Spoilers Superman (2025) Grade and Discussion

[The Realist]

Then within the world of the film...

Lex Luthor was right? And Superman has to completely disown his birth parents, who in every previous incarnation had been just as vital to him as his adoptive parents, in order to have his happy ending?

That's still pretty cynical to me, absent any real world implications.

This doesn’t follow to me. In the context of the film, Luthor is dead wrong about Superman. Whatever his birth parents’ attitudes may have been don’t enter into it. Luthor hated Superman because of his alienness and his superiority (the latter being his primary motivation, as Luthor flat-out admits — it’s jealousy more than anything truly ideological). But as Jonathan says, it’s Superman’s personal actions and individual choices that ultimately define who he is.

 

[Firebird]

Then within the world of the film...

Lex Luthor was right? And Superman has to completely disown his birth parents, who in every previous adaptation had been just as vital to him as his adoptive parents, in order to have his happy ending?

That's still pretty cynical to me, absent any real world implications.

I think the message with Superman and his adoptive parents is more about the value of found family, which is something I think a lot of people with troubled family history can relate to these days.

The through-line of Superman growing up idolizing parents he never really knew, only to have to confront the truth about who they really were as people is also a resonant message.

To me, I don't see it as being cynical in the least.

 

[Mudd]

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[Ceridwen]

I think the message with Superman and his adoptive parents is more about the value of found family, which is something I think a lot of people with troubled family history can relate to these days.

The through-line of Superman growing up idolizing parents he never really knew, only to have to confront the truth about who they really were as people is also a resonant message.

To me, I don't see it as being cynical in the least.

I guess.

This is the eighth Superman movie (or tenth, if we're including the team ups like BvS or Justice League). It's hard to divorce this one from the others, even if it's supposed to be a "brand new" thing, especially when it insists on reusing the music and titles and a lot of the production design from the '78 film.

I guess it's my own failing if I can't shake the gross feeling of this change, but I can't.

 

[Guy Gardener]

That didn't work for me - some clearly Russian country bordering seem vaguely middle east/maybe Africa country?? Seemed confused.

Also Hawkgirl killing the president means that people are right about metahumans - humans are not in control.

Calling a mundane Alien a Metahuman is problematic to me, but what is Hawkgirl?

Alien cop?
5000 year old Egyptian Warrior priestess?
The mostly human reincarnation of an ancient Egyptian warrior priestess?
Metahuman?
Metahuman with tech?
Human with tech?
Human with magic stuff?

If she's 5000 years old, or been sent there by an advanced alien civilization (Just like Guy and Kal) to enforce draconian alien space justice on Earth, then she is above the law.

But if she's the foothold to an alien invasion AGAIN, then Shiera is just getting started butchering humans city by city, and she is exactly the threat Lex think's that Superman is.

This may be sexism?

Or no one is threatened by anyone who is only 5 foot 1.

 

[JoeZhang]

Random thought - I wonder if it in a previous cut there was more on the "boatman" - alien? Grown?

 

[Mudd]

 

[CorporalCaptain]

One of the most interesting motifs of the film for me is that Gunn's Superman isn't coming off as a god among mortals. He's coming off as a human with super powers, a metahuman.

It's always been understood that Superman is vulnerable. Previous versions have shown him to have tunnel vision because of his lawful goodness, an imperfection that follows from his perfection, so to speak.

But Superman being governed simply by his earnest desire to save lives and being completely unable to justify his actions otherwise, this is a new take, AFAIK.

And whether it's perfect or imperfect, the revised Krypton backstory allows for a decision between starkly distinct alternatives: Superman is one of us as opposed to one of them. I can even take Superman's speech to Luthor at the end about being imperfect as a self-referential comment about the movie itself: the value espoused is about heart and valuing people regardless of their background, not checking all the correct boxes on an ideologically driven list. If we're discussing message, I see this as a very timely and positive message. The message of tolerating an imperfect messenger, ditto.

 

[Mudd]

A little thing about tone that I enjoyed was that the personalities of Jor-El and Lara never came off as malevolent or evil individuals; just a riff on the Dumb Parents With Bad Ideas trope. They seem very sincere in loving and wanting the best for their kid.

"What's wrong with that? This is how we've always done it."

You know, one of the pieces of illogic that bugged me about Man of Steel - and this isn't a thing that's so much a flaw in that movie as a generic flaw in these kinds of movies - was wondering how myopic the Kryptonians had to be to think that Zod was a civilizational good for anyone.

"Here, we've commanded the cosmos for as far as we can see, for longer than memory. We have created a perfect society. Now, just in case something goes badly wrong - I don't know, what if we had such a thing as enemies - we ought to design an irrational genocidal maniac and invest all defense weaponry and power in him."

"Sure, that sounds reasonable. What else would we do?"

 

[1001001]

Just got back.

We loved it. Heart, humor, danger in all the right places. Just terrific.

Angry monkeys on the internet.

Krypto is the best. He and Eagly need to have a buddy movie.

A+

 

[JoeZhang]

There is a clue early on that the second half of the message will be dodgy when Jor-El says "we love you more than land..."

 

[The Realist]

I guess.

This is the eighth Superman movie (or tenth, if we're including the team ups like BvS or Justice League). It's hard to divorce this one from the others, even if it's supposed to be a "brand new" thing, especially when it insists on reusing the music and titles and a lot of the production design from the '78 film.

I guess it's my own failing if I can't shake the gross feeling of this change, but I can't.

I wouldn’t consider it a failing. I’m pretty politically-minded myself, and as I said in my initial response to you, I think the less-generous reading of that particular thematic aspect has some validity. But I don’t think it’s absolute, just one possible reading. Nor do I think it was the message intended in any way, and it definitely doesn’t spoil the film for me. I hope for your own enjoyment you might eventually come to feel the same way.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think the message with Superman and his adoptive parents is more about the value of found family, which is something I think a lot of people with troubled family history can relate to these days.

The through-line of Superman growing up idolizing parents he never really knew, only to have to confront the truth about who they really were as people is also a resonant message.

To me, I don't see it as being cynical in the least.

Well said.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

David Corenswet's insight on the change works for me:

“I feel like anybody who has lost a parent has probably had that experience of discovering something of theirs after the fact that changes their idea of what their parent thought about themselves or about their life. And it can be quite a destabilizing experience to have this pristine image of a person who you love and who loved you and be even just subtly undermined. It kind of opens the door for like, ‘Well, what else am I believing that isn’t true?’ or ‘What else am I taking on faith that might get pulled out from under me?’ I think the thing that Superman becomes clear about at the end of this film is that he needs to rely on the people who he has around him ultimately, on Lois and on his parents and on Krypto and on his friends, Mr. Terrific, and not rely so much on his ideas of who he is or who he should be, but more on who his friends think he is and need him to be. And that’s, I think, a great lesson to learn. But it also leaves open as he goes on, like, there are other things to be discovered and other assumptions to be shook in.”​

 

[Mudd]

Krypto is the best. He and Eagly need to have a buddy movie.

"Dude!"

 

[Samurai8472]

I felt there was a bit too much Gunn influence. Usually the sequel or 2nd time they're directing is when directors really get to cut loose( Thor Love and Thunder, Batman VS Superman)

-The ending with the music closing out the movie
-The squishy eye/bodily fluids thing
-The squirrels were like those rats Baby Groot chased

Lex figuring out pocket universe tech was a "What?". IMO I would have had him say he bought it off the black market(Manheim --> Darkseid boom tube tech)

I could have done without the daily planet scooby doo gang.

 

[1001001]

"Dude!"

“Get the toy!”

 

[Mudd]

It's interesting that, for the first three days at least, those very high rankings have held up (they've each dropped a point or two. Verified Viewer rankings from 96 to 940.

And that our votes here so far run parallel - around 93+% very high.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I have never bought into the idea some fans have a central part of the mythos is the tragedy in Krypton destruction was it was perfect utopia. I do not care what version, going back to beginning no on the council believes Jor-El! They ignored their own looming demise. Kryptonians had a hugely flawed culture. Most versions that claim otherwise ignored their own text. Not just Zod, all versions. The very idea of the Phantom Zone is very messed up. It’s living in Hell. Really the use of Krypton in most stories is Superman having to deal with the side effects of its mistakes.

 

[Relayer1]

I know the conflict people have identified it with I am talking about what is actually onscreen.

Long term close ally / proxy of America supplied with masses of modern weaponry seizing third world arab neighbour doesn't read Russia / Ukraine to me, but we do view things through the lens of our worldview I suppose.