One thing I especially hate in "In Theory" ...

[fireproof78]

Ooooooooh. That is a very valid point. But wasn't Kelvin Kirk's life way different than Prime's though?

It was, but one of the main influences shared in the film about Prime Kirk was Prime Kirk Senior. The major driving force was removed, and perhaps some hobbies were shared as well.

Pure speculation, but it's not entirely out of character. I mean, Bashir does spy holodeck adventures, Battle of the Alamo, as well as the fact that Sulu Prime appreciated pistols and one appeared on the "Shore Leave" Planet. So, firearms are not unknown in the 23rd century.

 

[StarTrek1701]

It was, but one of the main influences shared in the film about Prime Kirk was Prime Kirk Senior. The major driving force was removed, and perhaps some hobbies were shared as well.

Pure speculation, but it's not entirely out of character. I mean, Bashir does spy holodeck adventures, Battle of the Alamo, as well as the fact that Sulu Prime appreciated pistols and one appeared on the "Shore Leave" Planet. So, firearms are not unknown in the 23rd century.

I get that, like we in current time know about swords and shields.
But we are all Trek fans here, we gotta find something miniscule from every episode of every single TV, movie or comics about Star Trek, to bitch about.

 

[fireproof78]

I get that, like we in current time know about swords and shields.
But we are all Trek fans here, we gotta find something miniscule from every episode of every single TV, movie or comics about Star Trek, to bitch about.

We could also try finding small things to love.

 

[StarTrek1701]

We could also try finding small things to love.

2009 Enterprise was super massive. I loved that.
DSC tried to do something new, I liked that, but soured on the execution real fast.
PIC S3 was great.
LD was great until the last season.
SNW is great except a few things.
Academy (ACA?) still gonna watch it before passing judgement.

 

[fireproof78]

We could also try finding small things to love.

2009 Enterprise was super massive. I loved that.

 

[StarTrek1701]

It needed 8 cores in the warp drive!

 

[Alexander Corrino]

This episode sorely needed the perspective of Dr pulaski, that's for sure. She would have put it in the proper perspective for data. (I'm talking about the way their friendship ended not the way it started of course). She is the one person that could have explained it to data in a way that made sense. Would have called out Jenna for her crap too.

This. This is why I would have preferred for Pulaski to stick around. She would have been such a great friend and advisor for Data because she just tells him how things are. No sugarcoating. He clearly appreciates that sort of thing.

I also think he could benefit from a human friend who is a lot like him. I struggle a LOT with emotions and how to express them and how to read and interpret them in others. I know, "such were the times in which TNG was written", but I just cringe whenever they all tell Data "emotions are what being human is aaaaaaall about". There are humans who are a lot like Data, who process things logically instead of emotionally. And therefore I think such a person would be good for Data as a friend. To show him that he doesn't have to emulate emotions because "that's what you need to do to be seen as human". He can just be himself.

In a romantic relationship this whole thing CAN create struggles but honestly, it's often a compatibility issue. Just because Jenna was incompatible with Data doesn't mean it's Data's fault. If he found someone who could understand and process and relate to the way his mind works, things would be perfectly fine. He would probably also see no need to write weird romantic subroutines because the other person would understand him without doing so in the first place.

 

[Phoenix219]

This. This is why I would have preferred for Pulaski to stick around. She would have been such a great friend and advisor for Data because she just tells him how things are. No sugarcoating. He clearly appreciates that sort of thing.

I also think he could benefit from a human friend who is a lot like him. I struggle a LOT with emotions and how to express them and how to read and interpret them in others. I know, "such were the times in which TNG was written", but I just cringe whenever they all tell Data "emotions are what being human is aaaaaaall about". There are humans who are a lot like Data, who process things logically instead of emotionally. And therefore I think such a person would be good for Data as a friend. To show him that he doesn't have to emulate emotions because "that's what you need to do to be seen as human". He can just be himself.

In a romantic relationship this whole thing CAN create struggles but honestly, it's often a compatibility issue. Just because Jenna was incompatible with Data doesn't mean it's Data's fault. If he found someone who could understand and process and relate to the way his mind works, things would be perfectly fine. He would probably also see no need to write weird romantic subroutines because the other person would understand him without doing so in the first place.

Pulaski is one of my favorite characters. Like i said upthread, she didn't cripple Data with assumptions - she called him out on everything. Stop pouting. You're being insecure. Drop that i'm just an android schtick. I'll never understand the exaggeration of how "rude and mean" she was to him. she was confused when she meant him, but quickly became his biggest supporter. The only person in the entire cast/show that gave him credit for already being more than he thought he was. I would have loved to see her stubbornness and morality continue to play into the show's ethics. It was sorely needed. The first episode without her (nannites) would have been a direct continuation of that arc, and played into so many future Trek storylines. As she was a highly talented molecular biologist, I was very disappointed that she wasn't one of the "scientists" referenced during the final arc on Disco, and still get a chuckle out of Beverly not being able to pull off her memory wipe technique. And if she had still been on the show by S5 and S6, just seeing her with Spock and Scotty could have been hilarious. but now i'm going way off thread for this topic lol.

 

[fireproof78]

I also think he could benefit from a human friend who is a lot like him. I struggle a LOT with emotions and how to express them and how to read and interpret them in others. I know, "such were the times in which TNG was written", but I just cringe whenever they all tell Data "emotions are what being human is aaaaaaall about". There are humans who are a lot like Data, who process things logically instead of emotionally. And therefore I think such a person would be good for Data as a friend. To show him that he doesn't have to emulate emotions because "that's what you need to do to be seen as human". He can just be himself.

Indeed, yes. But, understanding emotions, even if he can't emulate them, is part of community. It's one of the biggest downsides to In Theory. There's not community; there's people launching platitudes at Data and then they are surprised he fails.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Pulaski is one of my favorite characters. Like i said upthread, she didn't cripple Data with assumptions - she called him out on everything. Stop pouting. You're being insecure. Drop that i'm just an android schtick. I'll never understand the exaggeration of how "rude and mean" she was to him. she was confused when she meant him, but quickly became his biggest supporter. The only person in the entire cast/show that gave him credit for already being more than he thought he was. I would have loved to see her stubbornness and morality continue to play into the show's ethics. It was sorely needed. The first episode without her (nannites) would have been a direct continuation of that arc, and played into so many future Trek storylines. As she was a highly talented molecular biologist, I was very disappointed that she wasn't one of the "scientists" referenced during the final arc on Disco, and still get a chuckle out of Beverly not being able to pull off her memory wipe technique. And if she had still been on the show by S5 and S6, just seeing her with Spock and Scotty could have been hilarious. but now i'm going way off thread for this topic lol.

I agree with everything you said. She's one of my favorite TNG characters and the main reason why season 2 is my favorite TNG season. For me as a JLP guy it's hilarious to see her constantly ruffling his pompous feathers, and I love that they do become friends in the end, like it is with her and Data also. I think the writers simply made a big mistake of having her be "rude" to the fan favorite when they introduced her. That's never a clever move. There was no way of redeeming herself after that in the eyes of the fandom. It's only nowadays that I see people appreciating her more and more.

Indeed, yes. But, understanding emotions, even if he can't emulate them, is part of community. It's one of the biggest downsides to In Theory. There's not community; there's people launching platitudes at Data and then they are surprised he fails.

Yup. It's a general thing with him, not just in this episode, and a general thing with TNG as well. The characters always throw things around like "all humans do this and that, so please, try to be like this too" when that's simply a way too broad generalization (Crusher in particular is a fan of this approach, which is why I don't like her and have never liked her, I finally figured this out a little while ago, I never could put my finger on why I disliked her so strongly from the first time I saw her interact with someone). This sort of thing really irks me about TNG these days. It often lacks... nuances. Particularly when it comes to characters who look for advice or guidance.

If someone had simply told Data "you're probably on the autism spectrum in human terms and that's completely fine, there are lots of humans on that spectrum, talk to one or more of them, they will have better advice than me", the whole "Data and relationships" thing would have turned out very differently.

 

[fireproof78]

If someone had simply told Data "you're probably on the autism spectrum in human terms and that's completely fine, there are lots of humans on that spectrum, talk to one or more of them, they will have better advice than me", the whole "Data and relationships" thing would have turned out very differently.

Well, Star Trek treats all people from different cultures as the same so why not humans?

Vulcans: Logic
Klingons: Honor
Romulans: distrust
Ferengi: greed
Humans: emotional

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Well, Star Trek treats all people from different cultures as the same so why not humans?

Vulcans: Logic
Klingons: Honor
Romulans: distrust
Ferengi: greed
Humans: emotional

Indeed... I guess I expect too much

 

[Tosk]

If someone had simply told Data "you're probably on the autism spectrum in human terms and that's completely fine, there are lots of humans on that spectrum, talk to one or more of them, they will have better advice than me", the whole "Data and relationships" thing would have turned out very differently.

And then we'd have a thread from someone really ticked off that the show compared being on the spectrum to being an emotionless android.

Data doesn't poll the population of the Enterprise for advice...he asks his friends. (One of whom does tell him to seek advice elsewhere.)

 

[SurfingtheInterweb]

This. This is why I would have preferred for Pulaski to stick around. She would have been such a great friend and advisor for Data because she just tells him how things are. No sugarcoating. He clearly appreciates that sort of thing.

I also think he could benefit from a human friend who is a lot like him. I struggle a LOT with emotions and how to express them and how to read and interpret them in others. I know, "such were the times in which TNG was written", but I just cringe whenever they all tell Data "emotions are what being human is aaaaaaall about". There are humans who are a lot like Data, who process things logically instead of emotionally. And therefore I think such a person would be good for Data as a friend. To show him that he doesn't have to emulate emotions because "that's what you need to do to be seen as human". He can just be himself.

In a romantic relationship this whole thing CAN create struggles but honestly, it's often a compatibility issue. Just because Jenna was incompatible with Data doesn't mean it's Data's fault. If he found someone who could understand and process and relate to the way his mind works, things would be perfectly fine. He would probably also see no need to write weird romantic subroutines because the other person would understand him without doing so in the first place.

yep. Data needed a hardass to be friends with. Someone blunt and direct. He and Bones would have gotten on. Odo, Spock .... The TNG cast was too (and I say this kindly) mushy.

 

[Mojochi]

do, but when Kirk (Chirs Pine) does the hammer cocking motion with his hands at the viewscreen showing the destruction of the Klingon ships, it really takes me out of the movie.
Why would a guy born in the 23rd century growing up with energy weapons like phasers act like people from our time?

They don't really use money anymore either, but I wouldn't find it odd if the thumb/fingers rubbing cash together gesture survived

 

[Alexander Corrino]

They don't really use money anymore either, but I wouldn't find it odd if the thumb/fingers rubbing cash together gesture survived

It did. IIRC Jean-Luc figures out what it means when Rex the bartender (I think, it's been a while since I've watched the episode) makes it to tell him that he needs to pay his bar bill or something. Jean-Luc repeats the gesture and is then all like "ah damn I need to remember to carry money when I come here".

 

[korblborp]

Because Prime Kirk liked antiques. Maybe he saw antique firearms or pistols.

Older than you, dude


:wink

prime kirk built a small *cannon* out of alien bamboo and some gravel XD
plus he later has several flintlock pistols in his aprtment in TSFS, who knows how long he's had them or if that's the extent of his collection.

 

[fireproof78]

prime kirk built a small *cannon* out of alien bamboo and some gravel XD
plus he later has several flintlock pistols in his aprtment in TSFS, who knows how long he's had them or if that's the extent of his collection.

I was referring to Kelvin Kirk's possible familiarity

 

[Farscape One]

It did. IIRC Jean-Luc figures out what it means when Rex the bartender (I think, it's been a while since I've watched the episode) makes it to tell him that he needs to pay his bar bill or something. Jean-Luc repeats the gesture and is then all like "ah damn I need to remember to carry money when I come here".

Very true.

To be fair, though, it did take Picard a few seconds to rember it meant 'money'. And he at least knows stuff about the era... not everyone knows as much about the 20th century, outside of perhaps facts and dates. Things like that gesture are little cultural bits that may be, overall, forgotten by the majority of people.