Revisiting Star Trek Continues...

[Ssosmcin]

For the most part Vic Mignogna was fine was Kirk.

Haberkorn was also mostly fine as Spock. What got to me most was the pitch of Haberkorn's voice which was higher than Nimoy's, but not a big deal.

See now that was my problem with Vic: he was Kirk on helium. Also ten years too old, but for the most part his performance was good. He just lacked the one thing that Shatner had buckets of: charisma.

As I said upthread although Chuck Huber looked sorta/remotely more like Deforest Kelley I actually preferred Larry Nemecek's performance. He seemed more at ease and less forced. And he didn't come across as grouchy--a cliche too many seem to buy into about McCoy.

I preferred Huber, but honestly the only one of the fan actors to get it close was John Kelley in NV. Right down to the wig. He leaned less on the "Dammit Jim" than the others did. People do forget that McCoy was often light and good humored. Just don't get him riled up. He was supposed to be kinda like Doc Adams on Gunsmoke, but not a carbon copy.

Chris Doohan was fine as Scotty. Indeed he even seemed to dial back some of the excitability that James Doohan exhibited in TOS's third season, which I appreciated.

The problem with Scotty is nobody on these things knows how to write him. I get that the character was mostly on Trek to spout technical jargon and be excitable sometimes, but the fan films lean way to hard into the panic and "Scottyisms." It started with New Voyages with lines like "It's time to ring the dinner bell! All right beastie! Come and get it." Oh my God, Scotty, shut uppppp!

It spilled over to STC with an ample supply of "beasties" and other homilies. Chris Doohan rarely alters his delivery and sometimes chews on the overbaked lines. Not every line has to be spit out. He should have watched more of his own dad's work.

Wyatt Lenhart as Chekov was mostly okay, but he could come across as a bit awkward as if he was playing Chekov as trying too hard to make an impression.

I feel like he had trouble with the accent which hampered his performance. And, again, it helps to write dialog that compliments rather than hinders the required accent.

Like you, I had no issues with the performances of the newer characters. I actually like M'Benga more in STC than SNW.

 

[Bixby]

I've been re-watching some STC and New Voyages episodes recently. I know sometimes, and I say sometimes they did this on OG Trek but, what was the point of having 2 security guards standing at attention near the turbolift doors when nothing really was happening?

I can understand having them there, when intruders were on the ship or potentially hostile visitors, but in the fanfilms they have them guarding when none of that is happening...

I'm re-watching Kitumba, and here they have a reason because a Klingon is onboard, except the guards were on the bridge BEFORE K'sia emerges from the turbolift. A few minutes later, one of the guards inexplicably leaves the bridge. Then Kirk and others have a brief interlude down at the conference room, with Paul R. Sieber as the security guard this time (he wasn't part of the previous 2 on the bridge). Shortly back to the bridge for Kirk and the Klingon guest, however no security this time?!?

On STC, security deployment is also quite confusing. When there are potential hostiles on board the ship, such as Apollo and Zaminhon, you would imagine at least one or two security guards would usually shadow them or the ship's captain, but Kirk is most often by himself undefended.

I know, I know, because Kirk's gotta Kirk!!

 

[Ssosmcin]

I've been re-watching some STC and New Voyages episodes recently. I know sometimes, and I say sometimes they did this on OG Trek but, what was the point of having 2 security guards standing at attention near the turbolift doors when nothing really was happening?

The Doomsday Machine is guilty of that. Two guards on the bridge at the start of the episode, but the issue at the time is outside the ship. And as soon as Kirk calls for red alert, they take two steps from the wall and stand in the way! Everyone has to walk around them! Production wise, they're there so Mr. Montgomery (who isn't even played by Jerry Catron for most of the episode) can take Decker below and get beaten up.

 

[Maurice]

The guards should always be present at red alert because that's everyone at their battle stations, regardless of the circumstances. They probably would be on station when an enemy is on board.

 

[Bixby]

Another aspect that proved a bit disappointing from both STC and New Voyages, is their forgetfulness at continuing the supporting characters' personal lives.

Of course Kirk is Kirk and had a few trysts during NV and STC's 10 episodes, Spock was shoehorned into an unlikely romance with McKennah, despite that in the 3rd season he lucked out with Droxine and the Romulan Commander.

McCoy is more of a one-woman type, no mention of Yeoman Barrows at all but at least STNV brought back Natira for a second go around. Scotty was a big disappointment because nothing further happened between himself and Mira Romaine (hopefully in a second appearance they could at least show Mira responding to Scotty as much as he did towards her).

Chekov was shown as a younger Kirk as far as romances, so even though Irina had amazing story possibilities, it would still make sense that Chekov would keep chasing girls across the galaxy. Sulu had the excellent NV episode where they acknowledged his daughter from Generations and the beginning of a romance therein, but Uhura seems like she is destined to never get an onscreen romance of her own. It's too bad that STC didn't attempt this.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Scotty was a big disappointment because nothing further happened between himself and Mira Romaine (hopefully in a second appearance they could at least show Mira responding to Scotty as much as he did towards her).

Ugh.

Mira not reciprocating is a valid way to depict the Mira character. Although Scotty's shamelessly infatuated with Mira in "Zetar," there wasn't anything to suggest she was ever going to feel the same about him.

I realize you're speaking just about this particular instance, and who isn't a shipper sometimes, but, just in general, the idea that a woman must reciprocate when a man shows interest has got to go, IRL and in fiction. I'm not saying you disagree.

Why not create a new character?

 

[Bixby]

Ugh.

Mira not reciprocating is a valid way to depict the Mira character. Although Scotty's shamelessly infatuated with Mira in "Zetar," there wasn't anything to suggest she was ever going to feel the same about him.

I realize you're speaking just about this particular instance, and who isn't a shipper sometimes, but, just in general, the idea that a woman must reciprocate when a man shows interest has got to go, IRL and in fiction. I'm not saying you disagree.

Let's not get dramatic. The opening Captain's log mentioned "Scotty falling in love", I truly doubt Kirk would mention this in his log if he hadn't seen offscreen evidence that both characters were engaged in a mutual relationship.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Let's not get dramatic. The opening Captain's log mentioned "Scotty falling in love", I truly doubt Kirk would mention this in his log if he hadn't seen offscreen evidence that both characters were engaged in a mutual relationship.

And yet, Mira not "responding to Scotty as much as he did towards her" was literally the basis of your complaint.

Scotty was a big disappointment because nothing further happened between himself and Mira Romaine (hopefully in a second appearance they could at least show Mira responding to Scotty as much as he did towards her).

She's leaving the ship never to be heard from again. Poor Scotty.

 

[Bixby]

And yet, Mira not "responding to Scotty as much as he did towards her" was literally the basis of your complaint.

She's leaving the ship never to be heard from again. Poor Scotty.

Oh so that's how it's going to be, eh?
Actually, my current partner comes from a culture where public displays of affection are usually considered awkward, so I can fully relate to Scotty being the extrovert and Mira the introvert. However, looking over the episode again more carefully, she DOES respond in non-platonic ways during the episode at least twice.

Where my original comment came from was we never really hear her verbalize how she feels about Scotty in private, but that's due to her being attacked by the Zetar mind-cloud almost immediately before the theme song.

Now, at some point, maybe you'll actually share your own insights about STC...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Now, at some point, maybe you'll actually share your own insights about STC...

I have shared my insights about Star Trek Continues.

If you believe my comments have been out of order at any point in this thread, kindly hit the report button.

 

[Warped9]

"To Boldly Go" Part I & II - 2/5

Stardate 6595.1 - The Enterprise encounters a group of Espers intent on wreaking havoc on the Federation and the known galaxy.

Everything comes home to roost in these episodes. This is nothing but full-on fan service of callbacks to previous episodes and callouts to future productions that TOS' creators wouldn't have had an inkling about. This is pure indulgence in something TOS would never have done and any pretence of the viewer feeling, even remotely, like they are watching something from 1969 is slain here. If anything this plays like a Pocket Books novel put to film.

Candidly I put off watching this because I recalled how much I disliked it. And time hasn't done it any favours. It's still ridiculous. My eyes were rolling into the back of my head so often it gave me a headache. If I had taken a shot for every bit of fan service I would have been wasted within half an hour. It wasn’t just a matter of callouts, but actually ripping off things from other productions. You find yourself thinking they took that idea from here and this idea from there and so on and so on. I don’t think there was one original thought in the whole fucking exercise.

Succinctly the Enterprise is dispatched to investigate the apparent destruction of a Federation colony and research outpost. When they arrive they find no colony and only one survivor of the outpost. And this survivor appears to be a human enhanced exactly like Gary Mitchell from several years before in "Where No Man Has gone Before."

It's revealed the research outpost was working to develop more Espers or so the story goes. They are also led to believe the Romulans destroyed the colony to prevent any further Espers from being created. Subsequently the Enterprise pursues what appears to be a Romulan ship back toward the Neutral Zone. Upon arrival they find there is no real ship to pursue yet they encounter a Romulan Bird of Prey commanded by the Commander from "The Enterprise Incident." This was one of many WTFs! in this episode--after the events of "The Enterprise Incident" it's far more likely she would have been executed by her own people upon her return, assuming she elected to return home. Spock sends a coded message to the Romulan Commander appraising her of the developing situation. This doesn't sit well with Kirk and we get echoes of Spock's secretive behaviour from "The Menagerie."

In the end the Enterprise and the Romulans agree to work together when they realize the Espers have staged everything. As things unfold we see some pretty grim moments as characters are killed off. Indeed this is how they explain why Spock decides to resign Starfleet and return to Vulcan to undergo the Kohlinar to rid himself totally of emotion. All along the whole point of Mckenna's character was to create some sort of relationship with Spock so when she dies Spock is overwhelmed with grief. This is also why the character of Lt. Smith (formerly Yeoman Smith from WNMHGB) exists so she could be instrumental as a latent Esper to help save the day.

And during all this we learn it was the Espers who were responsible for seriously damaging or destroying the Constitution-class starships as they learned to stretch their abilities. So all along from the beginning the writers of STC were laying plot threads to be revealed later like as so many contemporary productions.

In the end the entire series was to set things up for TMP right down to seeing Kirk in his TMP Admiral's uniform.

There are some nice visuals in these episodes, but story wise, and character wise, it comes off much more like a TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT production than TOS. Indeed it pretty much only looks like TOS.

I was not just disappointed with this, I found myself actively disliking it. And that pretty much summarizes my overall feelings for how STC progressed. It had a lot a promise, started out strong and did some things I was genuinely impressed with. But it never really realized what I had thought they claimed they were trying to do--to make you feel like it was 1969 again.

Now if you're into generous servings of fan service then you will likely love STC. But if you're hoping for something that feels more like authentic TOS you'll be disappointed because this ain't it except in occasional moments. It's a shame because there were some STC episodes that felt very much like stories TOS could have done. But in the end they really weren't trying to do TOS at all.

It's too damn bad.

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In the end this series averaged out a ranking of 2.8/5. If I round it off then it's 3/5. It's okay with occasional impressive moments, but it never really gels the way it could have.

The episodes I liked most were "Pilgrim Of Eternity," "Lolani," "Fairest Of Them All," "Come Not Between The Dragons," "Embracing The Winds" and "What Ships Are For." Those I liked least were "The White Iris," "Divided We Stand," "Still Treads The Shadow" and "To Boldly Go" Parts 1 & 2.

The first three episodes struck me as the best overall. The remaining three episodes I liked were mostly okay, but could have been much better. The rest were largely just cringe inducing.

 

[Warped9]

I had mentioned some chilling moments in this finale that reminded me of that scene in “And The Children Shall Lead” where Kirk and Spock realize the Enterprise is no longer in orbit over Triacus and they have just beamed out two security men into open space while the Enterprise is at warp. Thats cold.

In like manner when Lana (an Esper) admits they were responsible for the failure of life support systems aboard the starship Hood, thus killing everyone aboard, just to prove they could actually do it is distinctly chilling. It does make one think back that they were probably also responsible for the Hood’s systems suddenly coming alive and going critical while the Enterprise was trying to salvage the vessel. Only Chekov’s quick thinking saved Scotty, Uhura and the rest of the salvage crew’s lives.

But Lana tops that off when she deliberately manipulates Security Chief Drake into killing another Enterprise security guard before forcing him to turn his phaser on himself. Thats seriously cold and feels worse than Gary Mitchell using his mind to strangle Lee Kelso with a power cable in “Where No Man Has Gone Before.”

It doesn’t end there. Later the Espers are holding a number of Starfleet crewman on the starship Kongo’s flight deck then deliberately space them into open vacuum.

The heroic death of Lt. Smith is rather sad. I did like her character even if she felt force fit into the crew dynamic. The demise of McKennah was also a sad, but (for me) it doesn’t hit the same way when you know her death (needlessly drawn out) is just a ploy to rationalize Spock resigning from Starfleet.

 

[Bixby]

I rewatched To Boldly Go part 1 a couple weeks ago, and am about 1/3 of the way into part 2 this weekend.

Some things I liked: in part 2 I enjoyed seeing the revolving door of silent Navigators and Helmswomen that appear on both Bridges (a counterpoint to the 1960s with their Leslie's and Hanley's and etc.)

Even though I was puzzled with how it got to that point, the extended Transporter scene as McKennah's molecules slowly disintegrate did push some feels from me (Kudos to Lt. Specht)

I thought the opening sequence on STC's planet Alien set with Kirk, Spock and Dickerson fighting against the hovering killer drone was pretty cool (with one of my favorite Trek battle themes).

Unfortunately, with the end of that nifty action bit, as soon as Lana appeared that was also the end of anything making sense in To boldly Go parts 1 AND 2. I've already gone through in length about the utter lack of sense with anything that happened some years ago. Watching it again, I was struck with how the script forced Kirk and Spock to behave like idiots and fall for obvious schemes that they otherwise would never have on the 60s show.

Visually the cinematography was again exquisite, I found the FX this time were only ok (really, they should have hired Tobias Richter for their swan song, I've been watching a few of NV's episodes and it's so great what Richter delivered back then, models AND scene compositions).

I'm still curious how they managed to outfit so many Atlanta crewmembers with tunics and pants, they must have had a giant wardrobe department filled with Red/Blue/Olive shirts.

 

[Warped9]

Kirk, Spock and company fighting the automated sentry reminded me alot of the similar scene in TNG's "Arsenal Of Freedom." I wouldn't be surprised if that's where they got the idea given how much they lifted from other productions. There was something about the whole sequence that felt off to me--it just didn't feel as well choreographed as we would have seen on TOS.

There was alot of stuff in this that didn't work for me. We got a boatload of contemporary Trek technobabble we never would have gotten on TOS--that terminology simply didn't exist.

They pulled out all the stops to cram these finale instalments with stuff from later productions and nonstop fan service--thats why I said it came across like a filmed Pocket Books novel.

 

[Bixby]

One of the biggest disappointments from this 2-parter is bringing in M'Benga in part 1 for a glorified cameo, making you hope they'll do something significant with him at some point in the story...and he doesn't reappear...

 

[Warped9]

When I first learned of Star Trek Continues when they released their first episode “Pilgrim Of Eternity” I was very intrigued and subsequently very impressed. After I got used to the new cast I thought/hoped this could really be something, a near professional level production giving us more TOS that many of us longed for. Not a rebooted TOS, but in an authentic vein that picked up where TOS had left off.

Here was a chance not only to give us more of what had engrossed so many of us way back when, but also the possibility to do some things TOS could have done with a bit more time, money and even daring. And early on it seemed as if STC were indeed doing that.

But, sadly, it became evermore apparent that STC’s intent wasn’t really to give us more authentic feeling TOS. Their real intent was for their production to be more like contemporary storytelling and more in the vein of the TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT era (1980s-2000s) and to set things up directly for TMP. And along the way they wanted to insert as many continuity references as possible to post TOS productions. In their own way they wanted to “fix” TOS to cement it more securely to later Trek continuity.

Suffice to say, no matter how good STC looked, this was a wrongheaded approach if you claim to aim for a measure of authenticity. As STC progressed it was clear it was being written with a distinct contemporary 21st century mindset rather than trying to emulate a 1960s mid 20th century mindset. It was made clear in how the characters were written and the dialogue scripted for them. They used language and terminology in a way that didn’t exist sixty years ago. As a result the familiar characters often enough didn’t speak and behave as we expected of them.

And you also cannot inject all sorts of material from later productions TOS’ creators could never have been aware of as if to prove they were gifted in somehow seeing Trek’s future in such specific and detailed ways. Not if you want a sense of authenticity.

It’s highly unlikely something like STC could be attempted again given the current restrictions imposed on fan films. It’s a shame because STC almost and could have pulled it off, but now it’s unlikely anyone will or can give it another try. This is particularly disappointing given the current state of the franchise. STC came along when I thought the franchise was already a pile of rubble, but it’s arguably even worse now as the current powers-that-be haven’t a fucking clue of what they’re doing.

 

[Bixby]

you might have to blame STC's "success" raising money with Kickstarter as a reason for their stumbling all over the place...They ended up having to please too many people who suddenly had their two cents' worth of opinions...

 

[Warped9]

you might have to blame STC's "success" raising money with Kickstarter as a reason for their stumbling all over the place...They ended up having to please too many people who suddenly had their two cents' worth of opinions...

There could well have been some of that, but looking over the whole production from beginning to end it’s pretty clear they had an overall plan in mind. This is a very contemporary mindset in contrast to how TOS was produced. Episodic television usually didn’t have an over arcing plan for a given season or even series. The most they did was try to keep the setting, characters and world-building reasonably consistent from episode to episode and season to season while telling standalone stories that didn’t really need to be seen in any given order. This made it a lot easier for new viewers to tune in midstream because they didn’t have to know what happened before to get up to speed.

When many of us questioned why Elise McKennah as ship’s Counsellor was being inserted the TOS dynamic we didn't (yet) understand her purpose was to set up Spock’s rationalization for leaving Starfleet prior to TMP. Thats it. McKennah brought nothing else to the show that couldn’t be fulfilled by McCoy or Uhura or a semi-regular ship’s psychiatrist. Her whole point was to establish a bond with Spock so that her eventual death would compel Spock to resign Starfleet and seek to purge himself of all emotion. Thats long term planning of a kind you never would have seen on TOS. They wanted to explain something that had never been addressed in TMP or anytime afterward.

The same applies to Barbara Smith. They didn’t just want to introduce another semi-regular lower decks type character into the TOS dynamic. They specifically chose a largely nondescript throwaway character that tied directly back to a storyline they wanted to revisit and featured her enough so she would be integral to that future story.

It would be interesting to know how many of STC’s stories were conceived early on, maybe even from the beginning, even if only in broad strokes. We do know they initially planned for about thirteen episodes, but scaled it back when Axanar ran afoul of Paramount. I wonder what those untold stories would have been.

 

[Bixby]

I don't know when Kipleigh Brown and James Kerwin started dating, but if it was before filming on Fairest Of Them All, I would guess one brought the other in and that was when Brown's role was clarified and her involvement in a "sequel to Gary Mitchell" was being developed.

I don't know about McKennah and Spock...When Spock was portrayed in OG Trek in an attraction with women (for example Droxine and the Romulan Commander) it was very clear from the start that he felt attraction, despite the celebrated Vulcan lack of emotions. Thus it just felt odd to see him and McKennah being all of a sudden in a flirtation when he displayed nothing of the sort in all the previous episodes. Bringing them together just felt like a last minute thing...

I'm ok that she was brought in to add a little more gender balance to the crew, less so that she pushed out some previously established relationships. There wasn't even any occasional Sulu/Chekov banter, for pete's sakes...

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Now in fairness most fan productions are essentially adult cosplay for fun. It's playing dress-up on a somewhat more elaborate than usual scale. To that end you just roll with it for fun. But when something puts itself forward as being a cut or two above the usual cosplay then don't be surprised if expectations are set somewhat higher.

Agreed. The same applies to most Westerns ever put before cameras, with the delivery and wording of scripts having characters either sounding like the production era of the film, or Hollywood-ized version of 18th/19th century language would be employed. It can take one out of a film, if you are familiar with the speech patterns of an era. As you point out, STC suffers from this kind of issue from time to time.

This was one of my gripes when watching STC. I felt McCoy got shortchanged thanks to McKennah, not that I didn't like the character. It's just something that never would have happened during TOS.

Even if the series did not focus so much on McKennah, McCoy lost his TOS prominence, coming off like a guest star, instead of one of the three star characters of Star Trek.

Yep, one of the things that bugged me as they progressed. This wasn't what many of us were hoping to get.

As I said upthread although Chuck Huber looked sorta/remotely more like Deforest Kelley I actually preferred Larry Nemecek's performance. He seemed more at ease and less forced. And he didn't come across as grouchy--a cliche too many seem to buy into about McCoy.

Well put; the "dammit, Jim" / "grouchy" McCoy is one of the most exaggerated perceptions about ST in general. Its almost as though some watched sitcom parodies of TOS, rather than the real series.

Grant Imahara seemed rarely at ease as if he was carried away by the excitement of being in the production. Yeah, these people are never going to replace the original cast, but some just don't click as well as others.

Imahara's delivery appeared to suffer from the tendency of some fans to lean into decades' worth of parody and in this case, Takei's own "Ohh, myyy!"-esque schtick. Imahara's Sulu may not have used Takei's worn expression, but he certainly caricatured Takei the media figure, not TOS Sulu.

Wyatt Lenhart as Chekov was mostly okay, but he could come across as a bit awkward as if he was playing Chekov as trying too hard to make an impression. Walter Koenig didn't play it that way after his earliest appearances and even then it was more subtle.

Agreed.

I have no complaints with Kipleigh Brown as Smith given she was reprising a one-off character with next to no screen presence. The original Yeoman Smith could have been anybody. The only issue is she basically crowded out Sulu and Chekov, but in deference to her she came across as a more talented performer.

She did, and I'd have to guess Smith was only added to STC to flesh her out enough to place her in an important role in the STC finale, which--of course--is a sequel or continuation of the second pilot, more than any other TOS episode.