard requests.

As in what he's choosing/requesting to do with himself, or as in what he requests be done with Riker & the Enterprise?

If you mean the latter, I'd think he wouldn't have much say, beyond recommendations to high command, once he opts to leave of his own accord, for something else.

If you mean the former, then maybe, I guess. I can certainly imagine scenarios where Riker does have a rare opportunity to step into Picard's spot directly thereafter. Say for example Picard is recovering from one of his life altering traumas (take your pick lol) & doesn't want to give up his command there, but honestly can't immediately resume, for recovery issues. Riker assumes command, pro tempore, for an extended period, with the intention to have Picard return to his ship & crew, at some point, and if it turns out he never does, Riker can have it officialized it at some point, having served in it pretty substantially until then.

But I really do think if Picard just up and retired or took promotion to admiral, as things sat, & they'd returned back, to report back to command, & for him to disembark, the ship would be held from service for a brief period & the decision of his replacement would undergo administrative discussion. With such a condition, Riker loses some advantage imho & is likely bypassed

 

[Jedman67]

or as in what he requests be done with Riker & the Enterprise?

Picard would make a recommendation to Starfleet Command on what to do with Riker when he retires or otherwise voluntarily leaves the ship.
SC would of course take a number of factors into consideration before issuing orders, but I'd imagine they would weigh Picard's advice.

Hypothetically, if this were to happen during TNG's run, I imagine Picard would advocate for Riker taking over. However, post GEN I think he would push Riker to take his own command, as happens in NEM when he takes over the Titan

 

[Mojochi]

Picard would make a recommendation to Starfleet Command on what to do with Riker when he retires or otherwise voluntarily leaves the ship.
SC would of course take a number of factors into consideration before issuing orders, but I'd imagine they would weigh Picard's advice.

Hypothetically, if this were to happen during TNG's run, I imagine Picard would advocate for Riker taking over. However, post GEN I think he would push Riker to take his own command, as happens in NEM when he takes over the Titan

To be fair, Picard has been pushing him to take his own command somewhere else since season 2

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

A lot of people IRL conflate those in the retelling

As is narrated in the video game Star Trek Legacy, by the way it is described on the series, I always assumed that it was simply a disaster that eliminated some of the crew, and that Picard jumped in with authority to order actions to save the day. Obviously as an LT ot LTCMDR, Picard would not be given the captaincy of the ship officially until they got to a base and Picard got promoted, but by then it would have been clear he was the obvious choice.

If you suggest that there is a possible ongoing story here that would take more time than Picard jumping in to take over the bridge, the current owners of the rights may want to do a 13-episode series about how Picard really only took over for depressing selfish reasons and not to save the day

I suspect a Jellico type situation happens

Actually I think it is possible this is they way the crew came together in TOS, at least as far as that series itself implies. (I'm not counting stuff made post-2009 in this comment). The crew is working together well, but it is suggested Kirk must act "perfect" in early episodes. Kirk has asked for Mitchell on the ship, and Dehner acts as if that is noteworthy. Spock already served with Pike. I think it is possible that most of the crew, maybe all of the crew except Mitchell, Dehner, and McCoy, are crew from Pike's 2nd five year mission and Kirk left the makeup of the positions mostly the same.

Some fans and novels have it that Kirk and McCoy knew each other before the mission, Mitchell was explicitly asked for by Kirk, and I further suggest that Dehner was Kirk's pick for ships counselor but upon her death she was not replaced. After Mitchel and Dehner are killed, McCoy joins the ship at some point. Kirk could seem like he is trying to take control with an established, well-operating crew, and this could be why he wants to seem to authoritative and excellent.