Would you support the Federation's expansionist policies?

[MarcKle1964]

Thing is tho, Trek depicts such territories as two-d like a map. The galaxy is 100,000 light years across, but only 1,000 ly thick when not taking the central bulge into account. Any space faring civilization would be expanding vertically as well as horizontally. What if they're expanding over and under each other like tectonic plates?

A holographic map where territories are portrayed in 3D and said territories are superimposed over, under and around each other would be vastly more accurate (and very cool to depict) than a flat map.

 

[XCV330]

Thing is tho, Trek depicts such territories as two-d like a map. The galaxy is 100,000 light years across, but only 1,000 ly thick when not taking the central bulge into account. Any space faring civilization would be expanding vertically as well as horizontally. What if they're expanding over and under each other like tectonic plates?

A holographic map where territories are portrayed in 3D and said territories are superimposed over, under and around each other would be vastly more accurate (and very cool to depict) than a flat map.

Star Trek treats the z axis of the universe like it's paper thin. They had the USS Valiant, a Warp 1 ship, able to hit the Galaxtic Barrier in 2065. It's dumb, but that's the world building they left us with and so we're stuck with it.


And no, I don't think the UFP should expand. They should be concentrating on improving the lives of the people within the federation. They should be building large space structures like Yorktown and Dyson spheres, enjoy life and building up their defensive capabilities so Earth doesn't have a single ship in drydock every time a whale probe, Nero, or V'ger comes knocking. In time perhaps go entirely virtual, building a series of interconnected holographic universes within their own aegis so that economies of scale can have the Federation developing the equivalent of millenia while outside barbarian nations continue to slowly blood along. And just genocide the Borg before they get the same idea.

 

[Shawnster]

And no, I don't think the UFP should expand...

Maybe r should address why the Federation is expanding. Does it need more room for people to live? Does it need more resources?

If resources are plentiful and there is more than enough room for people to live, then what is driving all these people to start new colonies? In this post scarcity society, why are there still people mining limited resources?

 

[Farscape One]

There's still plenty of resources that can't be replicated. Dilithium, for instance.

As far as reasons why people would start their own colony, it may simply be exactly that. It is their colony that they are creating. There's something to be said about building something yourself on your own.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

And no, I don't think the UFP should expand.

People should be free to expand as they see fit as long as they don't do it in a way that causes unnecessary conflict.
The Universe is VAST, there's plenty of room to expand.

They should be concentrating on improving the lives of the people within the federation.

That's everybody's job, it's not just the government, everybody should be helping on improving the quality of life of everybody else.

They should be building large space structures like Yorktown and Dyson spheres,

YorkTown just seems so ostentatious, I'd rather go for various size Ring Worlds.

Dyson Sphere's are too resource intensive, and the crew of the Enterprise-D found a existing Dyson Sphere that is built, just TerraForm the surface of it and adopt it / use it.
Turn it into the Noah's Ark / UN of the Federation.

Also adjust the Star so that it's more stable, there are plenty of Star mining techniques that they can do to make it a more Stable Star.

enjoy life and building up their defensive capabilities so Earth doesn't have a single ship in drydock every time a whale probe, Nero, or V'ger comes knocking.

I concur, the UFP is woefully under defended, especially given how many planets it has, how many citizens there are of the UFP.

In time perhaps go entirely virtual, building a series of interconnected holographic universes within their own aegis so that economies of scale can have the Federation developing the equivalent of millenia while outside barbarian nations continue to slowly blood along. And just genocide the Borg before they get the same idea.

Why? The existing Borg should get dismantled and any form of "Cybernetic Hive Mind" should be eradicated & blocked.

If resources are plentiful and there is more than enough room for people to live, then what is driving all these people to start new colonies? In this post scarcity society, why are there still people mining limited resources?

All resources are finite, you can convert one element to another, but that usually consumes energy to do so.
Sometimes you can gain energy like in fusion, but that's a different matter all together.

 

[Farscape One]

Regarding the Dyson Sphere...

That sun within it was nearing the end if its life, so the best the Federation can do is study the thing before that star blows.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Regarding the Dyson Sphere...

That sun within it was nearing the end if its life, so the best the Federation can do is study the thing before that star blows.

Relics (episode)

The Enterprise discovers a ship that crashed on a Dyson sphere more than seventy-five years prior with a single survivor suspended in the transporter buffer: Captain Montgomery Scott. The USS Enterprise-D picks up a distress call from the USS Jenolan, a transport vessel that has been missing for...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

The start wasn't near the end of it's life, but it was "UnStable"

the star is highly unstable, expelling matter and severe bursts of radiation. This explains why the inhabitants of the sphere must have abandoned it. The android postulates that the Enterprise may have unintentionally triggered an automated series of piloting beams which would guide a starship inside the sphere – this would explain why the Enterprise was pulled inside without anyone occupying the sphere. When the star emits a solar flare, the Enterprise raises her shields accordingly but Worf reports that the vessel's shields are only operating at 23%. To worsen matters, the solar flares are becoming larger and within three hours, the Enterprise's shields will no longer be enough to protect the starship from harm.

As to why it's "UnStable", you would need a Astronomer specializing in Stars to understand what to do to fix it.

There are various forms of Stellar Engineering like "Star Lifting" that you could perform on the star to fix it and to prevent it from being so "UnStable".

 

[XCV330]

Regarding the Dyson Sphere...

That sun within it was nearing the end if its life, so the best the Federation can do is study the thing before that star blows.

that never made any sense. why would anyone building a dyson sphere bother to use a star that wasn't going to last. build it over a red dwarf or white dwarf and practically ride out most of the universe up into the black hole era. there's issues with flares but those can be addressed.

 

[Farscape One]

Relics (episode)

The Enterprise discovers a ship that crashed on a Dyson sphere more than seventy-five years prior with a single survivor suspended in the transporter buffer: Captain Montgomery Scott. The USS Enterprise-D picks up a distress call from the USS Jenolan, a transport vessel that has been missing for...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

The start wasn't near the end of it's life, but it was "UnStable"

As to why it's "UnStable", you would need a Astronomer specializing in Stars to understand what to do to fix it.

There are various forms of Stellar Engineering like "Star Lifting" that you could perform on the star to fix it and to prevent it from being so "UnStable".

That's right, it was unstable. My point still stands... they would still need to study the star before they can even attempt trying to fix it. And the Federation hasn't been able to do that yet.

(In "Half a Life", that star revival failed, and it was also not the Federation's work... they were just assisting with the carfying out of said experiment. And I don't count "SECOND SIGHT", where Seyetik revived a dead star. That's different than an unstable one.)

that never made any sense. why would anyone building a dyson sphere bother to use a star that wasn't going to last. build it over a red dwarf or white dwarf and practically ride out most of the universe up into the black hole era. there's issues with flares but those can be addressed.

It's likely the inhabitants were there for a LONG time.

One possibility is the inhabitants did something to that star that made it unstable. (Either by accident or maybe a nefarious person or group inside.) Maybe even an enemy of whoever lived there infiltrated the Dyson Sphere, and shot something into the star that made it unstable.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

That's right, it was unstable. My point still stands... they would still need to study the star before they can even attempt trying to fix it. And the Federation hasn't been able to do that yet.

(In "Half a Life", that star revival failed, and it was also not the Federation's work... they were just assisting with the carfying out of said experiment. And I don't count "SECOND SIGHT", where Seyetik revived a dead star. That's different than an unstable one.)





It's likely the inhabitants were there for a LONG time.

One possibility is the inhabitants did something to that star that made it unstable. (Either by accident or maybe a nefarious person or group inside.) Maybe even an enemy of whoever lived there infiltrated the Dyson Sphere, and shot something into the star that made it unstable.

Regardless of how it got into that state, they need to do some serious "Star Surgery" to make it more stable if they plan on living within the Dyson Sphere.

 

[Farscape One]

Regardless of how it got into that state, they need to do some serious "Star Surgery" to make it more stable if they plan on living within the Dyson Sphere.

Yes, and my point was the Federation may not have the ability to do that. Which means studying the sphere itself while they can is the only option left.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Star Lifting should be do-able with technology levels only slightly ahead of where we are today according to Isaac Arthur.

Spoiler: Isaac Arthur - Star Lifting

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With the UFP's level of technology, that should be "Child's Play".

 

[Shawnster]

YorkTown just seems so ostentatious, I'd rather go for various size Ring Worlds.

A Ring World is way more ostentatious than Yorktown Station m

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

A Ring World is way more ostentatious than Yorktown Station m

A pastoral Classic Sci-Fi Ring World vs a Sphere that has habitatable surfaces all over the place like M.C. Escher.

One looks WAY more advanced & out there than the other.

The Ring World is "Quaint" due to it's "Old Tech" simplicity.

Spin Gravity, how cute compared to Grav Plating.

 

[XCV330]

A pastoral Classic Sci-Fi Ring World vs a Sphere that has habitatable surfaces all over the place like M.C. Escher.

One looks WAY more advanced & out there than the other.

The Ring World is "Quaint" due to it's "Old Tech" simplicity.

Spin Gravity, how cute compared to Grav Plating.

And until very recently no one had the technology to really show inside-out worlds in a way that did them credit. Interstellar finally did it with an O'Neil cylinder though they didn't spend a long time dealing with it.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

And until very recently no one had the technology to really show inside-out worlds in a way that did them credit. Interstellar finally did it with an O'Neil cylinder though they didn't spend a long time dealing with it.

Gundam has animated O'Neil Cylinders for quite some time.

 

[publiusr]

I seem to remember reading about how some worlds may have oxygen atmospheres even if there is no life. Hycean worlds with water breaking down and hydrogen escaping.

There, you actually *want* to put a lot of CO2 because you need it for biomass.

The polar opposite of what you see in AVATAR.

Habitable but lifeless?

Open season.

In order for life to begin, it needs to be a hellscape—churning up chemicals—then things can calm down.

A planet that has had a violent-free existence will likely be barren.

Complex life could live there, but not in Earth’s Hadean phase. Simple life needs cosmic violence—complex life needs quiet conditions.

 

[Enterprise1701]

that never made any sense. why would anyone building a dyson sphere bother to use a star that wasn't going to last. build it over a red dwarf or white dwarf and practically ride out most of the universe up into the black hole era. there's issues with flares but those can be addressed.

Well, I don't know if it would be a fun way to write the story, but maybe the builders were fools like the geniuses who decided to farm water-intensive crops in drought-prone Southern California.