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Spoilers Andor - Season 2

Luthen is the cold operative the Rebels needed in order to get a future where such people were no longer necessary. I get why some fans think he's too brutal and unforgiving, but the Rebellion was teetering on a tightrope where it could have gone either way and all depending on whether or not the secret Imperial superweapon could be stopped.

In real life societies tolerate even worse to get to noble ends.
 
A comment on a Luthen video on YouTube hits hard and I can't say I really disagree with it.

"Thinking about it, Luthen is the perfect adversary for Sidious, two masterminds, both cunning, both manipulative, both hiding for years under the noses of their enemies and both willing to sacrifice anyone to get what they want, the only thing that seperates them: a desire for control and a desire for freedom."
 
Thats like your subjective opinion .

But for many of us the last jedi was complete festering shit.

The best starwars movie since 1980s was rogue one, also my subjective opinion.

For me Rouge One is the best Disney era movie.

As for Ryan Johnson, he's a good film maker. Knifes Out was great.
Star Wars fan or not he messed up on Last Jedi.

The need to subvert expectations in TLJ was a mistake.
Not saying you can't have your hero's make mistakes and stumble and lose their way. Think they took it a little too far with Luke.
Also the whole thing with Poe and Fin side plots just fell a little flat for me.

Whilst The Force Awakens is ANH rehash it did a good enough job setting up a new trilogy. I know many disliked what they did with Han Solo, I kinda like it. Whist he was no longer with Princess Leia and at a low point in life with what has happened to his son. He felt like the character still. He was still the Rouge with the heart of gold. And I liked the parallel he was now the mentor character like obi wan kenobi was ANH.
 
Luthen is the cold operative the Rebels needed in order to get a future where such people were no longer necessary. I get why some fans think he's too brutal and unforgiving, but the Rebellion was teetering on a tightrope where it could have gone either way and all depending on whether or not the secret Imperial superweapon could be stopped.

In real life societies tolerate even worse to get to noble ends.
For every clean hero like Luke or leia you need someone like Luthan willing to do the dirty work and get things done. Something I dont think Mon montha quite understands at time
 
For me Rouge One is the best Disney era movie.

As for Ryan Johnson, he's a good film maker. Knifes Out was great.
Star Wars fan or not he messed up on Last Jedi.

The need to subvert expectations in TLJ was a mistake.
Not saying you can't have your hero's make mistakes and stumble and lose their way. Think they took it a little too far with Luke.
Also the whole thing with Poe and Fin side plots just fell a little flat for me.

Whilst The Force Awakens is ANH rehash it did a good enough job setting up a new trilogy. I know many disliked what they did with Han Solo, I kinda like it. Whist he was no longer with Princess Leia and at a low point in life with what has happened to his son. He felt like the character still. He was still the Rouge with the heart of gold. And I liked the parallel he was now the mentor character like obi wan kenobi was ANH.
Johnson I thought done a great job with the 2 leads. The way he built their connection and gave a real sense that you didn't know where it was heading. I especially liked Rey being "no one". That was so important ti Star Wars going forward and they fuked it with more bloodlines nonsense.
Everything else about TLJ was poor and some moments were up there with Star Wars worst.

I agree on The Force Awakens. It's very enjoyable and I'm also not one for crying when the studio doesn't make things exactly like I pictured.
 
A comment on a Luthen video on YouTube hits hard and I can't say I really disagree with it.

"Thinking about it, Luthen is the perfect adversary for Sidious, two masterminds, both cunning, both manipulative, both hiding for years under the noses of their enemies and both willing to sacrifice anyone to get what they want, the only thing that seperates them: a desire for control and a desire for freedom."

I think Luthen demonstrates the limits of that approach in the end. Mon says she learned misdirection from Palpatine, but Luthen admits to using the tools of his enemy to defeat them. The trouble is, like Lorde said, you can’t destroy the master’s house with the tools he used to build it. You’ll just make another Empire.

Luthen was focused on his game against Palpatine, but the revolution was bigger than that. It was Nemik’s manifesto, Mon’s speech, the TIE tech. His methods isolated himself, willingly, even as the rebellion advanced beyond the point where isolated bombings and assasinations were the biggest wins they could get.

The thing that gets me is that Saw Gurrera was paranoid and violent, but he had his eyes on the prize much more than Luthen did. He reminded Wilmon, while high as balls, that they were working to get the Republic back. He valued the loyalty and trust that a free society needs. Luthen killed any ally at the drop of a hat, Tay, Lonni, nearly Cassian. Saw smuggled Galen Erso off Coruscant, then saved Jyn after Krennic found them.

If Luthen had been Galen’s friend, he would’ve killed him as soon as Galen asked for help because he realized he was making a weapon. Then there wouldn’t have been a man on the inside, the Death Star would’ve been finished anyway (Galen was convinced to his last day he’d already made all the necessary breakthroughs by the time he escaped and he was already redundant when Krennic captured him), but this time, if someone blew up something near the reactor, it’d have safeties and go into shut-down instead of being a giant Pinto and taking out the whole thing.

By the end, I think Luthen was a deficit to the rebellion, not an asset, and I think he understood that in a way, as he embraced his isolation and obsession with finding Palpatine’s secret and letting the alliance take over the fight. Cassian was right, Luthen had good and bad, and he protected the infant rebellion, but he would’ve destroyed it if he tried to be the man to grow it into adulthood. I don’t think people uncomplicatedly celebrating him as the necessary hard man who did hard things are wrestling with how the rebel’s biggest victories were in defiance of Luthen’s methods and ideals. Never mind Erso, Luthen wouldn’t have come back to give Luke cover during the last trench run. He probably would’ve given Red and Gold squads fake attack plans and just used the assault to cover his escape.
 
Johnson I thought done a great job with the 2 leads. The way he built their connection and gave a real sense that you didn't know where it was heading. I especially liked Rey being "no one". That was so important ti Star Wars going forward and they fuked it with more bloodlines nonsense.
Everything else about TLJ was poor and some moments were up there with Star Wars worst.

I agree on The Force Awakens. It's very enjoyable and I'm also not one for crying when the studio doesn't make things exactly like I pictured.
I used to feel that way. But I have two major problems with "Rogue One". First, I thought the movie's pacing for the first 20 minutes rather rushed. It seemed as if the screenwriters were in too big of a hurry to set up the film. And I found the actual theft of the Death Star plans on Scarif convoluted at best . . . like Luke Skywalker's plan to rescue Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt in "Return of the Jedi". Like I said . . . convoluted.

It's ironic that I found the pacing for "Rogue One" too fast in the beginning, and the pacing around the first half of both seasons in "Andor" too slow.

I dislike "The Force Awakens" as a whole. I thought it was unoriginal and full of plot holes. But I did like the sequence that began with Finn and Rey's meeting and ended with theirs, Han and Chewie's arrival at Takodona.

Rey as a "nobody" didn't work for me in a movie trilogy that was supposed to be part of "The Skywalker Saga". Then again, I didn't care for the revelation about her actual ancestry in "Rise of the Skywalker". Talk about a screw-up.
 
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Rogue One is better than I expected but is not great for me. The main characters are unlikable, irritable, and completely mistrusting to the point that you wonder how they work together.

It also does a good job of establishing the Alliance as a larger threat and what the Empire feared. But, it languished in convoluted plotting that, sadly, reflected Spaceballs as much as Vietnam and World War 2 infiltration films.
 
I mean....it's a guarded Imperial archive full of military secrets and blueprints inside hostile space. It should be difficult and convoluted for the Rebels in the film to get to the Death Star plans and steal them. But even so, it's not really that convoluted. The movie is a pretty straightforward heist plot, only instead of gold or money it's the schematics to the most powerful military weapon in that galaxy's history up to that point.
 
The first time I saw Rogue One I kinda hated it, but damn it gets better every time I watch it and now post Andor my latest watch was the most enjoyable yet.

I still have issues with it (a film made to close one plot hole that creates new plot holes in the process!) but damn, outside of TFA maybe it's my favourite modern Star Wars film (and by modern I'm including the prequels)
 
I was reasonably pleased with how this all turned out, all things considered, but I had expected more.

I remain in a state of semi-shock that they didn't do anything with the TIE Avenger after the third episode. I had convinced myself it was part of some grand plan and was going to be used later. The principle of Chekov's gun demanded it... (For those unfamiliar, not that Chekov!) I was thinking of the Marvel comics from back in the day, when the rebels stole a bunch of TIEs. (At first they didn't do anything with the plot point for a while but ultimately it led to the creation of Lumiya.)

I also thought there'd be more Saw in the second half. As with the TIE, I assumed the business with the rhydonium was gonna pay off somewhere down the road. And somehow we still haven't seen him lose his legs despite Rebels and Andor both having had the opportunity to go there.

Another thing I had expected was some kind of action-y ending. In S1 they knew they had to do that, but this time around was a different animal. I didn't know they were going to lead directly into R1 in the way that they did, so I assumed something was on its way in the final three episodes that would lead to a big action set piece of some kind in the finale. As such I wasn't exactly blown away by the final episode. Putting the confrontation with the tactical team at the beginning of episode 12, after building up to it all through episode 11, played about as well as starting a film with the death of Smaug. But without that episode 12 would have had no action at all!

And I have to admit I had been foolishly holding out hope for Vader. Since R1 did it, I thought it was at least possible, even though I realized Vader and/or Palpatine were extreme long shots. It was nonetheless surprising that this season eventually brought the Force front and center in the way that it did, contrasting with season 1's abstention. Luthen even suggests - in different words - that Cassian is an instrument of the will of the Force.

Finally, I incorrectly assumed something bad was going to happen to Mon's family, and that this would serve to further radicalize her.
 
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