What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[fireproof78]

First of all, I don't think we're supposed to like Section 31 from an operational standpoint. They clearly operate in a black operations/plausible deniability realm that many real world agencies have, except they usually have both official and classified operations under one roof. Star Trek, like it is want to do, places all the skullduggery under one umbrella term, in which Section 31 is neither confirmed, nor denied, and utilizes its assets as needed.

Now, I do appreciate having Section 31 because it fixes a rather annoying problem in Star Trek that many admirals and leaders are either evil, or prone to conspiracy. That is such an odd look for an organization that allows people remain in a posting as long as they like so long as it works, but as soon as you become upper leadership you grow evil? That is not encouraging as an organization.

This isn't me saying all bad things done by Starfleet is a Section 31 conspiracy but only that it is nice to have some influence that causes the high rate of bad admirals than just the obsession with being a captain.

 

[Paul755]

I didn’t mind Section 31 in DS9 or even Enterprise. But making it a well known, out in the open organization in Disco was a big mistake.

 

[cooleddie74]

A mistake, and a stupid, narratively clumsy one.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I suspect that, as a concept, it might have done better if they got consultants who were actually familiar with the intelligence community to help them write the stories. They had a rare opportunity to do that for the S31 show. They clearly dropped the ball and it probably never even occurred to them to hire someone who knows that world.

 

[Tosk]

I don't think that intelligently written espionage was ever even on the whiteboard for the Section 31 movie.

Or if it was, they erased it to make room for potential "Yo mama" jokes.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

If they wanted a proper espionage show they'd make Starfleet Intelligence. They just wanted to make Suicide Squad.

 

[Farscape One]

The current era of writers for the franchise just don't understand Section 31, which is why they have failed so badly using them. Section 31 should not be used in the current era again.

 

[knightgrace]

Consider the 'original' concept of 'James Bond'...

He isn't a "spy", he is a continuation of the British Special Operations Executive idea that preceeded WW II. The purpose was trouble shooting, before things got out of hand.
If you know that a bad actor exists, then before things go South, it is better to take care of the problem, soonest.

If that fails, then the next step up, is larger operation, using maybe about a dozen people. The problem with this is that their actions are more likely to become public knowledge.

Then there is actual open warfare. It goes deep South from there.

Ian Fleming posited that the number of double oughts, was purposely small. Not unlimited. Because that IS actual warfare.

The United Federation of Planets, has at any one time multiple problems to deal with. Some are easily delt with, by a limited actual action. Most probably can be delt with by something like the Royal Canadian Mounted Police...

But if continuous failures occur, then more aggressive action may be required.

Why did I bring up the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Canada didn't make the same mistake that the US did. After all, we have tales of the wild, wild west...

Where there was little to no law enforcement...

How many people died unnecessary deaths because of this?

And the Galaxy is the wild, wild west.

 

[at Quark's]

I agree about Section 31. It's contrary to the concept of the Federation as a place where's truth and rule of law. And it always strained belief that Section 31 could have remained secret, especially now that Every Single Star Trek Show has to have some Section 31 agents.

"Moonlight" has grown on me, though.

I'm torn about Section 31.

That is, I don't like the agency itself, and how contrary it is to the entire utopian idea of the UFP. Also agree they couldn't have both fully autonomous and secret over 3 centuries.

But the existence of Section 31 did acknowledge the idea that in some situations, someone will have to do the dirty work, if your state is to survive. As is one of the central ideas of In the Pale Moonlight.

Granted, Section 31 did way more than that - far too much, if you asked me. (Certainly if you look at the way more modern series have exploited the concept. )

 

[Rahul]

The big problem with S31 is that is the first, and so far only "named" spy agency on Star Trek. Double points for the spys wearing cool, dark leather outfits.

Apart from that we only ever received "mission briefs from Starfleet intelligence".
That didn't sound cool.

As a result, that makes S31 the "default Star Trek spy agency" on any cool new spy stories for writer's who don't care. Despite it really don't fitting with the original premise.

Had we had a "black ops Starfleet division" before, that one would have been used, and S31 being left alone since DS9.

But alas, the current crop of writers is allergic to inventing anything on their own, be it alien races, characters or divisions. Better to slap a familiar name on it, even if it doesn't fit.

 

[Shawnster]

Their intelligence agency is Starfleet Intelligence

Who are they? Starfleet? Yes, Starfleet Intelligence is Starfleet's intelligence division (taken from the department of redundancy department).

But that's like dismissing the FBI, CIA, and NSA because US military branches have intelligence departments such as INSCOM or Oni.

If they wanted a proper espionage show they'd make Starfleet Intelligence. They just wanted to make Suicide Squad.

Then make Suicide Squad. The Dirty Dozen wasn't an operation directed by a secret intelligence division.

They could have made Section 31 a rogue (or not so) rogue part of Starfleet Intelligence, but they did not. Instead, they created a new entity.

 

[ananta]

I hate the idea of Section 31 as introduced in DS9

I don’t mind the idea of S31, and it made for a couple of good episodes.

But I hate the way it’s been catnip for subsequent writers (having been featured on Enterprise, Discovery, the Kelvin films and had its own ill advised movie).

It’s a little heartbreaking to me that for all the brilliant contributions DS9 made to the franchise, the one thing that has stuck is feckin’ Section 31.

For the love of the Prophets, LET IT GO NOW!!!

 

[cooleddie74]

DS9: Great usage of the concept, the best in the franchise.
ENT: Not as good, but the prequel S31 serviced its particular episodes effectively and gave off a nice creepy vibe.
STID: Ugh.
DSC: Double ugh.
S31: See above, then double.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

What I don't like is the constant depiction this agency is corrupt, evil, or seemingly operating outside any governmental authority. This agency is no different than any US intelligence agency such as the FBI, CIA, or NSA.

StarFleet Intelligence would be a closer analogy to ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence).
Yes I get the irony that ONI was a big part of Halo lore, I didn't forget you guys!

Section 31's only equivalent would be SD-6 from the ALIAS TV show.

It's also silly Section 31 is named after Section 31 of the Federation charter. Or, if that's what they want to call it, then it's silly that the agency is supposed to be ultra secret yet specified in the charter.

A name is a name, the good part about "Section 31" is that it'll be hard to easily search for it on any online database.

Just like "Anonymous" is hard to figure out because it's such a common word and it isn't one single organization or person who is hacking.

The same thing can apply to "Section 31", it's not 1x Organization or Cell, it can be multiple "Section 31" Divisions underneath a Command Division with Multiple Cells operating independently.

Then there can be multiple Organizations who call themselves "Section 31" who all act independently of each other on top of that.

It's also ludicrous that an ultra secret intelligence agency is going to have its own visible Starfleet badge that looks different than any other Starfleet badge.

Yeah, post Section 31 being a sub-section of StarFleet Intelligence, once they get ousted in the 23rd Century, they should NEVER EVER be using any StarFleet related iconography, logo, or tech from then on.

Anything Section 31 related after that time period should be 100% unique logo, tech, gear to them selves.

 

[137th Gebirg]

There should be no logos or anything that identifies someone as belonging to S31 in the field (or SFI, either, for that matter). Just simply nothing.

Period, full stop. The whole notion is just simply absurd on its face.

Anyone who's spent any time in the intelligence communities of any nation would know this simple rule. It's called "non-attribution".

 

[cooleddie74]

Did the KGB wear uniforms if a member was an officer? Yes. Did they wear them on assignment or during espionage? NO.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Correct. You would see the uniforms if they were attached to a military unit of some kind, particularly if they were serving as zampolit. That's how they maintained their authority over all the service personnel, including the unit commanders. If they were operating out in the field, nobody would (should) ever know.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I didn’t mind Section 31 in DS9 or even Enterprise. But making it a well known, out in the open organization in Disco was a big mistake.

It happened, so we have to deal with that consequence as part of the lore.

Did the KGB wear uniforms if a member was an officer? Yes. Did they wear them on assignment or during espionage? NO.

I 100% agree. Once you're out in the field on assignment, you don't wear any identifying marks.

When you're at base, I can understand the need for ID's, uniforms, etc.

The one thing that the Section 31 movie did right was wear disguises / civilian clothing.
Now some of those disguises was really bad (Smiling Vulcan, WTF were they thinking).

 

[XCV330]

the problem with having an organization like Section 31 in Discovery, so big it had its own fleet, is that you get relatively little time historically for people to just forget about the thing between DISCO and DS9. The UFP is shown to have a relatively free press, and has billions and billions of citizens. NO one mentioned it at all? (same goes for the loss of USS Discovery but less so)

There's simply no way that an organization that large, even if supposedly secret, that had already existed for over 100 years, would just vanish out of memory, and return in its much smaller variant that Bashir encountered, completely unknown. We still know about the Roman empire's secret police, so how would the galaxy forget this?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

the problem with having an organization like Section 31 in Discovery, so big it had its own fleet, is that you get relatively little time historically for people to just forget about the thing between DISCO and DS9. The UFP is shown to have a relatively free press, and has billions and billions of citizens. NO one mentioned it at all? (same goes for the loss of USS Discovery but less so)

ST: DIS takes place between 2258-2256 for the portion we care about
ST: DS9 takes place between 2369-2375
That's a 113 year time span.

IRL, we have kids who are teenagers right now who know "NOTHING" about 9/11 and that's a farely recent event in modern history.

Many people aren't students of history or don't really care.

This is on top of many pieces of info are purely digitized and easily edit-able.

That presents many issues moving foreward for data preservation.

Not to mention the eventual issue with Time Travel & Timeline Changes that will affect history.
But that's a whole other can of worms.

There's simply no way that an organization that large, even if supposedly secret, that had already existed for over 100 years, would just vanish out of memory, and return in its much smaller variant that Bashir encountered, completely unknown. We still know about the Roman empire's secret police, so how would the galaxy forget this?

Yeah, that's why a officer like Boimler would know about them.
The much smaller variant that Bashir encountered would be closer to a "Urban Legend" than fact.
There's no way to prove it for a average citizen or StarFleet Officer.

Short of actually encountering them, everything becomes a "Urban Myth".

That's what Section 31 in the modern day UFP of the 24th century and beyond would become.

A "Rumor, Whisper, Myth, Legend".