Dune [Part 3] Messiah 2027 (28, 29, 30...)

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Well, I'd guess Paul and Chani have to get back together for the sake of the franchise. The box office receipts must flow. Perhaps his vision shows him that the fate of humankind will be much worse if Leto and Ghanima are never born? He must sacrifice more than himself - the book also details this. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't is the tragedy of his story. Presumably, movie Chani has headed off to join Fremen who aren't Muad'Dib true-believers. Winning all of them over could be tricky.

 

[Nightowl1701]

I’m wondering who is going to be the matchmaker to get him and Chani back together. In the book, Jessica was back on Caladan and Irulan had been ordered to kill Chani. So is Irulan going to defy the Bene Gesserit going “If I can’t make him happy, I’ll give him someone who will”? Or will Jessica be borderline evil manipulator again?

Or… will Chani get a vision of the future? Will she accept a tragic fate for the greater good of mankind?

 

[wayoung]

I’m wondering who is going to be the matchmaker to get him and Chani back together. In the book, Jessica was back on Caladan and Irulan had been ordered to kill Chani. So is Irulan going to defy the Bene Gesserit going “If I can’t make him happy, I’ll give him someone who will”? Or will Jessica be borderline evil manipulator again?

Or… will Chani get a vision of the future? Will she accept a tragic fate for the greater good of mankind?

See, this is why I think there will be a spin off of some sort following Chani's desert adventures - either a movie filling the gaps or another HBO show - that ends with her heading back to Arrakeen.

Either that or their reconciliation will be a new sub plot in Messiah.

Irulan can't defy the BG until after Messiah, or Messiah doesn't really work since she's a lynchpin of the conspiracy.

Although in the books she's just a dumb blonde useful only for being the Emperor's oldest daughter, whereas now she's Mohaims best student.

Or she's still dumb (by BG standards)and Mohaim is manipulating her by saying that

 

[vandevere]

See, this is why I think there will be a spin off of some sort following Chani's desert adventures - either a movie filling the gaps or another HBO show - that ends with her heading back to Arrakeen.

Either that or their reconciliation will be a new sub plot in Messiah.

Irulan can't defy the BG until after Messiah, or Messiah doesn't really work since she's a lynchpin of the conspiracy.

Although in the books she's just a dumb blonde useful only for being the Emperor's oldest daughter, whereas now she's Mohaims best student.

Or she's still dumb (by BG standards)and Mohaim is manipulating her by saying that

I wouldn't put it past Mohiam to manipulate Irulan. She was doing that to Irulan all through the book Messiah...

 

[Marc]

whereas now she's Mohaims best student.

Wasn't that Jessica in the books?

 

[wayoung]

Humble Bundles book bundle of the week is the BH&KJA dune novels. $24 CAD for 17, in Epub format. Pretty good deal if you enjoy their books. Not my cup of tea, but I know others here are fans. And unlike the Shogun bundle last week, they didn't cut the book in half and make you upgrade the bundle to get the second half

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/dune-universe-collection-tor-books

 

[wayoung]

First trailer for Prophecy just dropped. I've been pretty wary about this since it was first announced to be based on the BH&KJA novels (at one point the Herbert Partnership had been pushing for a movie on their books before a remake of Dune, kinda seems like this was a quid pro quo, we get movie Dune, you get TV series) and then Villeneuve dropped/reduced his involvement, & it went through so many show runners. At this point I dunno if it is even based on the books or is a wholly original storyline (which would be a plus in my mind). Would like clarification on that.

Watching the teaser, I dunno, it feels off. Cheap, which, of course, comparing it to the movies. The cast is impressive.

I just get a "Contenintal: From The World of John Wick" vibe from the whole thing. An imitation. But it's less than two minutes so can't judge the series on that.

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[Set Harth]

I want nothing to do with anything based on Pinky and the Brain.

 

[Noname Given]

First trailer for Prophecy just dropped. I've been pretty wary about this since it was first announced to be based on the BH&KJA novels (at one point the Herbert Partnership had been pushing for a movie on their books before a remake of Dune, kinda seems like this was a quid pro quo, we get movie Dune, you get TV series) and then Villeneuve dropped/reduced his involvement, & it went through so many show runners. At this point I dunno if it is even based on the books or is a wholly original storyline (which would be a plus in my mind). Would like clarification on that.

Watching the teaser, I dunno, it feels off. Cheap, which, of course, comparing it to the movies. The cast is impressive.

I just get a "Contenintal: From The World of John Wick" vibe from the whole thing. An imitation. But it's less than two minutes so can't judge the series on that.

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So...Game of Dunes.

 

[fireproof78]

First trailer for Prophecy just dropped. I've been pretty wary about this since it was first announced to be based on the BH&KJA novels (at one point the Herbert Partnership had been pushing for a movie on their books before a remake of Dune, kinda seems like this was a quid pro quo, we get movie Dune, you get TV series) and then Villeneuve dropped/reduced his involvement, & it went through so many show runners. At this point I dunno if it is even based on the books or is a wholly original storyline (which would be a plus in my mind). Would like clarification on that.

Watching the teaser, I dunno, it feels off. Cheap, which, of course, comparing it to the movies. The cast is impressive.

I just get a "Contenintal: From The World of John Wick" vibe from the whole thing. An imitation. But it's less than two minutes so can't judge the series on that.

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Obviously, trailers are click bait marketing and such but there is the strong potential for dramatic conflict with the idea of split loyalties. I personally am intrigued, but then, I don't harbor the resentment towards Brian and Kevin as others do.

 

[FPAlpha]

I thought the ending of the movie was very clear. My teenagers who have never read the book commented on it afterward about how there were no "heroes" in the movie and the ending was very dark.

The writing of Chani's character was also very well done and provided the perfect foil for Paul. For everything the movie altered and left out, I think that it improved on the story in many ways.

Just a few days ago i saw some reaction videos for Dune 2 and please don't hang me for the following - they also had 2 middle eastern men who, judging by their reaction, would have fit right in there with the Fremen and Stilgar. Completely missed the point that religious fanaticism is wrong.

I have faith in Villeneuve to really drive the point home in Messiah - it probably won't play out exactly like the book given that he veered away quite a bit from Dune itself with how he has written certain characters like Chani and ommitted/changed some events but i believe the audience is smarter than Hollywood believes and even blockbusters can have engaging and thought provoking stories, it doesn't have to be 'splosions all the time.

 

[Commander Troi]

Looks like an origin for the Bene Gesserit, which could be interesting.

 

[fireproof78]

they also had 2 middle eastern men who, judging by their reaction, would have fit right in there with the Fremen and Stilgar. Completely missed the point that religious fanaticism is wrong.

I mean, you have to show the consequences first and see if they think those consequences are worth the fanaticism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't see the consequences in Dune yet.

 

[FPAlpha]

I mean, you have to show the consequences first and see if they think those consequences are worth the fanaticism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't see the consequences in Dune yet.

To be honest i don't need to see consequences with phrases like Holy War and "billions of dead in my father's name" from the previous movie. It is very evident what's about to happen and if you watched Dune 2 carefully you should get it.

However i think Messiah will be a rude shock because i believe we will see the consequences and the Atreides name become a curse throughout the known universe.

One thing i really want to see is a scene from the book that is being talked about when Fremen wake up to the genocide they are performing, especially the one Fremen who is able to take a bath in the sea on a planet, which shocks him out of his fanaticism. That could be a powerful scene and general idea to show that it is never too late to turn it around.

 

[fireproof78]

To be honest i don't need to see consequences with phrases like Holy War and "billions of dead in my father's name" from the previous movie. It is very evident what's about to happen and if you watched Dune 2 carefully you should get it.

You might not. Others certainly might.

However i think Messiah will be a rude shock because i believe we will see the consequences and the Atreides name become a curse throughout the known universe.

I would hope so, yes.

One thing i really want to see is a scene from the book that is being talked about when Fremen wake up to the genocide they are performing, especially the one Fremen who is able to take a bath in the sea on a planet, which shocks him out of his fanaticism. That could be a powerful scene and general idea to show that it is never too late to turn it around.

Again, I hope so. One of the difficulties with Dune is the framing device. The Fremen are shown as the indiginous people, and pushing out the invaders. That's always framed as a positive in many stories, so having to see, not just imagine, but seriously see the consequences is going to carry a lot more weight than just going "Eh, genocide in my name." It's not that simple.

 

[wayoung]

Its the competing themes as well.

The violence and death from religious fanaticism inspired by Paul and Leto II is abhorrent, but then Paul is really just riding a wild animal, trying his best not to fall off, and, when he can, trying to guide it away from the most destructive path, hating himself the entire time because the animal has an Atreides banner attached to the saddle.

Meanwhile, Leto II openly embraces everything as the end justifies the means. He's saving humanity and unlike others who think that and use it as an excuse, he actually is. Is he still an evil tyrant? Absolutely. But was he wrong to be one, is the religious fanaticism in is name wrong, when it saves all of humanity from extinction?

It's the nature of the series, there are no easy answers.

 

[wayoung]

So...Game of Dunes.

Nice.

I want nothing to do with anything based on Pinky and the Brain.

I'm not sure it actually is anymore? It's kinda nebulous.

 

[fireproof78]

Its the competing themes as well.

The violence and death from religious fanaticism inspired by Paul and Leto II is abhorrent, but then Paul is really just riding a wild animal, trying his best not to fall off, and, when he can, trying to guide it away from the most destructive path, hating himself the entire time because the animal has an Atreides banner attached to the saddle.

Meanwhile, Leto II openly embraces everything as the end justifies the means. He's saving humanity and unlike others who think that and use it as an excuse, he actually is. Is he still an evil tyrant? Absolutely. But was he wrong to be one, is the religious fanaticism in is name wrong, when it saves all of humanity from extinction?

It's the nature of the series, there are no easy answers.

Agreed, and I think that's the more powerful aspect. Too often, we humans look at behaviors and go, "Oh, I would never do that!" and think that all people should agree with us. Sadly, that isn't always the case and requires some harsh lessons to actually learn that some behaviors don't work.

 

[Set Harth]

To be honest i don't need to see consequences with phrases like Holy War and "billions of dead in my father's name" from the previous movie. It is very evident what's about to happen and if you watched Dune 2 carefully you should get it.

However i think Messiah will be a rude shock because i believe we will see the consequences and the Atreides name become a curse throughout the known universe.

One thing i really want to see is a scene from the book that is being talked about when Fremen wake up to the genocide they are performing, especially the one Fremen who is able to take a bath in the sea on a planet, which shocks him out of his fanaticism. That could be a powerful scene and general idea to show that it is never too late to turn it around.

"And did you find your sea?"

"It healed me of jihad."

 

[The Nth Doctor]

First trailer for Prophecy just dropped. I've been pretty wary about this since it was first announced to be based on the BH&KJA novels (at one point the Herbert Partnership had been pushing for a movie on their books before a remake of Dune, kinda seems like this was a quid pro quo, we get movie Dune, you get TV series) and then Villeneuve dropped/reduced his involvement, & it went through so many show runners. At this point I dunno if it is even based on the books or is a wholly original storyline (which would be a plus in my mind). Would like clarification on that.

Watching the teaser, I dunno, it feels off. Cheap, which, of course, comparing it to the movies. The cast is impressive.

I just get a "Contenintal: From The World of John Wick" vibe from the whole thing. An imitation. But it's less than two minutes so can't judge the series on that.

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It looks visually impressive and as I've noted before, I love the casting. I'm willing to give it shot, but I also remain hesitant until we know more about the writing content.