Spoilers Russell T. Davies Returns to Doctor Who as New Showrunner

[Qonundrum]

Well you see, RTD couldn't have a male Doctor dressed in slightly feminine clothes because of how it would be reported in the news...

In a show that's six decades old that's known for actors changing roles in a way that the new actor wears the same outfit (or very heavily implied) as the predecessor leaving, known as "regeneration"?

I've actually been hearing a lot about this "Died of Cringe" thing the past day or so, seeing it posted here made me decide, what the hell, I'll check it out.

Meh. "Doctor Who, yes it's still on" and "A CGI monster destroying the whole of London again" were alright lines which did make me smile. And the one playing Kate actually does a reasonably well impersonation of Jemma Redgrave, but that was otherwise a rather forgettable means of complaining over the show having diversity.

Audio podcast that starts with the wrong theme, oddly, couldn't they get a 20-piece high school band to do it instead of digging up bits of the theme made four decades ago? The all-orchestra stuff would a lot more like the current one too. But even the Doctor more often sounds like Capaldi. But if the show is feeling so worn out, theme and all, that even these parodies feel just as fatigued?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Well you see, RTD couldn't have a male Doctor dressed in slightly feminine clothes because of how it would be reported in the news...

Which is just fucking bullshit. (Not directed at you, Ray.) I've seen men cosplay as Jodie at conventions, just as I've seen women cosplaying as the male Doctors over the years.

The funny thing is, I never really saw Jodie's outfit as "feminine." When I saw the promo shots of it, my first thought was, "Yeah, okay, I can see Matt Smith in that." In other words, it felt Doctor-ish to me, not gendered.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

The extra ironic thing is that Ncuti regenerated wearing a skirt.

 

[jaime]

Let’s not forget it’s *in the same episode* that Sacha Dhawan wore that same outfit. But Tennant would look silly, or it would be disrespectful…

But not as disrespectful as having the next Doctor turn up and spend his time like he’d forgot his PE kit and was being made to do it in his pants.

Rusty Dee has *issues*.

 

[Jayson1]

Cover of the new DWM. Not looking good for the 'she's definitely the Doctor' folks.



And am I crazy or is that clearly her head stuck on Gatwa's body with the arm recoloured?

I am thinking the question mark to the question also makes it suspect.

 

[jaime]

I am thinking the question mark to the question also makes it suspect.

My likely to be untrue suspicion is that we are actually keeping Gatwa if they find a way. This is a get out clause and a pause to drum up interest.

 

[Jayson1]

Why would they keep Gatwa? The ratings were bad with him as the Doctor and without RTD around I just don't see it. Seems to make more sense IMO to wait a few years then come in with a fresh start. New Doctor and New Showrunner. They for sure IMO need at least enough time to pass for people to actually miss the Show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I am thinking the question mark to the question also makes it suspect.

Hyping the mystery? Marketing 101.

 

[jaime]

Why would they keep Gatwa? The ratings were bad with him as the Doctor and without RTD around I just don't see it. Seems to make more sense IMO to wait a few years then come in with a fresh start. New Doctor and New Showrunner. They for sure IMO need at least enough time to pass for people to actually miss the Show.

Didn’t say I think it would be a good idea. Just that it’s a possibility I am suspicious of. Especially with a whole other bit of story in the can. There’s enough *not* being said, and a plausible way to have Piper be the interim cover — once funding is settled, maybe there’s a handshake deal that they will ask him back, if he’s available. If not, new Doctor. (Either way I would say it’s time to get Tennant back and put the spare Doctor aspect to bed, it’s damaging narratively.) We’ve seen the regenerate into the same body shtick before.

Don’t necessarily think it should happen, don’t think it will happen. But I can see how it could, and there are some things pointing that way.

Frankly, it’s more likely no one has a Scoobedy what is going on, and the bad stuck on Billie head is what it is, as is all the half-truths in interviews and articles.

 

[Starkers]

Why would they keep Gatwa?

Because he was awesome?

And the ratings still need to be taken in the context of terrestrial ratings in general, wherein I still believe Who does reasonably well comparatively speaking. Is it the ratings behemoth it once was? No, but let's be honest it hasn't been since the first half of Whittaker's first season, and that was a sharp upswing after several seasons of declining ratings under Capaldi.

Setting aside co-production/streaming partnerships I think the BBC has four options.

1. Let the show die. End it and make it clear it's never coming back. Unlikely.

2. Put it on hiatus, and not a year or two's hiatus, make it clear it'll be at least 5 years before it comes back. Possible, but you do have to worry about this being a cancellation by default. One can imagine a scenario whereby in ten years time vague messages about Who's return keep eking out but no one seems to be doing anything. Then it's twenty years....and so on and so forth.

3. Carry on as you are. You keep making the show but accept that it's never going to be as popular as it once was because there's way more competition now. You accept it is a middle ranked show that still attracts millions of viewers (just 3 instead of 7 million) and you tailor your expectations and your budget accordingly. Personally I think this is the way to go. Frankly if you offered me a season every year that was on the whole as entertaining as the last two seasons have been, I'd be happy with that, and you hope the show plays itself back into form/gets lucky with it's casting and finds itself with a new Ten/Donna Eleven/Amy/Rory dynamic and becomes super popular again.

4. The BBC double down. Who is a big show and needs to continue to be seen as a big show. You get a new streaming partner and you throw money at it. Get a name to play the Doctor, maybe get a new showrunner, new writers etc. It's an option for sure, but feels like a case of the gambler's fallacy/sunk cost fallacy (not quite sure which fallacy fits best). It may be that whoever writes the show and whoever is the Doctor, it just can't ever be quite as popular as it once was.

And yes I'm self aware enough to realise that my preference for option three is possibly me just putting my hands over my ears and going "na na na not listening' or being this meme in human form



Except I think things are fine. Not brilliant, not amazing, but certainly fine. I still find the show enjoyable (for the most part). Do I wish RTD was a little less RTD at times sure, have I enjoyed Ncuti's run way more than Whittaker's, absolutely.

 

[jaime]

Because he was awesome?

And the ratings still need to be taken in the context of terrestrial ratings in general, wherein I still believe Who does reasonably well comparatively speaking. Is it the ratings behemoth it once was? No, but let's be honest it hasn't been since the first half of Whittaker's first season, and that was a sharp upswing after several seasons of declining ratings under Capaldi.

Setting aside co-production/streaming partnerships I think the BBC has four options.

1. Let the show die. End it and make it clear it's never coming back. Unlikely.

2. Put it on hiatus, and not a year or two's hiatus, make it clear it'll be at least 5 years before it comes back. Possible, but you do have to worry about this being a cancellation by default. One can imagine a scenario whereby in ten years time vague messages about Who's return keep eking out but no one seems to be doing anything. Then it's twenty years....and so on and so forth.

3. Carry on as you are. You keep making the show but accept that it's never going to be as popular as it once was because there's way more competition now. You accept it is a middle ranked show that still attracts millions of viewers (just 3 instead of 7 million) and you tailor your expectations and your budget accordingly. Personally I think this is the way to go. Frankly if you offered me a season every year that was on the whole as entertaining as the last two seasons have been, I'd be happy with that, and you hope the show plays itself back into form/gets lucky with it's casting and finds itself with a new Ten/Donna Eleven/Amy/Rory dynamic and becomes super popular again.

4. The BBC double down. Who is a big show and needs to continue to be seen as a big show. You get a new streaming partner and you throw money at it. Get a name to play the Doctor, maybe get a new showrunner, new writers etc. It's an option for sure, but feels like a case of the gambler's fallacy/sunk cost fallacy (not quite sure which fallacy fits best). It may be that whoever writes the show and whoever is the Doctor, it just can't ever be quite as popular as it once was.

And yes I'm self aware enough to realise that my preference for option three is possibly me just putting my hands over my ears and going "na na na not listening' or being this meme in human form

View attachment 47212

Except I think things are fine. Not brilliant, not amazing, but certainly fine. I still find the show enjoyable (for the most part). Do I wish RTD was a little less RTD at times sure, have I enjoyed Ncuti's run way more than Whittaker's, absolutely.

Option 3 is absolutely correct.
Though I think the Beeb are worried with the licensing coming up for review again in 2027.

 

[Jayson1]

Because he was awesome?

And the ratings still need to be taken in the context of terrestrial ratings in general, wherein I still believe Who does reasonably well comparatively speaking. Is it the ratings behemoth it once was? No, but let's be honest it hasn't been since the first half of Whittaker's first season, and that was a sharp upswing after several seasons of declining ratings under Capaldi.

Setting aside co-production/streaming partnerships I think the BBC has four options.

1. Let the show die. End it and make it clear it's never coming back. Unlikely.

2. Put it on hiatus, and not a year or two's hiatus, make it clear it'll be at least 5 years before it comes back. Possible, but you do have to worry about this being a cancellation by default. One can imagine a scenario whereby in ten years time vague messages about Who's return keep eking out but no one seems to be doing anything. Then it's twenty years....and so on and so forth.

3. Carry on as you are. You keep making the show but accept that it's never going to be as popular as it once was because there's way more competition now. You accept it is a middle ranked show that still attracts millions of viewers (just 3 instead of 7 million) and you tailor your expectations and your budget accordingly. Personally I think this is the way to go. Frankly if you offered me a season every year that was on the whole as entertaining as the last two seasons have been, I'd be happy with that, and you hope the show plays itself back into form/gets lucky with it's casting and finds itself with a new Ten/Donna Eleven/Amy/Rory dynamic and becomes super popular again.

4. The BBC double down. Who is a big show and needs to continue to be seen as a big show. You get a new streaming partner and you throw money at it. Get a name to play the Doctor, maybe get a new showrunner, new writers etc. It's an option for sure, but feels like a case of the gambler's fallacy/sunk cost fallacy (not quite sure which fallacy fits best). It may be that whoever writes the show and whoever is the Doctor, it just can't ever be quite as popular as it once was.

And yes I'm self aware enough to realise that my preference for option three is possibly me just putting my hands over my ears and going "na na na not listening' or being this meme in human form

View attachment 47212

Except I think things are fine. Not brilliant, not amazing, but certainly fine. I still find the show enjoyable (for the most part). Do I wish RTD was a little less RTD at times sure, have I enjoyed Ncuti's run way more than Whittaker's, absolutely.

I think he has been good in the role as well but we seem to be in the minority if the ratings are to go by. Not sure it makes sense business wise to bring him or RTD back.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I liked Ncuti fine in the role, though never felt that he got *that* scene which solidified him as The Doctor. I would be quite happy if the opening scenes of the next episode showed Billie’s face flickering back to his and him saying “huh, that’s never happened before” or something like that. But I really very much doubt that there is any prospect of him returning to the role.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Because he was awesome?

Yep.

 

[Jayson1]

Malcolm Reynolds was awesome as well. Didn't save his show from being cancelled.

 

[Rich Watson]

Just saw the newsstand version of the DWM cover (the other was the textless subscriber version) and it says in the description of the contents "Russell T Davies on pathways to potential futures..."

They really did do the ending with zero definite ideas on what happens next.

 

[jaime]

Just saw the newsstand version of the DWM cover (the other was the textless subscriber version) and it says in the description of the contents "Russell T Davies on pathways to potential futures..."

They really did do the ending with zero definite ideas on what happens next.

‘I’m writing season 4 now, I’v written Season 3 and it’s wonderful!’

(Montage of sun setting, moon rising, moon setting, sun rising, speeding through..)

‘I have no idea what comes after season 2, isn’t it exciting!’

Sod it. Just bring back the Candyman as a CGI Kaiju for five minutes whilst having Petrol scream about she’s an Enby Asexual and that’s like space magic, whilst dressed as Marilyn Monroe kissing the face off of Billie Piper, and reveal ‘Grandfather’ is actually the Gallifreyan word for ‘mini-cab driver’. That oughta do it Rusty. Then wrap up with some dancing and bring back David Tennant doing his Pet Shop Boys bit again.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

The fuck is wrong with you?

 

[jaime]

The fuck is wrong with you?

Nothing. I was making fun of the situation, how RTD talks about things, and how he does his finales now — CGI return monster, complete misunderstanding of what certain modern political/gender/sexuality concepts even are, contradiction between dialogue and what is happening on screen, and a callback to his own original run thrown in.

Did I miss out the bit where a token differently-abled person gets weapons or cheesey bond gadgets thrown into their mobility device?

It’s ok to like a thing overall and still poke fun at it, or fairly or humourously criticise it when it’s not living up to its own potential or history. It’s basically what being a fan is.

You seem to like the Shatnerverse novels by your sig there — so do I. A lot. More than a lot of the main Trek lit line. Doesn’t mean I don’t know there’s a chunk of OP Kirk ego trip in them, or that if you read them and Imzadi II together it makes the day after Veridian III into the busiest day in history for half the characters.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Nothing. I was making fun of the situation, how RTD talks about things,

That's proper showrunner talk, and that's how RTD has always been as a showrunner. Nothing different here.

and how he does his finales now — CGI return monster, complete misunderstanding of what certain modern political/gender/sexuality concepts even are, contradiction between dialogue and what is happening on screen, and a callback to his own original run thrown in.

That's a lot personal grudges there.

Did I miss out the bit where a token differently-abled person gets weapons or cheesey bond gadgets thrown into their mobility device?

Like, if you're gonna be offended by harmeless campy moments like these, what's the point?

It’s ok to like a thing overall and still poke fun at it, or fairly or humourously criticise it when it’s not living up to its own potential or history. It’s basically what being a fan is.

Sure, but at its core, your criticism of RTD2, as indeed most of the posters here, seems to be tepid and shallow, at best.

You seem to like the Shatnerverse novels by your sig there — so do I. A lot. More than a lot of the main Trek lit line. Doesn’t mean I don’t know there’s a chunk of OP Kirk ego trip in them, or that if you read them and Imzadi II together it makes the day after Veridian III into the busiest day in history for half the characters.

No argument there. But the tangent between this and your daily shitting on RTD2 is eons apart.