What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[137th Gebirg]

The implicit stench of Neelix technically being a pedo with Kes despite the actress' actual "human age" was something difficult to shake. Neelix's less-than-admirable behavior throughout the series, especially as it applied to Kes and his several over-the-top conflicts with the other members of the crew should have earned him a one-way ticket out the airlock early on. This would have also had the pleasant byproduct of preventing the Tuvix incident from ever having occurred in the first place.

 

[Nyotarules]

The implicit stench of Neelix technically being a pedo with Kes despite the actress' actual "human age" was something difficult to shake. Neelix's less-than-admirable behavior throughout the series, especially as it applied to Kes and his several over-the-top conflicts with the other members of the crew should have earned him a one-way ticket out the airlock early on. This would have also had the pleasant byproduct of preventing the Tuvix incident from ever having occurred in the first place.

Neelix being a pedo is harsh. Kes was not a two year old human child, she was a two year old Ocampan woman. Besides the show never said Ocampan years matched Sol years.

 

[Newt]

Not sure if this counts as controversial but I really dislike the mirror universe stuff. Alternative realities sure but the mirror stuff doesn't do much for me.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Neelix being a pedo is harsh, Kes was not a two year old human child, she was a two year old Ocampan woman. Besides the show never said Ocampan years matched Sol years.

I get what the intent was - an attempt and interesting world-building in an unknown region of space. I'm just not sure it came off as well as it could have, though.

Did they get into how and why Ocampans develop and mature so quickly? I honestly can't remember. If they glossed over and/or hand waved it away, the audience generally has no choice but to project present-day societal sensibilities on the narrative. Then we get back into the "ick" factor. We're just supposed to assume that Ocampan society is uniquely suited for this biological uniqueness and move on, I guess.

At the end of the day, it's either sloppy writing or they didn't bother to take such ramifications into account. To muddy the waters further, Jennifer Lien did play the character as a bit of a child-like innocent early on, IIRC, which ramped up the "ick" by an order of magnitude with Neelix fawning over her all the time. I don't like it from any angle, if I'm honest. My pre-teen daughter is technically older than Kes was and I wouldn't ever want that sleezeball hanging around her like that all the time. Am I projecting? Yeah, probably. Even before I was a dad I thought it was really wrong and now that I am a father of a young girl it makes my skin crawl. That's my prerogative - one could even say instinct.

 

[at Quark's]

^I've never interpreted Neelix to be a pedo. Within the context of her species, Kes was an adult, even if only barely. That she's only 2 years old in absolute terms doesn't matter.

I'd rather think comparing it to a 45-year-old having a relation with an 18-year-old girl would be closer. Creepy, but no felony.

 

[Tallguy]

Did they get into how and why Ocampans develop and mature so quickly? I honestly can't remember. If they glossed over and/or hand waved it away, the audience generally has no choice but to project present-day societal sensibilities on the narrative.

Why? She doesn't look two. She doesn't act two. By that standard we would be upset that she and Neelix have a romance but we wouldn't bat an eye if she started screaming at the captain when she was told no and pooping in the hallway.

Now Angel and Buffy...

 

[Shawnster]

At the end of the day, it's either sloppy writing or they didn't bother to take such ramifications into account. T

It was bad writing. They didn't think everything through. The Ocampa only giving birth once is a perfect example. Such a civilization would die our quickly. It's impossible to maintain a species if every generation is half of the previous generation.

 

[Nyotarules]

It was bad writing. They didn't think everything through. The Ocampa only giving birth once is a perfect example. Such a civilization would die our quickly. It's impossible to maintain a species if every generation is half of the previous generation.

Trek world building was not the best, too many colonies had small populations, especially the humans ones.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Trek world building was not the best, too many colonies had small populations, especially the humans ones.

But isn't that kind of mirroring the "Frontier Spirit"?

Small groups would venture out on their own to found colonies out in the wilds of the "Old West Earth Frontier in the US"?

Now they're doing it in the form of Space Colonization.

Granted some of the people doing that didn't do so with the largest of populations, but that mirrors IRL.

Remember what happened to Roanoke Colony.
Bad stuff might happen and they all disappear for mysterious reasons.

Many colonies won't grow big or stay relatively small, but some will make it huge and become real cities, to eventually colonizing the entire planet.

It's just a matter of a bit of luck & planning.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

The Ocampa only giving birth once is a perfect example.

Unless they usually have multiple births, and a single child birth is abnormal. Kes and Linnis having one baby each may be because single birth babies have a greater chance of producing single births when they grow up, or because the child is part human.

 

[fireproof78]

It was bad writing. They didn't think everything through. The Ocampa only giving birth once is a perfect example. Such a civilization would die our quickly. It's impossible to maintain a species if every generation is half of the previous generation.

Which is why I think they were a failed experiment that couldn't be sustained. But, could operate enough that a small enclave formed and survived.

 

[Shawnster]

Unless they usually have multiple births, and a single child birth is abnormal. Kes and Linnis having one baby each may be because single birth babies have a greater chance of producing single births when they grow up, or because the child is part human.

They don't. The Voyager episode "Elogium" established as a species Ocampa of the nly go through 1 short fertility cycle.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They don't. The Voyager episode "Elogium" established as a species Ocampa of the nly go through 1 short fertility cycle.

I sometime get the impression the Ocampa were genetically engineered by another species. Not really into Voyager, though. So, maybe that was a thing?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

They don't. The Voyager episode "Elogium" established as a species Ocampa of the nly go through 1 short fertility cycle.

I meant multiple babies per birth. Twins, triplets, etc

 

[at Quark's]

I meant multiple babies per birth. Twins, triplets, etc

That would be a solution.

But in Elogium, Kes speaks in singular, 'a child', which to me is an indication multiple children aren't the expectation.

 

[Farscape One]

One does wonder if the Caretaker's species did more damage to the Ocampa than we think. Obviously, whatever they did devastated their the planet's environment. But could they have been responsible for the elogium being only 1 child birth? The Caretaker said they owed a debt that can never be repaid, and doing what they did to their world certainly qualifies.

But... the species could still survive, or be moved to another world. What if the damage was deeper... that debt being they essentially doomed them to a slow crawl to extinction?

Suspiria did help that station of Ocampa live longer lives... 20 years at least. If their lifespan did increase, it's possible they could have the elogium more than once. While Kes did say it happens only once, could the Ocampa have lost records or memory of multiple elogiums from long ago? We are talking 1,000 years or so.

 

[cooleddie74]

A fine video that answers some of my nagging questions about the Bryan Fuller starship look established in DSC, and while a lot of the content in this is non-canon it's plenty good enough to fill in the blanks in my head canon.

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[Nyotarules]

But isn't that kind of mirroring the "Frontier Spirit"?

Small groups would venture out on their own to found colonies out in the wilds of the "Old West Earth Frontier in the US"?

Now they're doing it in the form of Space Colonization.

Granted some of the people doing that didn't do so with the largest of populations, but that mirrors IRL.

Remember what happened to Roanoke Colony.
Bad stuff might happen and they all disappear for mysterious reasons.

Many colonies won't grow big or stay relatively small, but some will make it huge and become real cities, to eventually colonizing the entire planet.

It's just a matter of a bit of luck & planning.

I do not share the same romantic view of colonisation as US history portrays. Apart from the Maquis, at least most of the Trek colonies did not use the Americas/ANZAC methods i.e remove indigneous, claim land, build town

I have never heard of Roanoke Colony.

 

[Farscape One]

I do not share the same romantic view of colonisation as US history portrays. Apart from the Maquis, at least most of the Trek colonies did not use the Americas/ANZAC methods i.e remove indigneous, claim land, build town

I have never heard of Roanoke Colony.

It was a colony in the late 16th century, located in what is now North Carolina.

About 120 people were there, but they all disappeared. The word "Croatoan" was carved on a big tree. As far as I know, their fate is still a mystery.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I do not share the same romantic view of colonisation as US history portrays. Apart from the Maquis, at least most of the Trek colonies did not use the Americas/ANZAC methods i.e remove indigneous, claim land, build town

The future doesn't have to repeat the past.

There are plenty of empty worlds with M-Class Planets in the Trek Universe.

So the colonists can expand as they see fit & claim planets for themselves & build new civilizations.