Damn. Did you not sleep during this period or something?
Yeah, I also struggled to get through Heretics and Chapterhouse.
Dune [Part 3] Messiah 2027 (28, 29, 30...)
- Thread starter wayoung
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Honestly, anything after God Emperor were cash grabs by Herbert himself because his family needed money for medical treatments.
Agree with you too, God Emperor could have been the end of the whole saga. The next books seemed "lighter" in tone, more like Sci Fi action adventure with Miles Teg basically gaining superpowers, the Honored Matres being even more powerful than the Bene Genesserit and much more sex.
My main anticipation for Dune 3 is how Villeneuve intends to resolve the plot given how much he veered off story with Chani and Paul. I'm also especially looking forward how Villeneueve will destroy the reputation of Paul and what the reaction of the general audience will be like because i have seen tons of reaction videos and almost nobody picked up on the subtlety of Paul not being a hero and bad things about to happen, most of them actually cheered like Stilgar.
That will be a rude awakening for many and it'll be interesting to see how it impacts the general reception of the movie but i have faith in Villeneuve to write a good script that ties this all together for non-readers of the books.
Well...you can't really blame them, because nearly everyone missed that in the original Dune novel too because Frank Herbert honestly didn't do a good job conveying that. He wrote Dune Messiah specifically BECAUSE he realized he hadn't made it clear enough.
Sure but when you use the term Jihad and you show Paul having visions of a genocide and despairing over it one could get a clue. However this was in the first movie and in between were years so it's understandable that people forget. I figure once the third movie is out and completes Paul's story one might look at the trilogy as a whole and see the subtleties better.
It wouldn't surprise me if folks misinterpreted those scenes as Paul fighting AGAINST a future Jihad, not causing it.
There were definitely visions in the second film as well, but maybe they didn't make the point as clearly.
Could be due to superficial assumptions that the hero of the story will fight against something evil and everybody knows that the term Jihad is not a good thing and going by the first movie they are right as Paul is horrified by his vision. As i said i believe not many pick up on the subtleties but as the second movie progresses Paul, despite refusing at first, fully gives into the prophecy and actively uses the myth the Bene Gesserit have created to control the Fremen to do his bidding, which explains Chani's and Jessica's opposite reactions.
As i said this will be one hell of an awakening and realization with the third movie for many.
As i said this will be one hell of an awakening and realization with the third movie for many.
No they didn't because they show the Empire and Shaddam to be evil characters, after all he orchestrated and supported the death of Leto Atreides so punishment should be coming. Right now with only the two movies out the crucial last act is missing to complete the story and message.
You can both be the cause of something and fight against it at the same time. I'm curious to see how V does Children and God-Emperor myself.
Think it took me about 45 hours to read the whole saga. I'd read Dune before and my best friend gave me a copy of Messiah back in high school and that was all I'd read. I wanted to get an understanding of the entire series with which to compare to the new stuff. I liked Dune Prophecy, or "Nunz with powers" as I called it.
He won't unfortunately. He stated he's done after Messiah.
Though as the saying goes never say never. Who knows if it won't scratch him after a few years again and he picks it up.
Messiah finishes Paul's story, so I understand why he'd want to stop there.
It sort of ends things for Paul, but his story doesn't exactly end until Children of Dune IMO.
Therein lies the central paradox for Paul - ‘does the ends justify the means?’
In knowing all possible outcomes, choices and timelines through his prescience, can Paul choose and live with the burden of becoming the very thing he detests most, and is terrified of - a necessity tyrant unleashing horrors unimaginable upon the known galaxy - in order to save humanity?
The tradeoff: highest possible human cost, yet the highest possible human stakes?
I find Paul’s plight fascinating, frightening and uncomfortably disconcerting - but also one of the reasons I love God Emperor as a book, in terms of the ramifications of Paul’s actions - direct or otherwise.
In knowing all possible outcomes, choices and timelines through his prescience, can Paul choose and live with the burden of becoming the very thing he detests most, and is terrified of - a necessity tyrant unleashing horrors unimaginable upon the known galaxy - in order to save humanity?
The tradeoff: highest possible human cost, yet the highest possible human stakes?
I find Paul’s plight fascinating, frightening and uncomfortably disconcerting - but also one of the reasons I love God Emperor as a book, in terms of the ramifications of Paul’s actions - direct or otherwise.
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It is isn't it. Paul couldn't do it so his son had to step in.
When the very survival of your species is at stakes some people ( if you can call Leto II people at all after a certain point) are able to just take a spreadsheet and make cold calculations. I didn't understand God Emperor for a long time, might be also due to the fact that i was a young teenager back then when i read it.
However it ultimately turns out, they're going to have Chani take an active role in her fate. With Paul refusing to have a child with Irulan, and since she's otherwise nowhere to be found in the novel, I'm thinking Jessica is going to briefly show up from Caladan, track Chani down in the desert, and ultimately convince her to reunite with Paul for the greater good (and to save the all-important Atreides bloodline for the Sisterhood), even knowing it will lead to her death if she does.
As for destroying Paul's reputation... depends on if Legendary's willing to go for an R rating, and how hard an R at that. This is going to have to be 'show, not tell.' We're going to have to see the Fremen offworld (and I mean actually see, no cutting away like Star Wars) doing some absolutely diabolical war crime *@#% at a level that will undoubtedly draw parallels to current/recent real world events. And then drop the 61 billion figure (add a zero?) and make it crystal clear, beyond dispute, that Paul not only knows about all these events but signed off on them. And do that at the very start of the film, as if to challenge the audience: "You sure you want to see how all this ends? We'll tell you right here and now, there's no happy ending... at least, not one where Paul lives."
They will have to, doesn't even need an R rating necessarily. The first 2 movies were violent enough to get the point across how evil Harkonnen are for example, so i think Villeneuve wouldn't need it to show how hard R the Fremen can go in the Jihad.
Depending how good the writing of Villeneuve is ( and i have 100% faith he can pull it off) the movie will split the audience - some will hate seeing Paul turn into the villain and others will understand the message. Either way the movie will be very controversial because it doesn't happen too often that a franchise kills its central hero so to speak.
I will also be curious if Villeneuve sets up Children of Dune in his movie for a potential sequel that someone else can make. I'm sure the studio wouldn't mind given how successful the movies are.
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